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Short 88mm L/56 on Tiger 131 (and Jap Tiger)


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RadioFighterYR #1 Posted 13 March 2019 - 05:57 PM

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Greetings here, a Jap Tiger player here. Also planning to play the German Tiger at some point too.

The standard AP penetration for the short 88 is 145mm. I mean, come on! The short 88 was the best anti-tank gun until the long 88 on the King Tiger appeared. Give it at least 170mm(-ish) penetration. The Soviet 122 has lower shell velocity and historically only relied on the mass of its shells to perform well against armor, but somehow it does penetrate more. How?



StuffKnight #2 Posted 13 March 2019 - 06:19 PM

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Soviet bias Game balance.

Laatikkomafia #3 Posted 13 March 2019 - 06:28 PM

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According to Wikipedia, the short 88 has 132mm of AP penetration at 100m against a plate angled 30 degrees. IIRC, it was the pen the short 88s had in WoT.

 

That is 152mm of penetration against flat armor in WoT.

 

So at first, you tell how historically great the gun was (which I admit, was). And after that, you want unhistorical pen values?


Edited by Laatikkomafia, 13 March 2019 - 06:28 PM.


Bracciano_gatto #4 Posted 13 March 2019 - 06:57 PM

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The 88L56 pen was 132mm at one point before being buffed to 145mm some time ago.

 

Both tier 6 premium Tigers perform well against same or lower tiers, not so much against higher ones; as expected.



Kothaar #5 Posted 14 March 2019 - 10:30 PM

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In real life they faced T-34 tanks with at most 60 mm of armor and mostly late model KV tanks with similar armor values. Until 1944 when Is-2 appeared it had no problem penetrating opponents at any angle, even from the front.

But this game is a "bit" different, the Tiger faces fantasy tanks with massive amounts of armor.

Soviet tank guns are vastly overpovered in this game. In real life the the 75 mm gun of Stug and Panzer IV was better than even the Russian 85 mm gun. The Russian 122 mm gun was a howitzer modified for installation in a tank, whereas the German long 88 mm/71 gun was a real anti tank weapon developed for tanks from the beginning.


Penetration and damage are the result of energy of the shell. German 88 mm guns put a lot of energy into their shells. This game seems to think that the bigger the diameter of the shell, the more damage. Not so.
 


Edited by Kothaar, 14 March 2019 - 10:33 PM.


Laatikkomafia #6 Posted 14 March 2019 - 11:00 PM

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View PostKothaar, on 14 March 2019 - 11:30 PM, said:

In real life they faced T-34 tanks with at most 60 mm of armor and mostly late model KV tanks with similar armor values. Until 1944 when Is-2 appeared it had no problem penetrating opponents at any angle, even from the front.

But this game is a "bit" different, the Tiger faces fantasy tanks with massive amounts of armor.

Soviet tank guns are vastly overpovered in this game. In real life the the 75 mm gun of Stug and Panzer IV was better than even the Russian 85 mm gun. The Russian 122 mm gun was a howitzer modified for installation in a tank, whereas the German long 88 mm/71 gun was a real anti tank weapon developed for tanks from the beginning.


Penetration and damage are the result of energy of the shell. German 88 mm guns put a lot of energy into their shells. This game seems to think that the bigger the diameter of the shell, the more damage. Not so.
 

 


If the WW2 lasted a bit longer, the Tigers could have actually faced JS-3s.


This topic is about the short 88. The Tiger was build and developed around the cannon. The cannon wasn't developed for the tank.

 

The Soviet 122mm fired 25 kg shells at 800 m/s muzzle velocity. That is 8000 kJ of muzzle energy.

The German long 88 fired a 10,4 kg shells at 1000 m/s muzzle velocity. That is 5200 kJ of muzzle energy.

As higher mass also means higher energy conservation (Force / Mass = Acceleration), in the case of a peneration, the Soviet 122mm would most likely deal a lot more damage.

 

Besides, how many hit points of an IS-2 did the short 88 take away in WW2?



Innapropriate_Username #7 Posted 07 April 2019 - 02:52 PM

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View PostLaatikkomafia, on 13 March 2019 - 06:28 PM, said:

According to Wikipedia... bla bla...

 

SOVIET BIAS.

FAKE fantasy OP values for soviets, while German Tigers get WORSE than in REAL HISTORY armor, shells, everything worse than in real life history:

But soviet MUD GUARDS become MAGIC 30mm ARMOR PLATE, that is THICKER than whole Tiger roof in this game:

 

But but... muh Stalinium, Germans had "poor steel", yeah?

 

Just give some more FANTASY 100mm armor buffs to soviets, Germans need to stay "Worse than in History"

 

SHOW ME SOVIET tier10 HEAVY TANK THAT HAS 200mm WEAKSPOTS ON TURRET FRONT:

 

When will Panther get 200mm armor Buff on turret ??

 

 

This SOVIET BIAS is only in this broken game, any other game and there is no STALINIUM MAGIC 30mm armor, no soviet MAGIC shells, nothing, in other games everything is perfectly balanced

LOOK AT IT - Look at better ARMORED sideskirts on Tiger, while IS3 has NOTHING, and in other game - IS3 is HIGHER TIER than Tiger2 !!!!

 






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