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Supertest Leak: Swedish heavy tanks


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eekeeboo #1 Posted 28 February 2019 - 02:03 PM

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Greetings Tankers! 

 

Welcome to the Supertest the preliminary versions of the updated Emil I (Tier VIII), Emil II (Tier IX), and Kranvagn (Tier X)!

 

All of these tanks have a well-armored turret, excellent gun depression, and a four-shell autoloader. Currently, the Swedish autoloader tanks are too much like those from other nations; their magazines inflict lots of damage but take long to reload. In this time the tanks stop being active combatants for a relatively long period of time. This is something we want to tweak.

 

The plan is to re-arrange the Scandinavians’ play pattern and make them reload faster—by shortening the full reload time and upping the alpha damage. The price is one round taken away from the clip. This way, your tank will find itself in the “just about to reload” state much more often and catching you with your gun down should become more complicated, hitting your adversaries faster and harder. Additionally, the top 120-mm gun in the branch will take less time between shots; together with other adjustments, this will bolster the Kranvagn’s damage per minute by more than 20%.

 

Spoiler

 

As always, these changes are not final, more may happen depending on test results. Make sure to follow the news and good luck in every battle!

 

Good Luck and Good Hunting! 

 

eek! 


Edited by eekeeboo, 01 March 2019 - 12:27 PM.


Bucifel #2 Posted 01 March 2019 - 05:13 PM

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where are armor buffs for Emil 1 to become true what you said about Emil 51 ???

Yet, they have exactly same pfrofile, even advantage for Emil 51 because spaced armor on sides...and you said this tank is less armored but more agile.

 

so??



Darkoni_ #3 Posted 01 March 2019 - 08:35 PM

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Will Emil 51 also get 360 dmg per shot? 

MeNoobTank #4 Posted 02 March 2019 - 12:01 AM

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Ok, so the swedish line is first for the buff. Not really the buffs I wanted but ok I guess...

 

You only had to give them slightly better aim time and better premium rounds maybe.

 

I cannot wait for the supertest of Leo 1 line, IS-4 line, E100 line and STB-1 line buffs now !



Ober__ #5 Posted 02 March 2019 - 10:33 AM

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There are still big problems with the view range, mobility, awfull gun handling (I mean stabilization on the move, while turning turret and etc.) and gold ammo penetration on Emil I (should be 255-260) and on Kranvagen (should be 310-315), regarding Emill II as a the IX no complains, cause tier IX has best MM.

Lorensoth #6 Posted 02 March 2019 - 10:51 AM

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This lane ended up "better not bother playing" kind of ones. Even tho i liked look and overall playstyle of kranvagn, it was just too inferior in many ways simply not worth playing with. Having speed without mobility, having somewhat ok turret front while awfull gun/pen stats to make that armor work. Having role of a heavy tank while you will easy pen for any tier5+ tank, since about 80% of your "tank" made from paper, its like only metal they found put on turret front and thats about it.

Meanwhile both Emil 1 and 2 was somewhat ok and acceptable tanks once you look at tier by tier comparison. And i enjoyed playing them much more then i did with their top of lane tank. So, dpm changes with reduced clip reload will probably help them, atleast, much more then how it would do for kranvagn. I don't think it will be enaugh for kranvagn.

Btw, something i felt mentioned, heat of this tank, most likely worst avaliable ammo of game. It just doesn't worth choosing it over standart in 99% of times. For a player like myself, that i carry clip or two heat ammo just to use when its required, like having to shot "armored" tanks, since you made them invincible otherwise anyway. 300 pen is like, below limit of required value, that often, will still not going to be enough. Not to mention you also lost shell speed in process. And most likely same reason pretty much all other tanks has access to 325-340 rounds, who knows why this tank left alone with such low value at first, we may never know.



ZeFeKa #7 Posted 02 March 2019 - 12:35 PM

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Not sure that what Kranvagn needed.

 

With the 3 Autoloader you had a choice between 3 playstyle :

High mobility, good gun handling, average DPM, low survivability => 50B

Low mobility, low gun handling, high dpm, average survivability => T57

Average mobility, average/low gun handling, low dpm, high survivability => Kranvagn

 

It just needed that intra clip buff, a little clip reload buff and gun handling and it was good to go. Now with this DPM buff it's kinda steal the T57 spot leaving T57 without real advantage.

 

It's not like the Kranvagn needed a real buff in the first place. It's more a tank (like alot of other) who need a nerf of the other TX top dog than anything else. But nerfing OP tank wich lead to buffing all the other does not seem like an option for WG, sadly.



HaLlak65 #8 Posted 02 March 2019 - 01:30 PM

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Kranvagn's pen is sh....terrible! 300 for a heat? That's why nobody plays the Kranvagn. Try to pen a Type 5 from front with 300 pen! Alpha and reload weren‘t the weaknesses for this line. Gun handling and pen are the ones need to be buffed.

Homer_J #9 Posted 02 March 2019 - 02:30 PM

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I feel that reducing the clip size just means you will be trolled by 1/3 of your shells instead of 1/4.

reklakazala #10 Posted 03 March 2019 - 06:48 AM

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View PostOber__, on 02 March 2019 - 10:33 AM, said:

There are still big problems with the view range, mobility, awfull gun handling (I mean stabilization on the move, while turning turret and etc.) and gold ammo penetration on Emil I (should be 255-260) and on Kranvagen (should be 310-315), regarding Emill II as a the IX no complains, cause tier IX has best MM.

 

why?

it have like... what ? 105 mm gun

basically  all western tanks have same L7 UK gun ( because it was best  gun at that time)

and what? combination of letters and numbers in his name give that tank some extra power?

05:51 Added after 2 minutes

View PostZeFeKa, on 02 March 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:

Not sure that what Kranvagn needed.

 

With the 3 Autoloader you had a choice between 3 playstyle :

High mobility, good gun handling, average DPM, low survivability => 50B

Low mobility, low gun handling, high dpm, average survivability => T57

Average mobility, average/low gun handling, low dpm, high survivability => Kranvagn

 

It just needed that intra clip buff, a little clip reload buff and gun handling and it was good to go. Now with this DPM buff it's kinda steal the T57 spot leaving T57 without real advantage.

 

It's not like the Kranvagn needed a real buff in the first place. It's more a tank (like alot of other) who need a nerf of the other TX top dog than anything else. But nerfing OP tank wich lead to buffing all the other does not seem like an option for WG, sadly.

 

yes , yes and i need on my t54 suhoj su-22 CAS aircraft to support my attack
05:54 Added after 5 minutes

View PostLorensoth, on 02 March 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

This lane ended up "better not bother playing" kind of ones. Even tho i liked look and overall playstyle of kranvagn, it was just too inferior in many ways simply not worth playing with. Having speed without mobility, having somewhat ok turret front while awfull gun/pen stats to make that armor work. Having role of a heavy tank while you will easy pen for any tier5+ tank, since about 80% of your "tank" made from paper, its like only metal they found put on turret front and thats about it.

Meanwhile both Emil 1 and 2 was somewhat ok and acceptable tanks once you look at tier by tier comparison. And i enjoyed playing them much more then i did with their top of lane tank. So, dpm changes with reduced clip reload will probably help them, atleast, much more then how it would do for kranvagn. I don't think it will be enaugh for kranvagn.

Btw, something i felt mentioned, heat of this tank, most likely worst avaliable ammo of game. It just doesn't worth choosing it over standart in 99% of times. For a player like myself, that i carry clip or two heat ammo just to use when its required, like having to shot "armored" tanks, since you made them invincible otherwise anyway. 300 pen is like, below limit of required value, that often, will still not going to be enough. Not to mention you also lost shell speed in process. And most likely same reason pretty much all other tanks has access to 325-340 rounds, who knows why this tank left alone with such low value at first, we may never know.

 

in game, HEAT ammo, because of ignorance of game developers is useless .

what in game is represented as HEAT is some sort of welding device, not HEAT ammo

there is no real HEAT ammo in game 



OtherPlans #11 Posted 04 March 2019 - 12:21 PM

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I kinda agree with ZeFeKa: with these changes, you might be stepping on the T57's toes. The main problem I find with these tanks (which these changes don't really address) is the penetration and/or the gun handling. You have this great turret, but have to sit a lot to aim and when you fire, there's a good chance you won't pen or hit where you want to.

It's very tricky to deal with Types in this tank because, while you'd have the turret armor to bounce just about any other tank, you can't bounce the Type 4 and 5 :) And, with the pen and gun handling these tanks have, you have to sit and aim for Types' weakspots, which you still end up bouncing. Meanwhile, the Types and their very poorly balanced prem HE snap you for 500 to 600 dmg no matter where they hit. I've only gotten 1 warning in this forum and it's because I've expressed my deep dislike for the Types (still can't wait for those to be changed, I tell ya...).

 

I'd love for these Swedish heavies to fit well in the game and not make either the 50b or the t57 obsolete, but the pen and gun handling is too much to deal with sometimes. One of these has to change, imo.

 

Maybe improve the gun handling (keep long aim-time, just make accuracy better?) and give it only 2 shells? Or 3 shells with the same alpha as they have now?



Ker3stashM #12 Posted 04 March 2019 - 02:59 PM

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This could be a step towards the right direction in terms of separating the playstyle from 50B and T57 Heavy but it won't make the tank any more viable simply because DPM isn't the issue of the tank.

After spending many - mostly miserable - games in this tank (still like it for some reason) I think the main issues would be the following

  1. Base ammo is APCR with slow shell velocity. Penetration is fine let's say but this type of ammo bounces way too often. Either change it to AP (& slightly decrease velocity) or leave it APCR but increase shell velocity. 
  2. Premium ammo penetration is 300... Is there a reason why it's so ridiculously low? literally everything has higher premium pen than this tank. 50B 325 (~8% more), T57 Heavy 340 (~13% more). Looking at Type 5's lower plate with pen indicator is still yellow/orange and ammo often does not go through - although I know that's not where the real weakspots of the tank are but this is kind of ridiculous still, also hitting the actual weakspots is rather problematic with the gun handling. I would have this increased to at least 315 which would still be the lowest against its competition. 
  3. Gun handling - Honestly, I would be happy if the above 2 issues were highlighted and fixed but if ammo was to be kept the same then at least gun handling should be looked at. Again, right now the tank has crap pen values, crap gun handling values. I'm not saying to fix both to create "power creep" but either needs to be addressed. In this case, if you decide not to touch the ammo type/pen issues then you should at least decrease dispersion (it's again worse than 50B and T57 heavy) or aiming time. Let's say to 0.33-0.34 (from 0.36) and to 2.35-2.40 (from 2.50).
  4. Mobility/Survivability - Kranvagn has high top speed...down the hill. Otherwise I would not call it a mobile tank at all. It has a very poor Power-to-Weight ratio due to very low performing engine which is just 700 HP so it cannot actually quickly get to the front, hull down spots you intend this tank to go (based on your facebook posts) before it gets killed by meds or arty because let's face it, you only don't pen the hull of the Kranvagn when you don't hit it. (I get it I get it, it's a trade off for the turret armor). For some reason base HP is also super low, more aligned with meds than with heavies. 

 

To summarize, the proposed changes would differentiate the tank from its counterparts but I would not call them buffs. I don't think they would make the tank more viable. I think you should rather look at penetration and gun handling values if you want the tank to be played by more peeps. 



Bucifel #13 Posted 04 March 2019 - 05:45 PM

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View PostKandly, on 04 October 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

Commanders,

 

Gameplay-wise, it’s an ‘Emil I Lite’: the Emil 1951 has less armor than its progression counterpart but is more mobile. There’s one less round in the barrel of the Emil 1951, but its aiming parameters are better and it shoots faster than the Emil I.

 

 

still...where are Emil 1 armor buffs to make your afirmation from above true??

:sceptic:



ManaFortress #14 Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:02 AM

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Since you (WG) are going over and rebalancing the other swedish tanks now to prepare for the upcoming swedish medium tanks,

i would suggest that you also throw an eye at the mid teirs swedish TDs.

 

These are tanks that where balanced around the "new" shell normalisation rules that where never implemented which is why the mid tier tanks where given super crappy dpm.

 

Additionally in supertest the IKV 90 Type B originally had its gun stats balanced around having an autoloader with a 3 shell clip. 

However the autoloader was removed right before the tanks went to live server,

but the gun handeling and dpm was not altered to make up for losing its autoloader and no futher testing was made.

(in WOT history single shot guns allways have better gunhandeling and dpm then its autoloader counterpart)

 

The tank now has the lowest win rate of all swedish tanks, i hope WG will come back to this vehicle and others like it,

to give it the improvements they should have added when they removed the autoloader.

 


Edited by ManaFortress, 08 March 2019 - 10:07 AM.


4ztec #15 Posted 08 March 2019 - 03:10 PM

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Doesn't look like a buff to me.

If that's your approach, please leave the line as it is. 3 shot autoloader without significant gun handling or penetration buff looks like a big joke to me.

The guns of the line are already very unreliable and you want to remove one shot from the magazine?

I'm really disappointed with your approach to rebalance the Emil line.

It looks like you rather want to sell your upcoming mediums instead.



gofastandrush #16 Posted 15 March 2019 - 10:36 AM

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What about Kranvagn's penetration ?
You can't talk about buff without buffing its pen.

Johny404 #17 Posted 18 March 2019 - 11:12 AM

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DPM buff is nice, but there still will be no point to play Kranvagn over Emil II, if you basically have to face worse opponents with same penetration values more often. Give Kranvagn more pen, because the result of higher DPM will be only more shot bounced.

Gatix #18 Posted 20 March 2019 - 01:34 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 28 February 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

Greetings Tankers! 

 

Welcome to the Supertest the preliminary versions of the updated Emil I (Tier VIII), Emil II (Tier IX), and Kranvagn (Tier X)!

 

All of these tanks have a well-armored turret, excellent gun depression, and a four-shell autoloader. Currently, the Swedish autoloader tanks are too much like those from other nations; their magazines inflict lots of damage but take long to reload. In this time the tanks stop being active combatants for a relatively long period of time. This is something we want to tweak.

 

The plan is to re-arrange the Scandinavians’ play pattern and make them reload faster—by shortening the full reload time and upping the alpha damage. The price is one round taken away from the clip. This way, your tank will find itself in the “just about to reload” state much more often and catching you with your gun down should become more complicated, hitting your adversaries faster and harder. Additionally, the top 120-mm gun in the branch will take less time between shots; together with other adjustments, this will bolster the Kranvagn’s damage per minute by more than 20%.

 

Spoiler

 

As always, these changes are not final, more may happen depending on test results. Make sure to follow the news and good luck in every battle!

 

Good Luck and Good Hunting! 

 

eek! 

 

In right place and moment this tank is very good, but most of us know it lack of choice (maps/over buffed new tanks). Maybe this buff going fix for now.

Clems54110 #19 Posted 23 March 2019 - 02:50 PM

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Yesterday I finally said goodbye to Kranwagn!
This is the most insignificant tank of level 10.
This “buff” will not save him.
The gun is so crooked that if from 4 shells you hit the target at least 1 time it will be well
At the ru forum, the WG recognized that Kranwagn is the worst HT in the game
And all they did was remove the shell ...
No one needs this drum if he cannot beat the target and hit it.
All that needs to be done will improve the stabilization of the gun to the level of the Soviet tank (they are best stabilized in the game) and increase the penetration because 300 is funny when Soviet tanks 300- 340 at the 9th level

But of course this will not happen because in this game Soviet tanks have always ruled and will rule.



reklakazala #20 Posted 23 March 2019 - 03:30 PM

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View PostOtherPlans, on 04 March 2019 - 12:21 PM, said:

I kinda agree with ZeFeKa: with these changes, you might be stepping on the T57's toes. The main problem I find with these tanks (which these changes don't really address) is the penetration and/or the gun handling. You have this great turret, but have to sit a lot to aim and when you fire, there's a good chance you won't pen or hit where you want to.

It's very tricky to deal with Types in this tank because, while you'd have the turret armor to bounce just about any other tank, you can't bounce the Type 4 and 5 :) And, with the pen and gun handling these tanks have, you have to sit and aim for Types' weakspots, which you still end up bouncing. Meanwhile, the Types and their very poorly balanced prem HE snap you for 500 to 600 dmg no matter where they hit. I've only gotten 1 warning in this forum and it's because I've expressed my deep dislike for the Types (still can't wait for those to be changed, I tell ya...).

 

I'd love for these Swedish heavies to fit well in the game and not make either the 50b or the t57 obsolete, but the pen and gun handling is too much to deal with sometimes. One of these has to change, imo.

 

Maybe improve the gun handling (keep long aim-time, just make accuracy better?) and give it only 2 shells? Or 3 shells with the same alpha as they have now?

 

14:33 Added after 3 minutes
Problem with type and few more tanks is because of missunderstanding game developers what is HEAT ammo. In game is represented as welding machine.
Adding space armor will not save you from HEAT ammo in reality, and in game will. So. Also, 100mm soviet and 105 nato penetrate about 350 mm armor and in 1960 115 mm soviet gun wipe almost 450mm.




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