Jump to content


XVM 101


  • Please log in to reply
255 replies to this topic

Poll: XVM in WoT (257 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Should XVM be banned ?

  1. Yes (170 votes [66.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 66.15%

  2. No (87 votes [33.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.85%

If you said yes, then why (few options i could thnk of)?

  1. I got stat-shamed. (9 votes [3.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.50%

  2. I'm a purplecum who gets focused 24/7 (38 votes [14.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.79%

  3. It gives somehow an unfair advantage (86 votes [33.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.46%

  4. ??? (31 votes [12.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.06%

  5. I said NO! (93 votes [36.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.19%

Vote Hide poll

Signal11th #241 Posted 20 February 2019 - 03:40 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 44231 battles
  • 6,338
  • [S3AL] S3AL
  • Member since:
    07-14-2011

View PostFataL_ShadowZ, on 20 February 2019 - 01:21 PM, said:

 I know QB uses his own XVM-based mod but of the other famous streamers, I've watched Circon's stream once or twice (minutes at a time, found it pretty boring tbh) and I noticed he has a mod which turns the enemy a light purple colour. I don't know what mod he uses but I've seen the same used on other streams. Is it an XVM variant or purely a mod that affects only his GUI?

 

I can't think of any others that use XVM.

 

It's a setting for colourblind mode in game... ahh apologies seen that been answered..

Mikanoid #242 Posted 20 February 2019 - 04:13 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 4348 battles
  • 63
  • [_PLPL] _PLPL
  • Member since:
    11-05-2018

View PostRati_Festa, on 20 February 2019 - 02:09 PM, said:

 

Read your points.... which are all basically contradicted by your opening statement. XVM focus does happen.... it shouldn't happen. Your points all make sense, but the knowledge that one player is better than others due to a detailed review of that players past playing history, given away by a colour floating over their tank absorbed in a microsecond by an opponent so they can then make action decisions is just plain wrong. All it is doing is hindering the better players ability to play, by basically persecuting them for being good.

 

WG have already enough crackpot ideas about "balancing" skill levels that haven't worked, IE godzilla tanks, 1 shot TDS and arty. The actual "balancing" should be set by the tiers, if you are a crap player don't play at T10 go play at lower tiers. All this balancing is based on getting the average bob to have his moment of magic at any tier, it's an awful concept longterm as it has led to the dumbing down of the game. XVM stats is part of that concept of evening our the playing field.... its a crap idea, implemented badly and not good for the game long term. As it belittles the concept of the game.

 

It's a very simple concept, being better than everyone else at a game shouldn't lead you to being focused due to that.

 

 

So youre saying a player who consistently gets 2000 damage and 3 kills with a 54% win rate and has stats to match that is likely to be "as good" as a player with a 40% win rate who averages 300 damage and 0.5 kills then? lol

Of COURSE stats are a reliable indication of a players skill, a good player doesn't have "bad stats" and a bad player doesn't have "good" stats barring very few stat padding exceptions, who in order to maintain those stats are most probably in one of the half dozen tanks they play constantly, so whilst they might be crap in most other tanks, chances are they ARENT in those tanks

Similarly, even genuinely good players will have bad games, make mistakes or just be grinding one of the dreadful tanks whose tier is 1 or 2 tiers above what their stats would dictate they should be, so even a worse player in a much better tank might get the upper hand, that doesn't mean their stats are meaningless, because if the same two players met 10 times in a row the better player WITH the better stats would win most of those engagements

But nobody said it was a guarantee of how anyone would do in any particular game, but its a pretty good indication of what they have the potential to do statistically, because its what they have been doing over and over again, whether that's playing well or poorly

Its no different to how people make a living from betting on horse racing or playing the stock market. Those two can have anomalies, but that doesn't mean performance stats are irrelevant


The other thing people do seem to miss a lot with this discussion too is that suppose XVM does help a poor player to play more intuitively, they will only become slightly less poor, it wont make a mediocre player a unicum by any stretch of a cocaine addled imagination

And all it really does is give them "some" insight into what a unicum already knows anyway due to experience and skill. As they for the most part KNOW where the good players will go because to them its the "obvious" way to approach a certain map with a certain mix of tank classes.

So if anything, it would be a better argument to ban it for people above a certain level within the game as they shouldn't need it and probably wont get any benefit from it anyway.

As for other comments about poor players not being allowed in tier 10 games, the absolute day after good players are banned from any level below tier 9 I "might" agree with that, but probably not to be honest as having poor players in any tier isn't a "problem" unless ONLY your team has them, if both teams have equal amounts of them then it makes no difference whatsoever

So what these people are REALLY complaining about isn't having poor players in the match, its just a complaint about having them on THEIR team, when they are on the other team they don't complain about it at all but instead prefer to cling to the delusion that their 15/0 2 minute win was because of "skill" lol
 

Signal11th #243 Posted 21 February 2019 - 12:18 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 44231 battles
  • 6,338
  • [S3AL] S3AL
  • Member since:
    07-14-2011

View PostMikanoid, on 20 February 2019 - 03:13 PM, said:

 

So youre saying a player who consistently gets 2000 damage and 3 kills with a 54% win rate and has stats to match that is likely to be "as good" as a player with a 40% win rate who averages 300 damage and 0.5 kills then? lol

Of COURSE stats are a reliable indication of a players skill, a good player doesn't have "bad stats" and a bad player doesn't have "good" stats barring very few stat padding exceptions, who in order to maintain those stats are most probably in one of the half dozen tanks they play constantly, so whilst they might be crap in most other tanks, chances are they ARENT in those tanks

Similarly, even genuinely good players will have bad games, make mistakes or just be grinding one of the dreadful tanks whose tier is 1 or 2 tiers above what their stats would dictate they should be, so even a worse player in a much better tank might get the upper hand, that doesn't mean their stats are meaningless, because if the same two players met 10 times in a row the better player WITH the better stats would win most of those engagements

But nobody said it was a guarantee of how anyone would do in any particular game, but its a pretty good indication of what they have the potential to do statistically, because its what they have been doing over and over again, whether that's playing well or poorly

Its no different to how people make a living from betting on horse racing or playing the stock market. Those two can have anomalies, but that doesn't mean performance stats are irrelevant


The other thing people do seem to miss a lot with this discussion too is that suppose XVM does help a poor player to play more intuitively, they will only become slightly less poor, it wont make a mediocre player a unicum by any stretch of a cocaine addled imagination

And all it really does is give them "some" insight into what a unicum already knows anyway due to experience and skill. As they for the most part KNOW where the good players will go because to them its the "obvious" way to approach a certain map with a certain mix of tank classes.

So if anything, it would be a better argument to ban it for people above a certain level within the game as they shouldn't need it and probably wont get any benefit from it anyway.

As for other comments about poor players not being allowed in tier 10 games, the absolute day after good players are banned from any level below tier 9 I "might" agree with that, but probably not to be honest as having poor players in any tier isn't a "problem" unless ONLY your team has them, if both teams have equal amounts of them then it makes no difference whatsoever

So what these people are REALLY complaining about isn't having poor players in the match, its just a complaint about having them on THEIR team, when they are on the other team they don't complain about it at all but instead prefer to cling to the delusion that their 15/0 2 minute win was because of "skill" lol
 

 

2+2 and you come up with 6 or in other words total tosh.

Captain_Kremen0 #244 Posted 21 February 2019 - 10:53 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 39141 battles
  • 2,326
  • [TFMB] TFMB
  • Member since:
    06-04-2011

View PostRati_Festa, on 20 February 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

There isnt really an arguement,

it happens =yes 

Its wrong = yes

 

Frequency is intrinsically linked to how good the player is compared with his team mates and how many people are using xvm.

 

Its like saying aimbotting isnt an issue because only a minority are using it.

 

So we know it happens and we know its wrong... where is the "valid" arguement.

 

The only one that can be put forward is the dumbing down... ie making it easier for weaker players to counter better players. That is just cowing to lazy WG money making... they need to get another way of draining cash from Steve.

Soooooooo. A few minutes into a game and an Arty sees that a flank is being pushed by an enemy with a cpl of kills and is obviously pretty good. No need for XVM in this case it's obvious.. If that player is hitable is it wrong to focus him?

Hell no! its common fecking sense to get the bastard to wind his neck in.

 

Sorry Rati - but ever since officers decided to wear shinier buttons and badges focus has been a reality of war.



LordMuffin #245 Posted 21 February 2019 - 11:03 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 52608 battles
  • 13,315
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    06-21-2011

View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 21 February 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

Soooooooo. A few minutes into a game and an Arty sees that a flank is being pushed by an enemy with a cpl of kills and is obviously pretty good. No need for XVM in this case it's obvious.. If that player is hitable is it wrong to focus him?

Hell no! its common fecking sense to get the bastard to wind his neck in.

 

Sorry Rati - but ever since officers decided to wear shinier buttons and badges focus has been a reality of war.

But then a purple player in a fast light tank appears somewhere on the map, and that guy that won he flank is suddenly unimportant, because must shoot purple player (if arty have xvm).



Captain_Kremen0 #246 Posted 21 February 2019 - 02:13 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 39141 battles
  • 2,326
  • [TFMB] TFMB
  • Member since:
    06-04-2011

View PostLordMuffin, on 21 February 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

But then a purple player in a fast light tank appears somewhere on the map, and that guy that won he flank is suddenly unimportant, because must shoot purple player (if arty have xvm).

 

Well it was a non-XVM scenario.......but answers to the question are still being accepted

SuNo_TeSLa #247 Posted 21 February 2019 - 04:10 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 48313 battles
  • 466
  • [SWEPH] SWEPH
  • Member since:
    07-07-2013

View PostLordMuffin, on 21 February 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

But then a purple player in a fast light tank appears somewhere on the map, and that guy that won he flank is suddenly unimportant, because must shoot purple player (if arty have xvm).

 

Haha, yeah i've had that done to me ALOT and i'm not even purple :D

vp56 #248 Posted 21 February 2019 - 04:15 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 3424 battles
  • 171
  • [-UM] -UM
  • Member since:
    01-10-2013
According to TAP, Wargaming removed access to client language in the WoT API (presumably what is used) yesterday. A sign of things to come, perhaps?

eekeeboo #249 Posted 21 February 2019 - 07:53 PM

    EU Video Content Manager

  • WG Staff
  • 47010 battles
  • 2,486
  • Member since:
    07-25-2010

View Postvp56, on 21 February 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

According to TAP, Wargaming removed access to client language in the WoT API (presumably what is used) yesterday. A sign of things to come, perhaps?

 

​Waiting to find out an answer. 

Rainbowkiss83 #250 Posted 21 February 2019 - 08:07 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 22403 battles
  • 169
  • [_HATE] _HATE
  • Member since:
    07-24-2014
83 voted No but 90 voted "i said no"...
7 bipolar so far

Captain_Kremen0 #251 Posted 22 February 2019 - 11:58 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 39141 battles
  • 2,326
  • [TFMB] TFMB
  • Member since:
    06-04-2011

Some more figures from last nights games as promised

 

The total percentage of XVM users encountered - 25%

 

Percentage of Arty players using XVM - 15%; that is 1.8% of all players.

 

Now - what percentage of those users direct "focus" as opposed to those who play "rationally - which may oc include some focus) is open to debate; but it is still going to be a percentage of a relatively small percentage.

 

And before the naysayers come back with arguments of sample size I would suggest they conduct their own larger study or STFU.

 

 

 



Rati_Festa #252 Posted 22 February 2019 - 12:17 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 49234 battles
  • 2,377
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    02-10-2012

View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 22 February 2019 - 11:58 AM, said:

Some more figures from last nights games as promised

 

The total percentage of XVM users encountered - 25%

 

Percentage of Arty players using XVM - 15%; that is 1.8% of all players.

 

Now - what percentage of those users direct "focus" as opposed to those who play "rationally - which may oc include some focus) is open to debate; but it is still going to be a percentage of a relatively small percentage.

 

And before the naysayers come back with arguments of sample size I would suggest they conduct their own larger study or STFU.

 

 

 

Interesting, what tier were you playing at?



tajj7 #253 Posted 22 February 2019 - 12:19 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 28175 battles
  • 16,207
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 21 February 2019 - 09:53 AM, said:

Sorry Rati - but ever since officers decided to wear shinier buttons and badges focus has been a reality of war.

 

1. This is a game not real war, real war is not fair or balanced in any way, a game should be.

 

2. There are multiple examples where said officers have warn uniforms where they are indistinguishable from other soldiers to avoid that exact situation where snipers were picking them off. 

 

I don't get that option, I have no ability to hide my stats or prevent them being seen, it we use the war analogy it would be like an infantry office being forced to have a giant neon sign above his head that 'shoot me first'. 

 

View Postvp56, on 21 February 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

According to TAP, Wargaming removed access to client language in the WoT API (presumably what is used) yesterday. A sign of things to come, perhaps?

 

Let's hope so. 

 

View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 22 February 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

Some more figures from last nights games as promised

 

The total percentage of XVM users encountered - 25%

 

Percentage of Arty players using XVM - 15%; that is 1.8% of all players.

 

Now - what percentage of those users direct "focus" as opposed to those who play "rationally - which may oc include some focus) is open to debate; but it is still going to be a percentage of a relatively small percentage.

 

And before the naysayers come back with arguments of sample size I would suggest they conduct their own larger study or STFU.

 

I honestly couldn't even care about the data about how frequently it happens, it happening once is wrong in my book. I know it happens, I know it happens enough to annoy me and impact my game and I know that it's unfair that a third party mod that others use should impact my game in that way. 



Captain_Kremen0 #254 Posted 22 February 2019 - 12:25 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 39141 battles
  • 2,326
  • [TFMB] TFMB
  • Member since:
    06-04-2011

View PostRati_Festa, on 22 February 2019 - 11:17 AM, said:

Interesting, what tier were you playing at?

 

Mostly 7/8 so seeing tanks up to tier X
11:28 Added after 3 minutes

View Posttajj7, on 22 February 2019 - 11:19 AM, said:

 

1. This is a game not real war, real war is not fair or balanced in any way, a game should be.

It is a game, but the idea is still to win and the tactic is still valid

 

2. There are multiple examples where said officers have warn uniforms where they are indistinguishable from other soldiers to avoid that exact situation where snipers were picking them off. 

 

I don't get that option, I have no ability to hide my stats or prevent them being seen, it we use the war analogy it would be like an infantry office being forced to have a giant neon sign above his head that 'shoot me first'. 

 

 

Let's hope so. 

 

 

I honestly couldn't even care about the data about how frequently it happens, it happening once is wrong in my book. I know it happens, I know it happens enough to annoy me and impact my game and I know that it's unfair that a third party mod that others use should impact my game in that way. 

Well best you start diggin' that reality you were so fond of in point 1

As pointed out - it may soon all be a moot argument.

 



Rati_Festa #255 Posted 22 February 2019 - 12:29 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 49234 battles
  • 2,377
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    02-10-2012

View PostMikanoid, on 20 February 2019 - 04:13 PM, said:

 

So youre saying a player who consistently gets 2000 damage and 3 kills with a 54% win rate and has stats to match that is likely to be "as good" as a player with a 40% win rate who averages 300 damage and 0.5 kills then? lol

Of COURSE stats are a reliable indication of a players skill, a good player doesn't have "bad stats" and a bad player doesn't have "good" stats barring very few stat padding exceptions, who in order to maintain those stats are most probably in one of the half dozen tanks they play constantly, so whilst they might be crap in most other tanks, chances are they ARENT in those tanks

Similarly, even genuinely good players will have bad games, make mistakes or just be grinding one of the dreadful tanks whose tier is 1 or 2 tiers above what their stats would dictate they should be, so even a worse player in a much better tank might get the upper hand, that doesn't mean their stats are meaningless, because if the same two players met 10 times in a row the better player WITH the better stats would win most of those engagements

But nobody said it was a guarantee of how anyone would do in any particular game, but its a pretty good indication of what they have the potential to do statistically, because its what they have been doing over and over again, whether that's playing well or poorly

Its no different to how people make a living from betting on horse racing or playing the stock market. Those two can have anomalies, but that doesn't mean performance stats are irrelevant


The other thing people do seem to miss a lot with this discussion too is that suppose XVM does help a poor player to play more intuitively, they will only become slightly less poor, it wont make a mediocre player a unicum by any stretch of a cocaine addled imagination

And all it really does is give them "some" insight into what a unicum already knows anyway due to experience and skill. As they for the most part KNOW where the good players will go because to them its the "obvious" way to approach a certain map with a certain mix of tank classes.

So if anything, it would be a better argument to ban it for people above a certain level within the game as they shouldn't need it and probably wont get any benefit from it anyway.

As for other comments about poor players not being allowed in tier 10 games, the absolute day after good players are banned from any level below tier 9 I "might" agree with that, but probably not to be honest as having poor players in any tier isn't a "problem" unless ONLY your team has them, if both teams have equal amounts of them then it makes no difference whatsoever

So what these people are REALLY complaining about isn't having poor players in the match, its just a complaint about having them on THEIR team, when they are on the other team they don't complain about it at all but instead prefer to cling to the delusion that their 15/0 2 minute win was because of "skill" lol
 

 

Using horse racing analogy and then using the word "insight".....

 Like inside knowledge and betting, does that sound fair to you? An honourable past time? Not dubious in anyway?

 

The only way anything like enemy knowledge should be included is through perks/skills and it definately shouldnt be 3rd party provided info. Xvm in matches has got out of control as it is has/is effecting the meta of the game.

 

WG should be the only entity that controls meta...

 

 



tajj7 #256 Posted 22 February 2019 - 12:36 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 28175 battles
  • 16,207
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 22 February 2019 - 11:25 AM, said:

It is a game, but the idea is still to win and the tactic is still valid

 

Your same argument would support the use of cheat mods, because anything that helps you win right? 

 

Like I said, it's a game, thus it should be fair and balanced, not win at all costs at the expense of p*ssing off a lot of your players.  If people want to focus me because I am playing active and aggressively, I have no issue with that (I have issues with arty as a game mechanic full stop that allows players to do that risk free, but that is a different issue), but getting information that the game does not provide you, that gives you an advantage and instantly allows you to single out a player because a mod says he is the best player, and that player can do nothing to stop it, that is broken, unfair and unbalanced. 

 

As said many pages ago, the XVM actually matches WG's own definition of what a 'cheat mod' is, it's a third party mod that gives players an unfair advantage. They just excuse it as being an allowed mod basically on a technicality because it has been used so long and is used by so many people.

 

But it fits the description just like an aimbot does, a banned mod. 






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users