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Pz.1C 8mm Mauser penetration is ruining the fun

Pz.1C 8mm Mauser Penetration Fun

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jabster #41 Posted 07 March 2019 - 02:38 PM

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View Postxx_Candlejack_xx, on 07 March 2019 - 01:36 PM, said:

 

No, because that dmg is usually the only good thing on those tanks, but if you miss you're dead. I already told why on my 3th. reply.

 

And if you hit it’s fun surely?



Tealo #42 Posted 08 March 2019 - 04:52 AM

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View PostHaZardeur, on 06 March 2019 - 05:55 PM, said:

 

 

Yes why wanna play this game as a new player in your little tank with 50% crew and no equipment vs vets with 3-5 skill crew tanks that have a huge effect on the tanks performance ? 

 

:unsure: You mean kind of like playing tier 10 agianst players who have improved eqiupment for bonds with a 6+ crew and some using aimbots... :sceptic:

xx_Candlejack_xx #43 Posted 08 March 2019 - 05:11 AM

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View Postjabster, on 07 March 2019 - 02:38 PM, said:

 

And if you hit it’s fun surely?

 

It gives me pleasure, yes... but It's rearly, that you can kill a Pz.1C even with a T3 Cruiser II's derp gun, with a single blow from front, a perfect side/ rear shot at point blank range is a whole different story though, but If you don't kill that Pz.1C with one blow... you sir... are dead for sure.

Orkbert #44 Posted 08 March 2019 - 04:45 PM

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View Postxx_Candlejack_xx, on 07 March 2019 - 02:36 PM, said:

 

No, because that dmg is usually the only good thing on those tanks, but if you miss you're dead. I already told why on my 3th. reply.

 

I notice that you keep on defending the derpguns with them not hitting their targets but miraculously assume that the Mauser of the I C magically keeps hitting and hitting despite having a sizable aim spread when it shoots its magazine empty.

 

Also you ignore all those tanks that don't have trouble with the Mauser but who are seriously threatened by a derpgun.

 

For my AMX 38 the Mauser (or any machinegun tank) is no trouble at all, but it is slow enough to get successfully targetd by derpguns. Maybe I should start a thread crying about the Crusader II needing a nerf, eh?

 

I suggest you re-read the rules about rock-paper-scissors.



xx_Candlejack_xx #45 Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:23 AM

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View PostOrkbert, on 08 March 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

 

I notice that you keep on defending the derpguns with them not hitting their targets but miraculously assume that the Mauser of the I C magically keeps hitting and hitting despite having a sizable aim spread when it shoots its magazine empty.

 

Also you ignore all those tanks that don't have trouble with the Mauser but who are seriously threatened by a derpgun.

 

For my AMX 38 the Mauser (or any machinegun tank) is no trouble at all, but it is slow enough to get successfully targetd by derpguns. Maybe I should start a thread crying about the Crusader II needing a nerf, eh?

 

I suggest you re-read the rules about rock-paper-scissors.

 

Well I'm not defending derp guns, so your noticing was wrong. I was ask if they shoud be removed and I answered the question. Having a tank with derp gun was only a example. Problem is getting killed with any tank less then 33mm of armor, before you can even react to it and getting half of the team decimated before they can get of 100m from the basecircle when enemy team has 2 or more Pz.1C's with 8mm MG, that has 40 rounds/magazine and shoots about 182r/min (little over 3 rounds a second)and that just rush in. Nerfing the MG a bit would surely effect those rushings. Everybody can think what they want, but that is not my opinion of fun. You wanna make a thread to complain about derp guns? Ok go ahead. It's your right to do if you feel so.

ChernoGamma #46 Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:45 AM

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Removing of the apcr ammo from the 8mm mauser can be enough nerf for a pz1c. Most of the players are playing without apcr, because it is too expensive. But there are some idiotish seal clubber as sholes, whos are shooting apcr constantly with that mauser, and this is dissapointing players.

 

And dont blame players at tier 3. That is the last more or less fair tier. Tier 4 and higher is constantly playing against +2 tier higher enemyes. And that is much more annoying, than the pz1c.


Edited by ChernoGamma, 09 March 2019 - 11:54 AM.


Laatikkomafia #47 Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:46 AM

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Meanwhile your most played tier 3 can use a superior autocannon while also getting a derp gun.

 

Looking at your stats, your win rate with Cruiser II is 59,59%, whereas with the Pz I C you have 55,70%. If the Pz I C's gun is so OP and broken, how come you win less with it?



xx_Candlejack_xx #48 Posted 09 March 2019 - 11:53 AM

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View PostLaatikkomafia, on 09 March 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

Meanwhile your most played tier 3 can use a superior autocannon while also getting a derp gun.

 

Looking at your stats, your win rate with Cruiser II is 59,59%, whereas with the Pz I C you have 55,70%. If the Pz I C's gun is so OP and broken, how come you win less with it?

 

Because I don't play with 8mm MG, I play with 20mm cannon. I've already stated this and what do any stats or win rates has to do with anything in this topic? I may not be very good with fast scout tanks and like to play more heavys, TD's and slower pasted tanks.

View PostChernoGamma, on 09 March 2019 - 11:45 AM, said:

Removing of the apcr ammo from the 8mm mauser can be enough nerf for a pz1c. Most of the players are playing without apcr, because it is too expensive. But there is some idiotish seal clubber as sholes, whos are shooting apcr constantly with that mauser, and this is dissapointing players.

This could help.



Orkbert #49 Posted 09 March 2019 - 12:06 PM

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View Postxx_Candlejack_xx, on 09 March 2019 - 11:23 AM, said:

 

 Problem is getting killed with any tank less then 33mm of armor, before you can even react to it

 

You know that very sentence can also be applied to derp guns.

 



xx_Candlejack_xx #50 Posted 09 March 2019 - 12:13 PM

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View PostOrkbert, on 09 March 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

 

You know that very sentence can also be applied to derp guns.

 

 

Yes, but it's easier to avoid to get hit by a derp gun and if the derp gun doesn't kill you or it misses, then 9/10 times in 1 vs 1 situation you will kill the derp, but that won't happen when you get head to head with Pz.1C with 8mm MG.

Laatikkomafia #51 Posted 09 March 2019 - 12:13 PM

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View Postxx_Candlejack_xx, on 09 March 2019 - 12:53 PM, said:

 

Because I don't play with 8mm MG, I play with 20mm cannon. I've already stated this and what do any stats or win rates has to do with anything in this topic? I may not be very good with fast scout tanks and like to play more heavys, TD's and slower pasted tanks.

This could help.

 

So you use the autocannon with higher penetration, more reliable damage output with the price of losing 50 DPM?

 

Quite hypocritical if you ask me.



xx_Candlejack_xx #52 Posted 09 March 2019 - 12:17 PM

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View PostLaatikkomafia, on 09 March 2019 - 12:13 PM, said:

 

So you use the autocannon with higher penetration, more reliable damage output with the price of losing 50 DPM?

 

Quite hypocritical if you ask me.

Yes I do and what's hypocritical abut it? It rarely kills anything with one mag in it's own tier, so atleast it gives your opponent some time to react and a change.



Orkbert #53 Posted 09 March 2019 - 12:26 PM

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View Postxx_Candlejack_xx, on 09 March 2019 - 12:13 PM, said:

 

Yes, but it's easier to avoid to get hit by a derp gun and if the derp gun doesn't kill you or it misses, then 9/10 times in 1 vs 1 situation you will kill the derp, but that won't happen when you get head to head with Pz.1C with 8mm MG.

 

You keep repeating that the derpgun won't hit like a mantra.

 

You also said nothing about the tanks that don't have problems with the Pz.I C but on the other hand the derpguns are a threat to them.

 

Maybe if you stop being biased that much we could get a meaningful discussion started.



Frostilicus #54 Posted 09 March 2019 - 12:26 PM

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View Postxx_Candlejack_xx, on 09 March 2019 - 11:17 AM, said:

Yes I do and what's hypocritical abut it? It rarely kills anything with one mag in it's own tier, so atleast it gives your opponent some time to react and a change.

 

The idea is to kill other players, "fair" is a concept that doesn't apply - you don't want to give your opponent any chance to react, if they can counter, fine, if not, bye bye ;)

xx_Candlejack_xx #55 Posted 09 March 2019 - 12:39 PM

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View PostOrkbert, on 09 March 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

 

You keep repeating that the derpgun won't hit like a mantra.

 

You also said nothing about the tanks that don't have problems with the Pz.I C but on the other hand the derpguns are a threat to them.

 

Maybe if you stop being biased that much we could get a meaningful discussion started.

 

I keep talking about derp guns, bacause peoples keep bringing them up and why would I bring up tanks that doesn't have a problem? Obviously deprs can deal a lot of damage, but they are fragile and easy to kill. Pz.1C is not. Like I stated before... you can't kill Pz.1C even with derp from front with one shot unless you get really lucky, hell, you can't kill it from the side most of the time. It's fast, it's durable, it has good camo... etc. I've already stated this a few times. Pz.1C swarms at the beginnig of the matches are ruining the fun, but because you can't tell peoples that they can't do that, because they still will, then other means need to be used. Nefrfing the 8mm MG or removing the APCR would definitely do so.

Laatikkomafia #56 Posted 09 March 2019 - 01:08 PM

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The Mauser pen values: 25-41 mm with AP, 32-54 mm with APCR. (33 mm and 43 mm without RNG) 

The Flak pen values: 29-49 mm with AP, 38-64 mm. (39 mm and 51 mm without RNG)

 

Against 30 mm of armor, the Mauser fails to pen 29,4% of AP shells. 0 % of APCR shells.

Against 30 mm of armor, the Flak fails to pen 4,8 % of AP shells, 0 % of APCR shells.

 

Against 35 mm of armor, the Mauser fails to pen 58,8 % of AP shells, 13 % of APCR shells.

Against 35 mm of armor, the Flak fails to pen 28,5 % of AP shells, 0 % of APCR shells.

 

Against 40 mm of armor, the Mauser fails to pen 88,2 % of AP shells, 34,8 % of APCR shells.

Against 40 mm of armor, the Mauser fails to pen 52,4 % of AP shells, of 7,4 % APCR shells. 

 

Those values are true, if all pen values are as likely to be rolled. If they follow a Gaussian curve, it doesn't really help the Mauser either, as 30-36mm of pen isn't that much, even at tier 3. Looking at armor values of tier 3s, they seem to hover around 35mm, which the Flak is more than capable of penetrating reliably.

 

Thus the hypocrisy claim.

 

EDIT: Cruiser II gets 47 mm / 110 mm of penetration with the derp. If you can't pen a Pz I C with 30mm of armor with that amount of pen, you should learn to aim.


Edited by Laatikkomafia, 09 March 2019 - 01:11 PM.


xx_Candlejack_xx #57 Posted 09 March 2019 - 01:11 PM

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View PostLaatikkomafia, on 09 March 2019 - 01:08 PM, said:

The Mauser pen values: 25-41 mm with AP, 32-54 mm with APCR. (33 mm and 43 mm without RNG) 

The Flak pen values: 29-49 mm with AP, 38-64 mm. (39 mm and 51 mm without RNG)

 

Against 30 mm of armor, the Mauser fails to pen 29,4% of AP shells. 0 % of APCR shells.

Against 30 mm of armor, the Flak fails to pen 4,8 % of AP shells, 0 % of APCR shells.

 

Against 35 mm of armor, the Mauser fails to pen 58,8 % of AP shells, 13 % of APCR shells.

Against 35 mm of armor, the Flak fails to pen 28,5 % of AP shells, 0 % of APCR shells.

 

Against 40 mm of armor, the Mauser fails to pen 88,2 % of AP shells, 34,8 % of APCR shells.

Against 40 mm of armor, the Mauser fails to pen 52,4 % of AP shells, of 7,4 % APCR shells. 

 

Those values are true, if all pen values are as likely to be rolled. If they follow a Gaussian curve, it doesn't really help the Mauser either, as 30-36mm of pen isn't that much, even at tier 3. Looking at armor values of tier 3s, they seem to hover around 35mm, which the Flak is more than capable of penetrating reliably.

 

Thus the hypocrisy claim.

 

Well then it's the APCR that need to be removed.

Laatikkomafia #58 Posted 09 March 2019 - 01:18 PM

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View Postxx_Candlejack_xx, on 09 March 2019 - 02:11 PM, said:

 

Well then it's the APCR that need to be removed.

 

In that case, should the derp pen of the Cruiser II be lowered to 33mm as well?



xx_Candlejack_xx #59 Posted 09 March 2019 - 01:19 PM

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View PostLaatikkomafia, on 09 March 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

 

In that case, should the derp pen of the Cruiser II be lowered to 33mm as well?

 

Sure, why not just to be fair.

Laatikkomafia #60 Posted 09 March 2019 - 01:20 PM

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View Postxx_Candlejack_xx, on 09 March 2019 - 02:19 PM, said:

 

Sure, why not just to be fair.

 

And the 110mm pen HEAT removed as well?





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