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Wheeled tanks are really spoiling the game


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CNS97 #1 Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:11 PM

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I think introduction of wheeled tanks really spoiled the game. There is no balance to the game with wheeled tanks. They are really fast and quite destructive while compared to other light tanks. 

Edited by CNS97, 26 March 2019 - 05:15 PM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #2 Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:16 PM

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They're also blind so you'll see them coming long before they see you.

Sfinski #3 Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:17 PM

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Faaar less than arties and over buffed heavies(especially those with derps).

barison1 #4 Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:29 PM

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destructive? what.

their guns are mostly downgrades over the normal LT ones



lnfernaI #5 Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:59 PM

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Lol.

voodoospirit #6 Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:08 PM

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destructive...seriously? the T10 one has 190 pen.....the other t10 lights have 230+ pen...... the t9 is sub par too and the t8 is ok pen wise. 

the balance in the game is HE in their face and they die fast.

the only ones who miss my wheelies are sub 50% wr players who can t aim properly.....all the others....i have 70/90% to get hit and i usually get spotted before i can spot anything.

 

my regular lights ( tracks ones) are harder to get hit because they are more nimble at full speed and not some bricks that can go straight but have a larrrrrgggeeeeeee turning radius.



Jigabachi #7 Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:23 PM

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Any addition to the game without the core problems getting fixed before that will be a problem, even if it's just a minor one.

 

But besides that: Play some of those WTs and you'll soon rethink your standpoint here.


Edited by Jigabachi, 26 March 2019 - 06:24 PM.


Celution #8 Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:16 PM

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They aren't by any means what can be considered "overpowered". They are however, broken by design. I understand that WG wanted them to be unique, but in all honesty, the vehicles having a completely different movement mechanic is already unique enough. No need to make them incredibly gimmicky in a lot of ways. A serious revision of these vehicles should be considered, as it's a combination of many things that create gameplay issues.

 

To sum up the issues:

 

  • Ludicrous top speed, both forward/reverse.
  • Comical agility (laws of physics, momentum, etc)
  • Ultra-high shell velocity on the standard APCR shells.
  • Practically no gun dispersion (reticule bloom) even at top speeds.
  • Gimmicky hitbox in relation to the visual size and suspension (wheels).

 

Because of the things above, the vehicles are gimped in other statistics:

 

  • Low base view range.
  • Low penetration on APCR/HEAT.
  • High penetration and damage on HE.
  • Poor DPM potential.
  • Low hitpoints.

 

So why are these things an issue? 

 

There are various reasons.

 

  • Prior to the introduction of these vehicles, there was a "speed ceiling" of how fast teams could reach certain positions on maps. Thus, map dynamics have changed entirely due to these vehicles. For some maps it's barely noticeable, for others it means a complete change in how the map works. This problem increases vastly from tier 8 to tier 10. At tier 8 the speed ceiling was increased by 15-33%, at tier 9 this was 21-33% and at tier 10 an astonishing 26-46%.
  • This increased speed ceiling in turn reduces the time for action to start, thus it it is likely to further reduce the average battle duration. Certain passage ways may be cut off earlier on due to the forward spotter and second line sniper combo. This means fewer tanks can reach forward positions and thus may affect map dynamics.
  • The ultra-high shell velocity in combination with practically no gun dispersion at all make it extremely easy to hit (moving) targets whilst being on the move. No, I am not taking the enhanced auto-aim into consideration, since it does not affect this. The ultra high top speed and agilty make it in turn difficult to retaliate. It's simply said not fun to get hit by these things much like artillery or high-caliber HE derp guns. It's both frustrating and toxic as you generally feel the "lack of skill" needed to pull it off.
  • Dumb movements and poor player choices are not punished the way they are for any other thing in this game. As a matter of fact, the combination of the things listed above promote this kind of gameplay. I'll elaborate:
    • These vehicles are completely immune to a very important gameplay feature of this game: immobilising.
    • The low base view range and ludicrous speed/agility combination scream for what is known as "suicide scouting".
    • Wonky hitboxes with the seemingly large visual profile of these vehicles result in countless "critical hits" that do exactly nothing.
  • Combine the things above with extremely easy-to-use gun stats and you may see another issue: the tanks are extremely forgiving to play. Where light tanks need to consider things such as "do I keep moving or do I slow down to snap in a shot or two?" and "do I passive scout or active scout?", these vehicles don't require any of that thought process whatsoever.

 

What can be done?

 

There is absolutely no need for these vehicles to be a gimmick and have their statistics all over the place that all-in-all have a negative impact on the overall gameplay.

 

  • Nominal top speeds of 60-70 km/h (cruise) and 70-80 km/h (rapid) and overall less agility (slower acceleration and actual reduction in momentum when performing turns and climbs), whilst retaining the unique feature of having identical forward/reverse speeds.
  • Ordinary gun handling statistics (raw aim time, gun dispersion) that force the player to either perform scouting OR fire-support, not both simultaneously.
  • Regular base view range values that fit with the overall gameplay.
  • More competitive gun statistics in terms of penetration and DPM potential, whilst retaining the trademark feature of high penetration HE shells.
  • Reworked hitboxes that include the centre of the wheels (the steel rims) to be part of the vehicle hitbox that can receive damage.

 

TL;DR:

 

These vehicles are broken by design and it makes no sense that their statistics are all over the place, whilst also being extremely unnecessary. The unique movement physics combined with the fact that they are "the first wheeled vehicles" make them unique enough, there was no reason to make them a gimmick other aspects.



DorsVenabiIi #9 Posted 26 March 2019 - 08:10 PM

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I mean sure they're annoying and you can't track them, but they haven't ruined the game, they're far less diseased than arty, type5 derp, fv4005 derp etc.

WoT_RU_Doing #10 Posted 26 March 2019 - 08:19 PM

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Actually I was just thinking how much more enjoyable the game has been this week, as I've had very few battles including wheeled vehicles. I guess that now the events have ended, the novelty has worn off.

lnfernaI #11 Posted 26 March 2019 - 08:22 PM

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View PostCelution, on 26 March 2019 - 08:16 PM, said:

[...]

I wish posts like these were much more common,I cannot describe how accurate and factually true this viewpoint is.



voodoospirit #12 Posted 26 March 2019 - 08:55 PM

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dont worry, that leave room for tuning in  other countries.

german or british wheels: less speed/better pen gun/less precise gun/more VR.



CyberRage #13 Posted 26 March 2019 - 09:17 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 26 March 2019 - 04:16 PM, said:

They're also blind so you'll see them coming long before they see you.

 

Only true on open maps, on a lot of maps you can never use 400m+ view range unless someone is stacking camo net + bush bonuses which only really applies to a small subset of light tanks and tds.

DeadLecter #14 Posted 26 March 2019 - 09:49 PM

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They are definitely broken and they are destroying the game. I don't think it's their top speed that is the problem. It's the mentality that they have set in the minds of players that they are supposed to be fast active spotters, and when you look at them, up to tier 9 they are not that much fast then traditional light tanks and they sacrifice a huge amount of VR and gun power for that mobility. Usually in a lot of matches, they are dead within 30 seconds, they want to be the first to get in position, they get in position then die by the hands of the enemy team. If someone manages to survive till  the last part of the game and if the team is competent enough to win the battle then they are super super dangerous. In all other scenarios they are far worse than traditional lights. And they are actually easy to hit. Of course you won't hit them as often as other LTs but still they are not difficult to kill. And with the idea of a fast scout, people try to do crazy things which leads to them getting in bad positions a lot which leads to their death. They should have not been added to the game. Maps are small and these tanks are way too fast for these maps. But then again this is WG. The same company with the world's most amazing developer team that limits arty to 1 per zone in FL which means 1 arty for 9 tanks but allows 3 arty per team in randoms which means 1 arty per 4 tanks. And the map is much smaller and they think this is OK. So when such company has such giant brain behind it, don't except them to make rational decisions.

Sharian #15 Posted 26 March 2019 - 10:04 PM

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The only thing i like about the wheeled vehicles is how many times they tumble when they get shot and die at top speed, it is spectacular :trollface:

Edited by Sharian, 26 March 2019 - 10:04 PM.


cicis2016 #16 Posted 26 March 2019 - 10:20 PM

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View PostCNS97, on 26 March 2019 - 05:11 PM, said:

I think introduction of wheeled tanks really spoiled the game. There is no balance to the game with wheeled tanks. They are really fast and quite destructive while compared to other light tanks. 

 

its diferent and thats why u dont like it

Richthoffen #17 Posted 26 March 2019 - 10:23 PM

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not overpowerd, not that hard to get rid off.. the only thing i don't enjoy about them is the map design, they can get really fast in a position where digging them out requires long and full exposure to enemy guns while they proxy spot everything that comes near them

Homer_J #18 Posted 26 March 2019 - 10:27 PM

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View PostSharian, on 26 March 2019 - 09:04 PM, said:

The only thing i like about the wheeled vehicles is how many times they tumble when they get shot and die at top speed, it is spectacular :trollface:

 

Yeah, they added in a little bunnyhop when they die for some reason.  Even stationary they jump slightly.  The effect at full speed has obviously been done for the drama.

erotic_hamster #19 Posted 26 March 2019 - 11:00 PM

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Wheeled vehicles are OP just look at the HE penetration and speed. They are impossible to hit and they can single handedly kill an entire flank with a few runs and shots.

They always kill other lights and make it impossible to spot. They kill heavies with HE from behind and they run from mediums and kill artillery with easy yolo.



lnfernaI #20 Posted 26 March 2019 - 11:42 PM

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View Posterotic_hamster, on 27 March 2019 - 12:00 AM, said:

Wheeled vehicles are OP just look at the HE penetration and speed. They are impossible to hit and they can single handedly kill an entire flank with a few runs and shots.

Complete and utter nonsense. Maybe you need to work on your target leading?






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