Jump to content


The Big STB-1 and Leopard 1 Discussion

STB Leopard Gameplay Mediums News Update

  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

Poll: How to improve STB and Leo (read in the post) (22 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Do you agree with STB improvements?

  1. Yes (100% or partially) (11 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. No (11 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

Do you agree with Leo improvements?

  1. Yes (100% or partially) (17 votes [77.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 77.27%

  2. No (5 votes [22.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.73%

Vote Hide poll

arthurwellsley #21 Posted 10 March 2019 - 01:52 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 53383 battles
  • 3,772
  • [-B-C-] -B-C-
  • Member since:
    05-11-2011

I agree with the majority of posters in this thread and disagree with the OP, the STB should not have it's turret armour buffed. Instead we should wait and see if it gets the siege mode in the same way that the new Swedish mediums will have, because in real life it had hydraulic suspension.

 

Leopard 1 needs gun handling buffs so better dispersion, better velocity and better penetration, all of which it pays for by having terrible armour. This again is what the Leopard 1 was designed around in real life, it was supposed to shoot a couple of invading USSR mediums, run away somewhere and repeat the process. Essentially it was supposed to keep reducing the overwhelming USSR numbers and keep retreating (if necessary all the way back to the Channel) whilst waiting for the USA reinforcements to arrive. That was the NATO battle plan if the Warsaw Pact invaded the west.



Wildcatze #22 Posted 10 March 2019 - 01:53 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 33274 battles
  • 35
  • [NLR] NLR
  • Member since:
    08-03-2013

   Once again, Essentially the STB performs very poorly today because of 2 reasons:

1) the turret isn't reliable, in comparison with m48, m60/ centurion, because not only that you can be penned with standard AP and APCR shells from the other tier X tanks in the weak spots, but you can also be penned straight in the gun mantle and also beneath the gun, all the way to your turret ring.

2) the gun is very very poor, the bad combination of long aiming time and bad gun dispersion values result in a real aiming time of up to 3.5 seconds, which in most cases results in a miss. You can not count on that when you don;t have armor at all. a FV4005 has better gun stats and it can aim faster than you in the STB, and it can also one shot you with HESH through the gun mantle. Well that is not cool.

How to fix them?

1) giving it pneumatic suspension would be cool, yes, but in the end if you can't hit and pen sh**t, then your tank is equally useless as it was before.

2) STB needs the most to have a reliable gun characteristics. In my original description, I have proposed gun values that would not make the tank better than the other 390 alpha mediums in tier X, but it will bring the STB in line, so it can become a decision that you will take based on your taste, rather than a decision between a good and a bad tank. In the end: the best thing that Wargaming could to to the STB is to improve the gun characteristics and also give it pneumatic suspension for improved gun depression and elevation.

 

   Leopard 1 on the other hand, from my point of view, after playing more than 1k battles in it and having 2 marks of excellence on the gun, I can say with all my heart that it is the tank I would love the most, if they would be able to bring it closer to the reality. It is supposed to be a support tank and a very good sniper. If it was easy for Wargaming to give K-91 ridiculous pen and accuracy just because it is a new tank, why not do the same with Leo, which historically possessed these traits on the battlefield.

   Therefore, the leo needs better gun handling while moving and rotating, better acceleration, better view range and cammo.

If you compare the leo's dimensions, if you equip it with all the best consumables, crew and equipment, you get a maximum of 31 cammo. Obj140 on the other hand has the same dimensions, but has 34 camo, only with standard equipment and crew skills. Obj 140 does have the armor to withstand a shell, Leo does not. 


Edited by Wildcatze, 10 March 2019 - 01:55 PM.


MrEdweird #23 Posted 10 March 2019 - 02:43 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 21328 battles
  • 405
  • [-FUR-] -FUR-
  • Member since:
    08-19-2011

I don't mind the turret having unreliable armor and am against giving every single tier 10 medium reliable armor, because that's just boring. Point is, it just doesn't have much in terms of competetive features.



Dragos_CS #24 Posted 10 March 2019 - 02:43 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 20213 battles
  • 2,016
  • [FAME] FAME
  • Member since:
    04-14-2011

The only reason the STB turret armor seems to be so bad is because the soft stats of the tank force you to expose for way longer than a patton for example, while the pennable area is the same. Like many other tanks, what it needs is better dispersion. 0.10/0.10/0.08 is what i would say would make it come in line with the other T10 meds, nothing else. Is it a copypasta of the patton and CAX? Kinda. But id rather see this than another failed redesign (rip 30b) or yet ANOTHER armor buff. Armor buffs can go to hell, learn to not get shot.

The Leo is another issue. Its design philosophy is represented quite well in the game, but the playstyle is completely out of meta.

What the leo should have, as the T10 med with the worst platform, is the best gun: 1.7s aimtime, 0.06/0.06/0.06 (which sound better than they are, since the tank is fast), 0.25 acc and 285/350 pen. All while maintaining the 0 effective armor and bad camo.

Also the 430U needs an armor nerf, its just stupid. Shave 10 or 20mm off the UFP or something.



MrEdweird #25 Posted 10 March 2019 - 02:51 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 21328 battles
  • 405
  • [-FUR-] -FUR-
  • Member since:
    08-19-2011

View PostDragos_CS, on 10 March 2019 - 01:43 PM, said:

The only reason the STB turret armor seems to be so bad is because the soft stats of the tank force you to expose for way longer than a patton for example, while the pennable area is the same. Like many other tanks, what it needs is better dispersion. 0.10/0.10/0.08 is what i would say would make it come in line with the other T10 meds, nothing else. Is it a copypasta of the patton and CAX? Kinda. But id rather see this than another failed redesign (rip 30b) or yet ANOTHER armor buff. Armor buffs can go to hell, learn to not get shot.

The Leo is another issue. Its design philosophy is represented quite well in the game, but the playstyle is completely out of meta.

What the leo should have, as the T10 med with the worst platform, is the best gun: 1.7s aimtime, 0.06/0.06/0.06 (which sound better than they are, since the tank is fast), 0.25 acc and 285/350 pen. All while maintaining the 0 effective armor and bad camo.

Also the 430U needs an armor nerf, its just stupid. Shave 10 or 20mm off the UFP or something.

 

Yeah, basically.

It used to be that the DPM would compensate somewhat for the gun handling, but being as is everything seems to be overarmored these days, the lower pen and the handling combined kinda negate a lot of that DPM.

Other than the suspension change, which would probably mean more than -10 but less than -10 while moving and a dispersion buff, there's probably not much more they can or should do,



WindSplitter1 #26 Posted 10 March 2019 - 03:57 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 18728 battles
  • 3,133
  • [ORDEM] ORDEM
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016

View PostMrEdweird, on 10 March 2019 - 03:35 AM, said:

 

A more preferable situation for me would be removing the current tier 6, moving the Chi-Ri down (or keeping the tier 6 and making the Chi-Ri a prem), making the STA-1 be a faster Eagle 7 with less armor, giving the Type 61 the 90mm it actually had at tier 8, moving the STB-1 to tier 9 and giving it less DPM and adding the Type 74 (or STB-6) to tier X with appropriate changes to gun handling and the new suspension.

 

This

Wildcatze #27 Posted 10 March 2019 - 04:35 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 33274 battles
  • 35
  • [NLR] NLR
  • Member since:
    08-03-2013

I see that we all agree on the fact that STB needs better gun handeling, the rest could remain the same, if at least you could use the gun properly.

I wonder why there are so many players against improving the STB.



Nishi_Kinuyo #28 Posted 10 March 2019 - 04:50 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 8397 battles
  • 5,654
  • [GUP] GUP
  • Member since:
    05-28-2011

View PostRilleta, on 10 March 2019 - 03:57 PM, said:

 

This

A premium Chi-Ri at tier 6 might actually be fun for skirmishes...



MrEdweird #29 Posted 10 March 2019 - 04:54 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 21328 battles
  • 405
  • [-FUR-] -FUR-
  • Member since:
    08-19-2011

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 10 March 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

A premium Chi-Ri at tier 6 might actually be fun for skirmishes...

 

I rather meant that the Chi-Ri be buffed a bit (probably engine power and a few other things) and made a tier 7 premium so that the current tier 6 can remain where it is and the STA-1 can go down to tier 7 with nerfs.

Chi-Ri would be entitely OP as it is at tier 6, unless they nerf the autoloader, but I guess it could work.


Edited by MrEdweird, 10 March 2019 - 05:05 PM.


WindSplitter1 #30 Posted 10 March 2019 - 04:55 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 18728 battles
  • 3,133
  • [ORDEM] ORDEM
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 10 March 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

A premium Chi-Ri at tier 6 might actually be fun for skirmishes...

 

So desune.

Rupert99 #31 Posted 25 March 2019 - 03:33 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 17575 battles
  • 9
  • [TEC] TEC
  • Member since:
    12-09-2012
If it's such a big discussion why isn't WG doing anything?

blockypanzer #32 Posted 25 March 2019 - 07:05 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 18230 battles
  • 51
  • [I_B] I_B
  • Member since:
    03-05-2013

View PostRupert99, on 25 March 2019 - 02:33 PM, said:

If it's such a big discussion why isn't WG doing anything?

 

Either they forgot they ever promised to buff these tanks back in December (my guess), or they are planning some fairly major reworks to the tech trees that are taking time. While I hope the latter is the case, I'm pessimistic. Expect it to not come in 2019, and next year it will be back to them saying that buffing the Leopard 1 even a little would make it OP, while its stats currently place it bottom, or 2nd bottom (Rhm Panzerwagen says hello occasionally) out of all tier X tanks.

 

WG's balance department seems to consist of one employee, who comes to work for one day a year, spends 7 hours of it in the cafeteria, and uses the remaining hour to remove some weakspots from already overperforming Russian meds and heavies before calling their work done and going back to 364 days of vacation. 

 



Wildcatze #33 Posted 26 March 2019 - 12:39 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 33274 battles
  • 35
  • [NLR] NLR
  • Member since:
    08-03-2013

I would like to hear more opinions. From the pool I see that there are more people loving the leopard than STB :)

I would be happy if at least they will reduce the gun dispersion penalties in such a manner that I will not hate my life for grinding those tier X mediums.







Also tagged with STB, Leopard, Gameplay, Mediums, News, Update

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users