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PZIII medium as a scout


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ninjafroggie #1 Posted 29 August 2010 - 07:02 AM

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PZIII is an excellent scout, and can circle-strafe at close range with the 75mm and he shells...wont be as effective at knocking out modules after the patch, but used right you can easily beat lone pzIVs and KVs to death, as well as royally rape artillery

ninjafroggie #2 Posted 29 August 2010 - 08:08 AM

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well, like i said, it can royally rape arty.  It has good top speed, good high end acceleration, low hight profile, and the 75mm HE does alot of hurt to arty.

vs125r #3 Posted 29 August 2010 - 09:22 AM

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Yes i use it as purely a scout/arty hunter. In camping-novka I used to run around at enemy base and spot for arties. It has a chance to bounce incoming shells, and wouldnt be one-shotted by heavies (cept T10, i never encountered those in my pz3 playtime).

Gun selection is up to you, some prefers the 75mm, some swears on the 50mm long barrelled. Its up to your playstyle.

my 2 cents

Kaperan #4 Posted 29 August 2010 - 04:08 PM

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PzIII is a good tank for scouting and it a soild match to the Leopard, but it lacks one important thing...HORSEPOWER... the PzIII will bleed off speed must faster the a leopard and where speed is life for a scout once the PzIII is force into a turning fight, it don't take long before it's sitting still and it take way to long to get back up to speed.

also must ppl that say the PzIII is a better scout then the leopard most times is just using it as a stepping stone to the next teir tank.

leofwine #5 Posted 29 August 2010 - 04:41 PM

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View PostKaperan, on 29 August 2010 - 04:08 PM, said:

PzIII is a good tank for scouting and it a soild match to the Leopard, but it lacks one important thing...HORSEPOWER... the PzIII will bleed off speed must faster the a leopard and where speed is life for a scout once the PzIII is force into a turning fight, it don't take long before it's sitting still and it take way to long to get back up to speed.

also must ppl that say the PzIII is a better scout then the leopard most times is just using it as a stepping stone to the next teir tank.

Using my PzIII as a scout I rarely noticed the speed dropping on tight turns, if anything it would still be in the 50kmph+ region, and I was able to weave quite happily at 60-63kmph without losing much, if any, speed. Big drawback is if something makes you stop such as terrain, engine damage or track damage, or if you are dramatically slowed down, such as soft/boggy terrain which is a problem for all vehicles. Then you're stuffed. The slow acceleration 0-30kmph will get you killed if you're near the enemy.

On the whole its a pretty decent scout. I used it armed with the 7.5cm L/24 loaded solely with HE as it was damned effective, could 1-hit kill other PzIIIs if you were lucky enough, normally took them down to 10% or so, and on the whole I found it to be more fun than the Leopard, which I just didn't take to.

Sturmtiger_304 #6 Posted 29 August 2010 - 05:37 PM

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View Postleofwine, on 29 August 2010 - 04:41 PM, said:

Using my PzIII as a scout I rarely noticed the speed dropping on tight turns, if anything it would still be in the 50kmph+ region, and I was able to weave quite happily at 60-63kmph without losing much, if any, speed. Big drawback is if something makes you stop such as terrain, engine damage or track damage, or if you are dramatically slowed down, such as soft/boggy terrain which is a problem for all vehicles. Then you're stuffed. The slow acceleration 0-30kmph will get you killed if you're near the enemy.

On the whole its a pretty decent scout. I used it armed with the 7.5cm L/24 loaded solely with HE as it was damned effective, could 1-hit kill other PzIIIs if you were lucky enough, normally took them down to 10% or so, and on the whole I found it to be more fun than the Leopard, which I just didn't take to.

As leofwine wrote is very much true state of the PzIII.
You have to be REALLY good at noticing the terrain infront of you before you start to strafe hit the heavies / arty.

I've gone into a lot of trees & walls becouse I wasn't paying much attention to the surroundings.
I just thinked: I must not get into that turret's PoV...!
The speed acceleration is terrible up hills, that will mostly kill your tank in any cases, whenever it's against a Heavy medium or artillery.

You will start encountering your own type, I know it's weaknesses & strenghts, so I have the biggest advantage over my enemy.

Start shooting the tracks, once those are down, it's a free kill.
If you're good, aim for the turret itself.

But as with all 50mm, you can't really kill the heavies untill you're 4 meters away from them, looking at they're back with you're gun & start mashing that mouse button like a frantic.

leofwine #7 Posted 30 August 2010 - 02:52 AM

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View PostkoVe, on 30 August 2010 - 12:58 AM, said:

I thought the high traverse meant that it wouldn't lose speed much on turning


So the acceleration is crap in the tank?

Only from 0-30kmph, 31kmph-63 is rather quick, its just sluggish from the initial acceleration, which is why you never stop or slow down in a PzIII whilst you're on the go. Manouverability is key, and if it means swerving between a King Tiger, a PzIV and a JagdPanther just to get past, do it  :Smile_honoring: I did, and I think it surprised them when I did it (the back road round the edge of the town on Lakeside, got the final curve to the other teams base and there were the above on the road rolling towards me, so like an sensible tanker I zig-zagged through them, 75mm gun blazing. Made it through as well! :Smile-playing: )

LordBerk #8 Posted 30 August 2010 - 04:41 AM

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P3 kicks ass as a scout. It's the best choice imo.

Vaderan #9 Posted 31 August 2010 - 07:07 PM

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Despite it´s tier, the Pz III is a great tank imo. Fast, good turning rate, moderate armor and punch. I personally recommend the 50mm L60 (long 50mm gun). I lacks the damage of the 7,5 cm L24, but it has a decent penetration for it´s caliber (67mm with standard ap-armor, over 100mm with premium). For the fact, that many higher tier tanks don´t take you for a serious thread, you can do quite an amount of damage by circling heavier tanks, especially when their drivers don´t manage to keep up their turret traverse spped with your circling speed.
I only sold my Pz III because i needes the garage space. It was a hard decision.

Xenogears #10 Posted 31 August 2010 - 07:13 PM

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View PostVaderan, on 31 August 2010 - 07:07 PM, said:

Despite it´s tier, the Pz III is a great tank imo. Fast, good turning rate, moderate armor and punch. I personally recommend the 50mm L60 (long 50mm gun). I lacks the damage of the 7,5 cm L24, but it has a decent penetration for it´s caliber (67mm with standard ap-armor, over 100mm with premium). For the fact, that many higher tier tanks don´t take you for a serious thread, you can do quite an amount of damage by circling heavier tanks, especially when their drivers don´t manage to keep up their turret traverse spped with your circling speed.
I only sold my Pz III because i needes the garage space. It was a hard decision.

I dont know why you would go for penetration when the 50mm doesn't penetrate anything, I only found this tank usefull with the 75mm and HE rounds.
I used the leopard fully upgraded with a good crew and couldn't stand it, went to the pz3 with the 75 and was getting far more kills on arty etc. Even killed some big stuff like a ferdinand.

Vaderan #11 Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:56 PM

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Maybe i stay with that 50mm because it historically was meant to be the anti tank gun for the Pz III. It take it as a challange to flank an enemy tank and hit his side or rear instead of shooting 75 mm HE-rounds, what in my opinion is nothing else then bug using at this state of the game. The 75mm L24 gun was used as an anti-infantry gun, and imo it should just stay that way.
But, i know, this is not about historical correctness, this is about doing damage, scoring kills, earning credits and exp, and yes, in a ridiculous way, the 75mm gun with HE shells might do a better job for that as long as you miss the skill to handle the 50mm L60, no offence.

At least, it´s always the players choice and maybe a question of style, skill and personal preferences. So i just prefer the 50mm L60, as i was asked for =)

theta0123 #12 Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:06 PM

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Once the game gets released, i am buying this farm tank for recruit battles :Smile_honoring:

metraton #13 Posted 02 September 2010 - 05:36 PM

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PZ III is a good semi-scout, but Leopard is better as a "pure" scout: with Leo you just have to spot and run waiting for others to shoot and eventually take down one arty, with PZ III you can eventually dogfight (but in a pure 1 vs 1 a Leo should almost always beat a PZ III)

michaelius #14 Posted 03 September 2010 - 02:39 PM

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View PostKingTiger, on 31 August 2010 - 07:13 PM, said:

I dont know why you would go for penetration when the 50mm doesn't penetrate anything, I only found this tank usefull with the 75mm and HE rounds.
I used the leopard fully upgraded with a good crew and couldn't stand it, went to the pz3 with the 75 and was getting far more kills on arty etc. Even killed some big stuff like a ferdinand.

I spent almost 300 battles in PIII and 5cm L60 is much better choice. It can penetrate all the artilery, all scout tanks, sides and rears of tier 5-6 tanks, has no problem killing TDs (i killed almost as many Marders/Hetzers/Su-76/85 in mine as SPGs).

@metatron- Leo wins 1vs1 only if we think about them in vacuum on battlefield you will be usually chasing enemy scout tanks and here front armor of PIII is great advantage.

zephyx #15 Posted 10 September 2010 - 10:26 AM

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PzIII made a great scout for me. Its 75mm HE cannon is very inaccurate at anything but close range but its great for circle strafing SPGs, and TDs. then getting out of danger.

gameskevin2 #16 Posted 12 September 2010 - 04:38 PM

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pz3 is an excellent scout, if not the best.
i have played over 350 games with the pz3 and more than 250 with the leopard...
the pz3 has the same firepower, better traversespee, more armor etc. and is nearly as fast as the leopard
pz3 is the best scout tbh.
a20 (also over 100 games) is te worst of these 3 formidable scouts.

Morrigan #17 Posted 17 September 2010 - 03:04 PM

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View Postmetraton, on 02 September 2010 - 05:36 PM, said:

PZ III is a good semi-scout, but Leopard is better as a "pure" scout: with Leo you just have to spot and run waiting for others to shoot and eventually take down one arty, with PZ III you can eventually dogfight (but in a pure 1 vs 1 a Leo should almost always beat a PZ III)
PzIII+75mm/HE with extra grousers and torsion bars will eat the Leo's lunch.

metraton #18 Posted 17 September 2010 - 04:16 PM

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View PostMorrigan, on 17 September 2010 - 03:04 PM, said:

PzIII+75mm/HE with extra grousers and torsion bars will eat the Leo's lunch.

except for the fact that - though Leo and PZ III have both the same AWFUL side armor (30) - Leo has 90 HP more than the PZ III and 50 mm cannon of the Leo has a much better ROF than the 75mm of the PZ III.

hence, since dogfights between scouts are fought almost always just running in circles (so exposing side to shots), this means that 1vs1 of PZ III and leo (both fully upgraded and bot using HE with 50mm leo and 75mm PZIII, obviously) still should be in favor of a Leo. And my direct experience until now seems to confirm that.

Morrigan #19 Posted 20 September 2010 - 01:49 AM

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View Postmetraton, on 17 September 2010 - 04:16 PM, said:

except for the fact that - though Leo and PZ III have both the same AWFUL side armor (30) - Leo has 90 HP more than the PZ III and 50 mm cannon of the Leo has a much better ROF than the 75mm of the PZ III.

hence, since dogfights between scouts are fought almost always just running in circles (so exposing side to shots), this means that 1vs1 of PZ III and leo (both fully upgraded and bot using HE with 50mm leo and 75mm PZIII, obviously) still should be in favor of a Leo. And my direct experience until now seems to confirm that.
So your experience and mine regarding Pz3 versus Leopard disagree. Apparently I've been fighting only the bad Leo drivers.

Tripolius #20 Posted 20 September 2010 - 01:22 PM

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Lol the Leo and PZIII are both GREAT Scout tanks and both great dogfighters. they each just have there own style of play...

I personally am a pure scout player and I use both of these tanks as my main scouts :) and i love them both and I play them both all the time..

Leo build
Fully upgraded/ Gun laying drive /Coated Optics/ and Crew Vent... This is how my leo is built and with a 100% crew it rocks that 50mm L60 is a arty killing beast with that gun laying drive.... I can auto aim any stationary target and score 75% hit ratio from 200m at a speed of 60-68 kmh..... The maybach 157H the leo has is what makes it the pure scout its HP helps the leo weave and bob inbetween terrain features and tanks like your an allstar running back.. another high point the leo has is its size and armor layout. with 50/30/20 hull and 50/30/30 turret the armor is weak but it is very sloped which will help more than you think if you stay close to weaker tanks and far away from the stronger ones youll notice alot of bounces with any tank lower than t6... any higher than t6 they can pretty much ignore your slopped 30mm side armor :). But at least your armored and its sloped which will help you survive those lucky TD and HT shots youll recieve sometimes on a flanking charge etc... As with most tanks in this game if you get tracked in the leo ur dead... The leo has a pooooor repair rate with treads... seems like leo crew is drunk and cant figure it out sometimes  :D Overall the Leo is #1 Pure Scout and if played right can really turn the tide of any battle... Although sometimes the balance system is slightly harsh sometimes and puts you in with 3 IS7's and a maus  :blink: might as well find a bush and sit :)

PzIII Build
Fully upgraded/ Crew Vent/ Add Grousers(big improvements)/ rammer. This is my PzIII build with a 100% crew. Personally I kinda call this my "skirmisher tank" I use it in a scout/support role. With great speed and agility(crew at 100% and additional grousers is a must for this) the PzIII can easily out manuever any tank with skill. As for which gun to use lol easy choice is the 50mm L60 and before i just state this ill show my reason for picking the 50 over the 75...here it is btw this argument is using Reg AP rounds... If you use gold APCR rounds the 50mm is even more of a better choice

Gun 5cm KwK39 L/60
Standard Penetration= 47-87mm with a max pen of 130.
Standard Damage= 49-91
ROF= 27.27 RPM
Accuracy at 100m= 0.35... With a 100% gunner this is a huge advantage over the 75mm B)

Gun 7.5cm KwK37 L/24
Standard Penetration= 30-56mm with max of 100.
Standard Damage=  77-143
ROF= 16 RPM....
Accuracy at 100m= 0.48

Now taking in the information above I cant possible see how the 75 is better I mean with a ROF twice as fast as the 75 the 50 is better in DPS (Damage per second) I mean average out the numbers and do the stats. 50mm = Avg DMG of 70 with a ROF at 27.27 RPM so thats 1900 DMG a min if its 100% hits (AVERAGE NOT EXACT lol)
                          75mm = Avg DMG of 110 with a ROF at 16 RPM so thats 1760 DMG a min if its 100% hits (AVERAGE NOT EXACT)
                       Now remember this is if its a 100% hit with penetration so now also look at the stats the 50mm has HIGHER penetration and HAS higher accurace with a HIGHER ROF
                       SO with the 50 you have ALOT more chance to hit the target with penetration which means more dmg.... and the play style of the pzIII the success of dealing dmg on
                       the run is the success of your mission as a light scout skirmisher :) so just my two cents and why I use the long 50mm

The PzIII has more armor than the leo but has less HP so to me it evens out in the HP/Armor area

SO these are my thoughts on the 2 tanks... I love them both If I were driving myself 1v1 with the leo and pzIII It would probobly end 50/50 lol because I know the weaknesses and advantages of the two.. it all matters on who out manuevers the other and if one or the other get tracked or not... but Thats the beauty of the game because with skill  and luck you can take down alot of things you never thought so there ya go. Have fun and happy tanking! :Smile-izmena:




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