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A better solution for the SPG issue

spg artillery rework

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Bert_da_Derp #1 Posted 23 March 2019 - 12:43 PM

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Dear Dev. Team !

 

I hope you read this, because I'm starting to be very confused about your ideas about artillery. At first, it was a dagame dealer against heavy tanks. Then with the stun, it became a real stunning assistant. Now what will it be? Not really a damage dealert, nor stunner. Let me share my idea witch combines the two roles so artillery will be effective against heavy tanks but not that overpowered against smaller tanks. I'm going to call this: Dynamic damage

 

At first, reduce the armor penetration for all artillery, so the maximum would be let's say 40mm for the tier10 artillery. Thus, only the really open topped o paper armored vehicles would be victims of one-shot kills. Also increase the splash radius, but reduce the splash burst (as you are planning now) but with a more significant level. Also increase reload time with a small amount and increase the accuracy.

 

Now comes the hard part but in short: make damage higher for heavy tanks and lower for lighter tanks and for the stun it should be the oposite, less stun for heavies and more for lights. So in short, the artillery should be dealing more damage towards enemy heavy tanks, that are harder to destroy for your allies OR shoot enemy light tanks but instead of damaging them, the stunning effect should be increased while the damage should be lowered. Thus the artilery will be still effective against heavy tanks, but not against lights. No lights would be one-shot by artillery unless it hits it directy on a weakspot that can be penetrated OFC, but that is one in a million.

 

This way, the artillery player can decide how to assist his team: Stunning the enemy lights and forcing them to fall back OR deal damage to the enemy heavy tanks to make the advancing of your team easier. BUT artillery will be unable to repeatedly stun enemy heavy tanks, thus removing them from the game AND one-shot enemy light tanks just because they use a common bush or get spotted. 

 

So use the vehicles weight and hull armor for the calculations. The higher the weight+armor, the higher the damage and lower the stun. An average damage for artillery in tier10 I say should be around 600-700. For light tanks, even if it hits, the damage should be lower, but the stunning should be somwhere around 20-30 sec. Keep in mind please I also suggested a higher reload time as well, so we could keep the DPM roughly the same for the 15:00 minute gameplay.



OMG_Abaddon #2 Posted 23 March 2019 - 01:26 PM

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Doesn't matter, the problem with artillery is that it can't be countered. All you can do is hope RNG makes shots miss you so their arty has no effect on the game, zero damage, etc. But there's literally nothing you can actively do to force an arty player into a defensive position, or having to flex, or anything.

 

The only fix that can be applied IMO would be turning arty into mortars, make them light tanks that can't shoot on the move, but once they deploy siege mode they get a lot of rate of fire, added range and the air camera (which wouldn't be available in non-siege mode). Force these players to move with the rest of the team, make them weak vs flankers, remove their abilty to shoot anywhere on the map from base where they can't be spotted, put them in a place where they have to use the keyboard for something other than googling cat gifs while waiting for a 40 second reload.

 

That would fix arty, but they would remove the essence of what they've been thus far.



PayMore #3 Posted 23 March 2019 - 01:34 PM

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View PostOMG_Abaddon, on 23 March 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

Doesn't matter, the problem with artillery is that it can't be countered. All you can do is hope RNG makes shots miss you so their arty has no effect on the game, zero damage, etc. But there's literally nothing you can actively do to force an arty player into a defensive position, or having to flex, or anything.

 

The only fix that can be applied IMO would be turning arty into mortars, make them light tanks that can't shoot on the move, but once they deploy siege mode they get a lot of rate of fire, added range and the air camera (which wouldn't be available in non-siege mode). Force these players to move with the rest of the team, make them weak vs flankers, remove their abilty to shoot anywhere on the map from base where they can't be spotted, put them in a place where they have to use the keyboard for something other than googling cat gifs while waiting for a 40 second reload.

 

That would fix arty, but they would remove the essence of what they've been thus far.

 

Arta is easy to counter if you use the terrain to your advantage, use the speed of your tank, dont camp in the open etc etc

Bert_da_Derp #4 Posted 23 March 2019 - 02:48 PM

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View PostBert_da_Derp, on 23 March 2019 - 12:43 PM, said:

Dear Dev. Team !

 

I hope you read this, because I'm starting to be very confused about your ideas about artillery. At first, it was a dagame dealer against heavy tanks. Then with the stun, it became a real stunning assistant. Now what will it be? Not really a damage dealert, nor stunner. Let me share my idea witch combines the two roles so artillery will be effective against heavy tanks but not that overpowered against smaller tanks. I'm going to call this: Dynamic damage

 

At first, reduce the armor penetration for all artillery, so the maximum would be let's say 40mm for the tier10 artillery. Thus, only the really open topped o paper armored vehicles would be victims of one-shot kills. Also increase the splash radius, but reduce the splash burst (as you are planning now) but with a more significant level. Also increase reload time with a small amount and increase the accuracy.

 

Now comes the hard part but in short: make damage higher for heavy tanks and lower for lighter tanks and for the stun it should be the oposite, less stun for heavies and more for lights. So in short, the artillery should be dealing more damage towards enemy heavy tanks, that are harder to destroy for your allies OR shoot enemy light tanks but instead of damaging them, the stunning effect should be increased while the damage should be lowered. Thus the artilery will be still effective against heavy tanks, but not against lights. No lights would be one-shot by artillery unless it hits it directy on a weakspot that can be penetrated OFC, but that is one in a million.

 

This way, the artillery player can decide how to assist his team: Stunning the enemy lights and forcing them to fall back OR deal damage to the enemy heavy tanks to make the advancing of your team easier. BUT artillery will be unable to repeatedly stun enemy heavy tanks, thus removing them from the game AND one-shot enemy light tanks just because they use a common bush or get spotted. 

 

So use the vehicles weight and hull armor for the calculations. The higher the weight+armor, the higher the damage and lower the stun. An average damage for artillery in tier10 I say should be around 600-700. For light tanks, even if it hits, the damage should be lower, but the stunning should be somwhere around 20-30 sec. Keep in mind please I also suggested a higher reload time as well, so we could keep the DPM roughly the same for the 15:00 minute gameplay.

 

You are a simple arty hater with zero ideas and tolerance. Next time if you write something, think.... 

Gruff_ #5 Posted 23 March 2019 - 03:59 PM

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View PostOMG_Abaddon, on 23 March 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

Doesn't matter, the problem with artillery is that it can't be countered.

 

Your own artillary can counter them, x seconds in to the game and through out, scouts and meds can spot/kill them, you have movement on your side and plenty of maps/terrain to help also.

Boy_with_Apple #6 Posted 23 March 2019 - 07:09 PM

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View PostGruff_, on 23 March 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

Your own artillary can counter them, x seconds in to the game and through out, scouts and meds can spot/kill them, you have movement on your side and plenty of maps/terrain to help also.

 

Artillery in my opinion make the game more balanced and the first thing i do when i play any SPG tanks and i have a few.  Is to look to the fire lines from the enemy artillery and I shoot just behind them and often kill them. Having a good artillery player on your team is a must. If you spot well and artillery do not use your spotting then it's so hard to win.So stop it some of you having a go at artillery and start maybe getting one of your less exciting players to cover their asses..I do this when i have not got as tank to 100% crew trained or got the gun or turret I need, I will often have a more defencive game and stay by the artillery players and watch the rest of the players leave one flank open and help stop their prams with a gun run around and kill artillery and the let the other know it's clear to come in and help themselves to the base. Stupids play i often like that and artillery are left for dead, when working with them will so many time guarantee the game is so much more in your favor. Work as a unit if not a team or platoon. Help each other and like spotters are of grate use in a team so are artillery. 

 



Laatikkomafia #7 Posted 23 March 2019 - 07:12 PM

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View PostBert_da_Derp, on 23 March 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

 

You are a simple arty hater with zero ideas and tolerance. Next time if you write something, think.... 

 

Is it fun to play the everyone's favorite, "Punch yourself in the face" game?

Gladiusetscutum85 #8 Posted 23 March 2019 - 07:26 PM

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View PostOMG_Abaddon, on 23 March 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

Doesn't matter, the problem with artillery is that it can't be countered. All you can do is hope RNG makes shots miss you so their arty has no effect on the game, zero damage, etc. But there's literally nothing you can actively do to force an arty player into a defensive position, or having to flex, or anything.

 

The only fix that can be applied IMO would be turning arty into mortars, make them light tanks that can't shoot on the move, but once they deploy siege mode they get a lot of rate of fire, added range and the air camera (which wouldn't be available in non-siege mode). Force these players to move with the rest of the team, make them weak vs flankers, remove their abilty to shoot anywhere on the map from base where they can't be spotted, put them in a place where they have to use the keyboard for something other than googling cat gifs while waiting for a 40 second reload.

 

That would fix arty, but they would remove the essence of what they've been thus far.

 

Can't be countered?  Why is it I die so often in arty from EVERY other type AND from arty then?  LTs and wheeled wonders early on, MTs, TDs and HTs mid to late game.  And if you have an arty player on your team who knows what they're doing, it's right from as soon as they're loaded too.  An individual arty has little or no defence against any of that.

As for "remove their ability to shoot anywhere on the map from base where they can't be spotted" that's about the only advantage they do have (except that it misses the fast lights and wheelies who can often get to the arty before the arty is even loaded) - no speed, no armour, no view range, no manoeuvrability, sometimes a tenth of the fire rate and no turret on most.  Plus the fact that that ability to shoot across the map means a FAR longer flight time than any other type with all that means for (lack of) accuracy.  If an arty shoots at a stationery target on the far side and hits it, should the target not have moved by then, thus wasting maybe 30 to 454 seconds of the arty's time loading and aiming?  On top of that it's a valuable shell from what is often a very restricted rack that has done nothing.



psychobear #9 Posted 23 March 2019 - 11:24 PM

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Arty doesn't need defense against anything. They're just shitting on everybody from complete safety for most of the time, taking no risk at all, as there's no viable counter to them whatsoever. 

DangerMouse #10 Posted 24 March 2019 - 12:14 AM

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Give them something else to do, option to load smoke shells to cover an advance or something, reduce pen to 0mm and stop them from being about damage dealers.

Tha_Truth #11 Posted 24 March 2019 - 01:56 AM

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Arti is not powerfull at all at the moment. No changes needed.

 

i dont understand why they even removed AP and heat from arti.

if a players chooses to shoot AP with arti, 0 splash damage + chance of bounce/no-pen. And if there is a hit -> no stun, no splash.

and if a player chooses HE, much less damage compared to AP, anyway. 

 

I believe its allot of fuss about nothing.

 

Fix bugs maybe? 

when someone invites me, or i invite someone. the invite stays active, and keeps repeating even if we press decline. It has been like that for Years. Have to logout to remove the bug.

server 1 chat bugs where the clan list sometimes fail to update, also years without permanent fixes.

 

 

 



Asklepi0s #12 Posted 24 March 2019 - 10:46 AM

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Due to the high number of Artillery threads, we want discussions to take place in the main pinned thread here.





Also tagged with spg, artillery, rework

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