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shunke #1 Posted 09 February 2019 - 08:57 AM

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Hey I know we cant rewrite history but this is a game.

 

Why did the germans not do turrets like is-7 have? Was it some kind of "We are big" mentality when they made that E-100 turret against is-7 in ww2?

 

I think they lost the war because of this. Like if E-100 is pointing at your is-7. You will pen the turret but not gonna happen other way around.

 

I understand this is part of the history so that is why every german turret needs to be so weak but do you guys think they will buff turrets for better gameplay?



Rataplan #2 Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:01 AM

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No, they lost because for every tank they made, 50 wre rolling out on the other side.

shunke #3 Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:06 AM

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View PostRataplan, on 09 February 2019 - 08:01 AM, said:

No, they lost because for every tank they made, 50 wre rolling out on the other side.

 

Maybe. Maybe that ratio was because they used 10 times of steel to build one e-100 turret. 

 

If they just had made those is-7 turrets but noo.. stupid design.

 

Why make 100 ton tank that cant even point the enemy tank that??

 

 



BrainlessWorm #4 Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:15 AM

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E 100 Is a paper concept and certainly did not fight in the war. JS 7 did not see trials until mid 1946 so was not on the battlefield either.

 

The axis side lost due to being spread too thin and being outproduced and swamped by numbers. German tanks did improve armour profile and form based on battle experience , as did the allied vehicles. If Germany had not invaded Russia, then it is highly likely we would be looking at a totally different version of history

 

If you want a pretty good account of actual tank effectiveness on the battlefield, I suggest you read Tigers In The Mud by Otto Carius - it is quite fascinating and a true account of how things actually played out on the eastern front.

 


Edited by BrainlessWorm, 09 February 2019 - 09:22 AM.


shunke #5 Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:22 AM

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View PostBrainlessWorm, on 09 February 2019 - 08:15 AM, said:

E 100 Is a paper concept and certainly did not fight in the war. JS 7 did not see trials until mid 1946 so was not on the battlefield either.

 

The axis side lost due to being spread too thin and being outproduced and swamped by numbers. German tanks did improve armour profile and form based on battle experience , as did the allied vehicles. If Germany had not invaded Russia, then it is highly likely we would be looking at a totally different version of history

 

 

Yeah. But was the engineering really that bad if we are comparing to soviet engineering? They put 150mm guns to much lighter tanks. Also they made so good turrets and their tanks are small so arty cant hit so easily.

MeetriX #6 Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:22 AM

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Many things that is possible today wasn't possible back then.

LincolnTank #7 Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:28 AM

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The German mentality towards superior engineering was overmatched by Allies who designed and built tanks that were easier and cheaper to build, were easier to maintain on the battlefield and more numerous

BrainlessWorm #8 Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:35 AM

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The German approach was somewhat different than the Russian one and was driven to some degree by past war experience and also regional operating conditions. As can be seen in the earlier years, German armour and how it was used was generally far more effective than their opposition.  The KV1 proved a hard nut to crack and was one of the early types that induced the introduction of the tiger and the up-gunning of the pz-iv. The effectiveness of the sloped armour and lighter weight of the T34 lead to the Panther and later generation of sloped armour german tanks.

 

The Russians had in general serious issues with the tiger and later versions of the Pz-iv and visibility and communication in the T34 and KV1 were inferior, as was the gun penetration.  Their response was to introduce high caliber guns as a stop gap measure until the new designed tiger killer capable tanks such as the JS1 ( modified KV1) and JS2 could be introduced


Edited by BrainlessWorm, 09 February 2019 - 09:37 AM.


LordMuffin #9 Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:46 AM

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View Postshunke, on 09 February 2019 - 08:57 AM, said:

Hey I know we cant rewrite history but this is a game.

 

Why did the germans not do turrets like is-7 have? Was it some kind of "We are big" mentality when they made that E-100 turret against is-7 in ww2?

 

I think they lost the war because of this. Like if E-100 is pointing at your is-7. You will pen the turret but not gonna happen other way around.

 

I understand this is part of the history so that is why every german turret needs to be so weak but do you guys think they will buff turrets for better gameplay?

You know that if the T8+ German tanks in game.

Only the Tiger II was built in some numbers during ww2.

the Ferdinand and Jagdtiger was built, but so few they barely count.

 

The most produced German tank was the Pz IV (and versions of it).

 

For Soviets, no tanks above T8 was built during the war with exceptional of ISU-152 and T-44 (few in numbers).

 

For allies no T8+ tanks was built during the war (except very few Pershings).

 

In World War 2, the most used tanks was T-34 (and variants), M4 Sherman (and variants) and Pz IV (and variants).



shunke #10 Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:54 AM

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View PostBrainlessWorm, on 09 February 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:

The German approach was somewhat different than the Russian one and was driven to some degree by past war experience and also regional operating conditions. As can be seen in the earlier years, German armour and how it was used was generally far more effective than their opposition.  The KV1 proved a hard nut to crack and was one of the early types that induced the introduction of the tiger and the up-gunning of the pz-iv. The effectiveness of the sloped armour and lighter weight of the T34 lead to the Panther and later generation of sloped armour german tanks.

 

The Russians had in general serious issues with the tiger and later versions of the Pz-iv and visibility and communication in the T34 and KV1 were inferior, as was the gun penetration.  Their response was to introduce high caliber guns as a stop gap measure until the new designed tiger killer capable tanks such as the JS1 ( modified KV1) and JS2 could be introduced

 

Finally an answer that answers a bit.

I have still no clue why would german do E-100 turret so big and that it cant block any tier X when its facing them. Why was the strategy to build so big tanks that they are easy targets from longer ranges?

Why is E-100 Turret like that and not like IS-7 turret? by IS-7 turret I mean that it is very modern and rounded and good and has a big gun in it.

 

View PostLordMuffin, on 09 February 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

You know that if the T8+ German tanks in game.

Only the Tiger II was built in some numbers during ww2.

the Ferdinand and Jagdtiger was built, but so few they barely count.

 

The most produced German tank was the Pz IV (and versions of it).

 

For Soviets, no tanks above T8 was built during the war with exceptional of ISU-152 and T-44 (few in numbers).

 

For allies no T8+ tanks was built during the war (except very few Pershings).

 

In World War 2, the most used tanks was T-34 (and variants), M4 Sherman (and variants) and Pz IV (and variants).

ISU-152 has 152mm. It is a small tank vs. E-100. Why they needed to make E-100 size of tank to put 15cm?

 

After 23000 battles I only see negatives in E-100 desing.

-big size = big target, slow, easy to shoot at

-turret = if you look at enemy you will be penned, also you cant hide your weakspots

-huge lower plate

 

vs is-7

+small size = easy to hide

+mobile

+noweakspot in turret

 

German engineering was really really bad?



8126Jakobsson #11 Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:18 AM

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Maybe answers to some of your questions can be found among the confiscated documents that are being stored in the Smithsonian Institute. The public is not allowed to see those though, for some totally legit reason, so I guess the official narrative is the correct one. Especially since some have gone so far as to make it illegal to question parts of it. Because truth shouldn't have to hold up to scrutiny on its own. Obviously.

 

If you ask me I say that WarGaming fiddled with the numbers.  



Dava_117 #12 Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:23 AM

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View Postshunke, on 09 February 2019 - 08:57 AM, said:

Hey I know we cant rewrite history but this is a game.

 

Why did the germans not do turrets like is-7 have? Was it some kind of "We are big" mentality when they made that E-100 turret against is-7 in ww2?

 

I think they lost the war because of this. Like if E-100 is pointing at your is-7. You will pen the turret but not gonna happen other way around.

 

I understand this is part of the history so that is why every german turret needs to be so weak but do you guys think they will buff turrets for better gameplay?

 

Historically, german also had the problem that Hitler loved big heavy tanks. IRL Maus was quite useless because it couldn't even cross bridges. But the Fuhrer liked the idea of a big unstoppable machine that could win the war in few numbers.

 

There are also ergonomic dimensions too. German tanks tend to be bigger to give the crew better comfort. Soviet tanks, on the opppsite way, have never been so good crew comfort wise because of the lower size.

 

As the german turrets in game, they could usually be angled pretty decently, at least in a sidescraping position.

E100 in particular is not as good as E75, but can still bounce quite well if carefully angled. 

If it should be buffed, IMO it should get better side armour and turret dispersion parameters, so you keep the angling requirement but can get better at that.


Edited by Dava_117, 09 February 2019 - 10:25 AM.


SABAOTH #13 Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:24 AM

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Germans are the bad guys in WoT, they exist for the pleasure to be destroyed by superior russian technology :izmena:

 

 

By the way if you would go by historical MM you would have Tiger 1 and 2 fighting vs M4 shermans and T 34, KV and IS.

 

No matter what WoT taught you, tanks were not engaging at under 500 m distances and allies feared Panthers and Tigers because they could know them out only at few hundred meters while they were knocked out at over 1 km. :coin:



shunke #14 Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:31 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 09 February 2019 - 09:23 AM, said:

 

Historically, german also had the problem that Hitler loved big heavy tanks. IRL Maus was quite useless because it couldn't even cross bridges. But the Fuhrer liked the idea of a big unstoppable machine that could win the war in few numbers.

 

There are also ergonomic dimensions too. German tanks tend to be bigger to give the crew better comfort. Soviet tanks, on the opppsite way, have never been so good crew comfort wise because of the lower size.

 

As the german turrets in game, they could usually be angled pretty decently, at least in a sidescraping position.

E100 in particular is not as good as E75, but can still bounce quite well if carefully angled. 

If it should be buffed, IMO it should get better side armour and turret dispersion parameters, so you keep the angling requirement but can get better at that.

 

But I cant understand that professional engineers would make E-100, big giantic turret that is weakspot when you aim at your enemy. When Soviet did IS-7 turret that is probably the best. :ohmy: 

 

Why is it not rounded? Why is it huge weakspot? Was it possible to put 15cm gun in a smaller turret in germany side?

 

And also ISU is much smaller tank and has that 15cm gun. Soviets were much more professional than germans in technology?



SABAOTH #15 Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:40 AM

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View Postshunke, on 09 February 2019 - 10:31 AM, said:

But I cant understand that professional engineers would make E-100, big giantic turret that is weakspot when you aim at your enemy. When Soviet did IS-7 turret that is probably the best. :ohmy: 

 

Why is it not rounded? Why is it huge weakspot? Was it possible to put 15cm gun in a smaller turret in germany side?

 

And also ISU is much smaller tank and has that 15cm gun. Soviets were much more professional than germans in technology?

 

E 100 turret is arbitrary choice as only the hull was ever realized.

 

Probably armor back then was far more effective than it is in World of Tanks, by the way the concept was to give the crew the most chance of survival if the tank was knocked out, something that will be hard if the combat compartment is cramped.

 

And there was no "2" key and stronk bush mechanics too, plus a spotted tank will not disappear into thin air in the open :coin:



seXikanac #16 Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:41 AM

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View Postshunke, on 09 February 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

 

Finally an answer that answers a bit.

I have still no clue why would german do E-100 turret so big and that it cant block any tier X when its facing them. Why was the strategy to build so big tanks that they are easy targets from longer ranges?

Why is E-100 Turret like that and not like IS-7 turret? by IS-7 turret I mean that it is very modern and rounded and good and has a big gun in it.

 

ISU-152 has 152mm. It is a small tank vs. E-100. Why they needed to make E-100 size of tank to put 15cm?

 

After 23000 battles I only see negatives in E-100 desing.

-big size = big target, slow, easy to shoot at

-turret = if you look at enemy you will be penned, also you cant hide your weakspots

-huge lower plate

 

vs is-7

+small size = easy to hide

+mobile

+noweakspot in turret

 

German engineering was really really bad?

 

You do get that WoT is not historically correct? A lot of tanks that are OP in the game, might not ever see battlefield because they would never pass the prototype phase as they would be deemed impractical or not functional? Power of the tanks in WoT, as well as fire ratio and similar is pure gameplay based not related (some are similar) to real tanks? What you are debating is as you would figure out that GIGN is better than SAS (just an example, I'm sure both are good) because people that play GIGN skins in CS make more frags per game :D

shunke #17 Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:49 AM

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View PostseXikanac, on 09 February 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

 

You do get that WoT is not historically correct? A lot of tanks that are OP in the game, might not ever see battlefield because they would never pass the prototype phase as they would be deemed impractical or not functional? Power of the tanks in WoT, as well as fire ratio and similar is pure gameplay based not related (some are similar) to real tanks? What you are debating is as you would figure out that GIGN is better than SAS (just an example, I'm sure both are good) because people that play GIGN skins in CS make more frags per game :D

 

I know its not historically correct but I just dont understand why would they make it so big but weak. It weights so much and is a big weakspot (lowerplate + turret), when other nation has  a lot of more rational thinking in the tank.

 

Big size but weak armor = easy to shot + easy to shot as inaccurate guns. vs. small size and good armor with worse accurate



veso_vn #18 Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:51 AM

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E100 turent is by :) Wargaming  design not German :) 

Dava_117 #19 Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:52 AM

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View Postshunke, on 09 February 2019 - 10:31 AM, said:

 

But I cant understand that professional engineers would make E-100, big giantic turret that is weakspot when you aim at your enemy. When Soviet did IS-7 turret that is probably the best. :ohmy: 

 

Why is it not rounded? Why is it huge weakspot? Was it possible to put 15cm gun in a smaller turret in germany side?

 

And also ISU is much smaller tank and has that 15cm gun. Soviets were much more professional than germans in technology?

 

ISU is a casemate TD. If you look at the volume of the casemate, is similar to E100 turret. Also IS-7 didn't existed at time, IS-3 was barely on the test ground. 

 

I would also like to point out that not all tanks in WoT should be hulldown tanks. Just play the E100 for its strenght, that are high alpha, good pen and a reliable HE to damage hulldown tanks.



shunke #20 Posted 09 February 2019 - 10:53 AM

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Guys check this

 

https://tanks.gg/tan...model?vm=hybrid

 

The armor profile of this tank is amazing.

 

It also goes 50km/h even when it weights 70 tons..

 

 






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