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Italian tanks on Console


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Desyatnik_Pansy #1 Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:32 PM

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So I apologise in advance for what I'm sure is a bit of a weird thread. I'm posting it solely because a Console guy wanted to see what PC Players thought of the nerfs to the Italian tanks that just dropped today on Console and I don't believe he has a PC Account to post with. I'm well aware Console has a lot of tanks different from ours, different maps, they've even kept some things like the Waffle and all that jazz.

However, despite those differences (which I'm not denying are important when considering balance), I would like to purely focus on the changed stats of the Italian tanks and try to ignore those differences.

Spoiler

 

Oh and, it's not included on the list (someone on the Console forums made it, you wouldn't find me sitting down and comparing the stats :P), but the Progetto 46 Also of course got nerfed to basically the same reload as the Pantera, though I'm not sure if it has the same thing on PC Of having the different second/first shell reloads. 


Edited by Desyatnik_Pansy, 26 March 2019 - 05:32 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #2 Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:47 PM

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Two considerably different games, the feedback you'll be getting from WOT PC players will be inaccurate to say the least.

Desyatnik_Pansy #3 Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:53 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 26 March 2019 - 04:47 PM, said:

Two considerably different games, the feedback you'll be getting from WOT PC players will be inaccurate to say the least.

 

I personally don't agree that they're that significantly different games, but that's not really the topic. I do agree though, the feedback will be inaccurate, but I believe my Console friend still just wants to see how PC Players think of nerfs such as the Tier X From a base reload of 9.6 to 13, or a full shell reload of 64 Seconds

Edited by Desyatnik_Pansy, 26 March 2019 - 05:53 PM.


Balc0ra #4 Posted 26 March 2019 - 05:54 PM

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View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 26 March 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

So I apologise in advance for what I'm sure is a bit of a weird thread. I'm posting it solely because a Console guy wanted to see what PC Players thought of the nerfs to the Italian tanks that just dropped today on Console and I don't believe he has a PC Account to post with. I'm well aware Console has a lot of tanks different from ours, different maps, they've even kept some things like the Waffle and all that jazz.

However, despite those differences (which I'm not denying are important when considering balance), I would like to purely focus on the changed stats of the Italian tanks and try to ignore those differences.

 

The thing to keep in mind is that console is made and balanced by a different studio "bought up and renamed after the 360 version went out of beta". Independent from WG. So their idea where to take WOT differs. Heck they even have the WT auf E100 still, and have ignored most buffs and nerfs PC do on some tanks. But follow up on others. So their meta and balance are way different vs PC. They don't even sell the same premiums.

 

That said, a DPM nerfs on the tier 6 and 7 Italians with over 200 would server no purpose on PC. They are not even that strong. And in our meta vs console it would cripple them more so than help I suspect.


Edited by Balc0ra, 26 March 2019 - 05:55 PM.


Desyatnik_Pansy #5 Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:03 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 26 March 2019 - 04:54 PM, said:

That said, a DPM nerfs on the tier 6 and 7 Italians with over 200 would server no purpose on PC. They are not even that strong. And in our meta vs console it would cripple them more so than help I suspect.

 

I think the Tier VI/VII Are kinda strong but not that they stand out well above the other tanks in their tiers. Mind you, I didn't much like them myself, so maybe I view them differently.



Gkirmathal #6 Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:18 PM

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View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 26 March 2019 - 04:32 PM, said:

 

Oh and, it's not included on the list (someone on the Console forums made it, you wouldn't find me sitting down and comparing the stats :P), but the Progetto 46 Also of course got nerfed to basically the same reload as the Pantera, though I'm not sure if it has the same thing on PC Of having the different second/first shell reloads. 

 

Well IMO the PC line does stand out as being a little bit better than most mediums tier for tier. The nerfs on the stats the console got, in that respect I can follow where they came from. Looking pure at stats, tier for tier and balance.

 

But one could also argue if the PC Italian mediums shouldn't be the new benchmark, one which one measures how balanced a medium should be across the tiers. Purely when looking that stats.

 



Desyatnik_Pansy #7 Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:26 PM

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View PostGkirmathal, on 26 March 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

Well IMO the PC line does stand out as being a little bit better than most mediums tier for tier. The nerfs on the stats the console got, in that respect I can follow where they came from. Looking pure at stats, tier for tier and balance.

 

IMO, the only Italian tanks that really stand out for their tiers as being a bit too powerful are the Progetto 46 and Pantera, mostly the former. Mind you, that's without looking at stats and whatnot but just my personal opinion.

 

View PostGkirmathal, on 26 March 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

But one could also argue if the PC Italian mediums shouldn't be the new benchmark, one which one measures how balanced a medium should be across the tiers. Purely when looking that stats.

 

As far as I'm aware, this is what has been used to explain atleast the Progetto 65 Nerfs.

Spoiler

 



kubawt112 #8 Posted 27 March 2019 - 09:36 AM

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View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 26 March 2019 - 06:26 PM, said:

 

IMO, the only Italian tanks that really stand out for their tiers as being a bit too powerful are the Progetto 46 and Pantera, mostly the former. Mind you, that's without looking at stats and whatnot but just my personal opinion.

 

Actually looking at the winrate curves, the Progetto does stand out, but (at a glance), not more than the T-44-100, LT-432, Lorraine 40t, Somua SM, 50TP Prot or 252 (didn't bother looking at tech tree vehicles at T8, for good reasons).

Dunno how the matchmaker is in console-WoT; if it is less harsh than on PC I could very well see how the mentioned tanks would be problematic - they're specifically disgusting when top-tier, after all.
 

 

View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 26 March 2019 - 06:26 PM, said:

As far as I'm aware, this is what has been used to explain atleast the Progetto 65 Nerfs.

Spoiler

 

 

 

Interesting. I have a feeling that comparing PC to console and an auto-reloader to (mostly) normal tanks wouldn't make sense, but it's still interesting if this is what is used for balancing.



tajj7 #9 Posted 27 March 2019 - 09:58 AM

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IMO the strongest possibly borderline OP tank is the Progetto at tier 8, can't see how any of the rest of them are.

 

I literally do not see the point of that nerfed tier 10 Progetto, 13s one shot reload for a tank with 360 alpha when something like a Super Conq has an 8s reload for 400 alpha and a 5A has an 11s reload for 490, but they think a paper tank with 360 needs tier 5 DPM as a single shot.

 

Like what is the point of that tank compared to a TVP? (I am presuming they have a TVP), the time it takes to reload just TWO shells is about 4s longer than the TVP takes to reload 4 shells, thus making the auto-reloader concept completely pointless. TVP is approaching being able to cycle 3 full clips in the time it takes that Progetto to do one, which is just silly.

 

In WOTs PC there is IMO no way that Progetto 65 or Standard B is even close to OP, they are paper tanks and paper tanks at higher tiers, however good their firepower are just not very effective. 

 

As said above, if the tier 8 MM was fixed and the Progetto 46 and Panterra started seeing more tier 6s and 7s regularly, maybe there would be an issue, but again, Vk 1001 P, Defender, O-Ho etc. seeing more lower tiers would be more OP. 



gpalsson #10 Posted 27 March 2019 - 10:12 AM

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Looks like a pretty heavyhanded nerf. I don't understand why they wouldn't do it in smaller increments. Oh well, it's console so who cares?


Edited by gpalsson, 27 March 2019 - 10:16 AM.


Nishi_Kinuyo #11 Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:20 PM

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Their balancing is just...

Spoiler

 



MeetriX #12 Posted 27 March 2019 - 12:49 PM

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What is this console you're speaking of?

On many games you can activate console by pressing "~" but I doubt it work on WoT. :P



Kuraikage #13 Posted 27 March 2019 - 05:46 PM

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View Postkubawt112, on 27 March 2019 - 08:36 AM, said:

Dunno how the matchmaker is in console-WoT; if it is less harsh than on PC I could very well see how the mentioned tanks would be problematic - they're specifically disgusting when top-tier, after all.

 

Less harsh and yet just as much at the same time in a way.

It doesn't get 3-5-7 MM however it struggles with server population (As far as I'm aware it was struggling to even hit let alone maintain 10k across all Servers) so you endlessly get put in bottom tier matches not to mention Ops, similar to Missions which just encourage people to five man platoon 131's with PMM and Tier X Levels of DPM (Not Progretto 65 DPM at least).

 

And if there is any kind of Tier X Ops on, you just avoid playing VIII at all.

 

View Posttajj7, on 27 March 2019 - 08:58 AM, said:

I literally do not see the point of that nerfed tier 10 Progetto, 13s one shot reload for a tank with 360 alpha when something like a Super Conq has an 8s reload for 400 alpha and a 5A has an 11s reload for 490, but they think a paper tank with 360 needs tier 5 DPM as a single shot.

 

Like what is the point of that tank compared to a TVP? (I am presuming they have a TVP), the time it takes to reload just TWO shells is about 4s longer than the TVP takes to reload 4 shells, thus making the auto-reloader concept completely pointless. TVP is approaching being able to cycle 3 full clips in the time it takes that Progetto to do one, which is just silly.

 

Oh don't worry the TVP got nerfed too.

DPM got nerfed by 18.36% and the Intra-Clip Reload got lowered to 1.5 before oddly being changed to 1.7.

 

So yeah, the TVP can get off two clips on Console in the time it would take the Console Progretto 65 to reload but it wont manage 3 like the PC TVP.



Desyatnik_Pansy #14 Posted 27 March 2019 - 06:21 PM

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View PostKuraikage, on 27 March 2019 - 04:46 PM, said:

DPM got nerfed by 18.36% and the Intra-Clip Reload got lowered to 1.5 before oddly being changed to 1.7.

 

Wasn't it originally 1.5? 



Kuraikage #15 Posted 27 March 2019 - 06:25 PM

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View PostDesyatnik_Pansy, on 27 March 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

Wasn't it originally 1.5? 

 

My mistake.

Changed from 1.5s to 1.8s then back to just 1.7s



evilchaosmonkey #16 Posted 27 March 2019 - 06:30 PM

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Those are heavy nerfs.

On the console is the 46 a premium tank? 

Hoping that as others have hinted, once MM is fixed I can expect to devour lower tiers more often and fix my appalling win rate in this tank.



Desyatnik_Pansy #17 Posted 27 March 2019 - 06:48 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 27 March 2019 - 05:30 PM, said:

On the console is the 46 a premium tank? 

 

Yes, though it's referred to as the "Ariete 46" because it's only the skinned version atm. I'm pointing that out since,

View Postkubawt112, on 27 March 2019 - 08:36 AM, said:

Interesting. I have a feeling that comparing PC to console and an auto-reloader to (mostly) normal tanks wouldn't make sense, but it's still interesting if this is what is used for balancing.

 

I found the thread on it which also shows the graph for VIII and IX. Nothing for anything else, though I'm less interested in the lower tier stuff anyway.

Spoiler

 

 






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