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Hotchkiss EBR surviving T34 shot


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Fizrug #1 Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:55 PM

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Hello,

 

I had a game where the new wheeled vehicles survived a shot form one of the largest guns to the side:

http://wotreplays.eu...dorf-fizrug-t34

 

At 11:20 the Hotchkiss EBR was shot

The T34 has pen of 248
with -25% rng: 186
it should overmatch 62mm

Hotchkiss EBR has less than 62 everywhere

Should there be a bounce?

 

I am cool with 11:32 shot hitting the wheel and not doing any damage, but 11:20 shot "Ricochet" ?

 

Regards

Fizrug



OreH75 #2 Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:59 PM

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RNG decided it was not his time to die.... 

 



signal11th #3 Posted 08 February 2019 - 11:59 PM

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View PostFizrug, on 08 February 2019 - 10:55 PM, said:

Hello,

 

I had a game where the new wheeled vehicles survived a shot form one of the largest guns to the side:

http://wotreplays.eu...dorf-fizrug-t34

 

At 11:20 the Hotchkiss EBR was shot

The T34 has pen of 248
with -25% rng: 186
it should overmatch 62mm

Hotchkiss EBR has less than 62 everywhere

Should there be a bounce?

 

I am cool with 11:32 shot hitting the wheel and not doing any damage, but 11:20 shot "Ricochet" ?

 

Regards

Fizrug

 

wouldnt worry I shot as tier 9 one three times with an amx30 and bounced all three shots... it had magic wheels..

Fizrug #4 Posted 09 February 2019 - 12:08 AM

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View PostOreH75, on 08 February 2019 - 11:59 PM, said:

RNG decided it was not his time to die.... 

 

 

RNG may decide it is not time to die and reduce my pen by 25% ... but here should be no technical reason why 62 should not pen 20 ... it is coding issue

23:18 Added after 9 minutes

View Postsignal11th, on 08 February 2019 - 11:59 PM, said:

 

wouldnt worry I shot as tier 9 one three times with an amx30 and bounced all three shots... it had magic wheels..

 

Looking at the replay it looks like I shot the mid wheel.

 

That would suggest that the wheel has 42+mm of spaced armour,

 

Don't other tanks have 20mm as spaced armour on their tracks?



XxKuzkina_MatxX #5 Posted 09 February 2019 - 12:25 AM

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Very lazy player! :)

Daedal5 #6 Posted 09 February 2019 - 12:52 AM

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So first, you got 3ple overmatch wrong. It needs to be 3 times greater caliber than the impacted armor. So to overmatch 40mm of armor you need a gun with caliber of at least 121mm (the closest in game is the 122 mm caliber)

A 120 mm gun can 3ple overmatch 39 mm of armor.

 

Second, tracks are similar to spaced armor (same as the gun barrel), but they can never ricochet and their armor value does not depend on the angle of impact. That is if a side is 80 mm + 20 mm tracks and you shoot at an angle to the sides, you first subtract the track armor value (if you do hit them, the track models can be very funky) and then you calculate the armor value at the impacted angle.

 

I do not want to watch the replay right now (and there is possibility for the shots be out of sync as what you see may not be exactly  what happens on the server) , but here is the armor model for Hotchkiss EBR https://gamemodels3d...ks/vehicles/f71

it has 40 mm of the front of hull (so we can drop that) and it has 40mm on the turret "necks" frontal part (which I guess you hit as you said you were hitting the middle part)

Spoiler

 

*Edit, oh and I missed the gun mantlet, that one is all 40mm

 

P.S. there is a legal free camera mod that works only in replays, you can use that, so you could see better where you hit him.

 

 

 

**2 Edit. I watched the replay. You hit his frontal plate and it ricocheted.

 

P.S.S. There is a very nice mod here

https://protanki.tv/...rany-ot-tornado

After the battle you can have a look at where you did hit the enemies and with what results (pen., ricochet, non pen.) (only the ones you could see -> were rendered) and where you got hit yourself.


Edited by Daedal5, 09 February 2019 - 01:36 AM.


Element6 #7 Posted 09 February 2019 - 01:37 AM

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I've shot a BC 25t in the turret with the Jpz E-100 for 0 damage. Anything is possible.

DeadLecter #8 Posted 09 February 2019 - 12:17 PM

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View PostElement6, on 09 February 2019 - 04:07 AM, said:

I've shot a BC 25t in the turret with the Jpz E-100 for 0 damage. Anything is possible.

 

I've shot Skorpion G with Type 5's derp gun and did 0 damage.

Element6 #9 Posted 09 February 2019 - 04:31 PM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 09 February 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

I've shot Skorpion G with Type 5's derp gun and did 0 damage.

Ouch...that's worse than my example.

 

Then again it sort of proves my last point :)



teamkill_2014 #10 Posted 09 February 2019 - 05:14 PM

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View PostElement6, on 09 February 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

Ouch...that's worse than my example.

 

Then again it sort of proves my last point :)

 

I Shot a tier 8 BC12t in JG PZ E100, practically point blank range in the side - 0 DMG bounce :D

Edited by teamkill_2014, 09 February 2019 - 05:15 PM.


Rilleta #11 Posted 09 February 2019 - 06:32 PM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 09 February 2019 - 11:17 AM, said:

 

I've shot Skorpion G with Type 5's derp gun and did 0 damage.

 

Skorpion G is known to do this.

 

The pine-tree compensator absorbs plenty of HEs.

 

And also again the Type 5 and the thick gun: against B-C 58s, the arty usually finds the barrel when shooting head on.



AliceUnchained #12 Posted 10 February 2019 - 11:50 AM

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View PostFizrug, on 08 February 2019 - 11:55 PM, said:

Hello,

 

I had a game where the new wheeled vehicles survived a shot form one of the largest guns to the side:

http://wotreplays.eu...dorf-fizrug-t34

 

At 11:20 the Hotchkiss EBR was shot

The T34 has pen of 248
with -25% rng: 186
it should overmatch 62mm

Hotchkiss EBR has less than 62 everywhere

Should there be a bounce?

 

I am cool with 11:32 shot hitting the wheel and not doing any damage, but 11:20 shot "Ricochet" ?

 

Regards

Fizrug

 

The 2x/3x overmatch mechanic works on nominal armor thickness vs gun caliber, not on penetration. And while 3x also ignores ricochet angle, 2x does not. Therefor a ricochet at  >= 70º impact angle is as intended. Furthermore, if the wheel was hit where there is no armor behind it, I would imagine the same happens as with tracked vehicles. As in, 0 damage (critical) hit.



JocMeister #13 Posted 10 February 2019 - 12:01 PM

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I bounced a JPE100 shot with the [edited]of my LTTB once. 

 

Stuff happens. You should know that after 30k battles.



Noo_Noo #14 Posted 10 February 2019 - 12:04 PM

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Ah French armour. Has no thickness whatsoever but will bounce anything thrown at it. 

If I had a penny for every time I've bounced off a Batchat...........................................

Pathogen82 #15 Posted 10 February 2019 - 12:09 PM

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I am not sure what has been "fixed"on RNG but in my last 2 hours,

I have seen quite some magic happen. 4 full aimed shots not hitting. on my 100% crew...

Sure takes the fun out of the game,

 

Ow and if we wanted wheeled vehecles I would have bought need for speed.



Axelfoley666 #16 Posted 10 February 2019 - 12:09 PM

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RNG does as RNG does. No explanation, no math, it's just good old fashioned RNG, suck it up and move on. (after screaming WTF at the monitor of course).

 

Edit: Just had a battle in my Cent 5/1, I hit just about every single object possible between me and the enemy. No matter how big or small, I hit the object rather than the target despite fully aimed shots. Tomorrow, won't miss a shot. Some days this game is total Dog Toffee.


Edited by Axelfoley666, 10 February 2019 - 01:40 PM.





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