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Type 4 / 5 Heavy supertest changes

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leggasiini #1 Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:22 PM

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Type 4 (14cm)

 

Type 4 (15cm)

 

Type 5 (14cm)

 

Type 5 (15cm)

 

I don't play the game anymore so I had no plans to return to forums...but Types are being changed and anything related to Japanese tanks insta-summons me :^)

 

Basically what they are doing is that they are nerfing the f*ck out of the derp gun, while giving the AP gun slight buffs and buffing their mobility as well in return.

 

While the derps didn't exactly get completely removed, they got shat on really hard. Standard alpha goes from 1100 to 900, while the premium HE becomes HESH with 750 alpha and around 190mm of penetration. Other than slight movement bloom buff, no other stats were changed. As their reload is unchanged, the Type 4 has about the same reload as KV-2 with worse HE pen, 10 less alpha and no AP shells, in return of better accuracy, velocity and having (useless) HESH instead of AP shells, and Type 5 is still outclassed by O-Ho in terms of reload, gun handling and availability of AP shells (which are IMO superior to the HESH shells of the Types). So basically, Type 4's derp is arguably inferior to KV-2's, while both Types have worse derps than the O-Ho. Basically it seems like they are going with KV-85 122mm approach - instead of removing the gun altogether, they keep it but nerf it into oblivion to the point where it's pretty useless. This change is great, as IMO the derps should've been never introduced in the first place. It's the closest we get to the full removal of the guns.

 

In addition, the 14cm gun gets a pen buff, and Type 5's version of it gets a fairly nice bloom buff. The gun isn't going to be still amazing, but the pen buff combined with bloom buff is going to make it at least good enough. It also helps that Type 5's mobility gets buffed, as it gets better engine, traverse speed and reverse speed, which should make it bit more comfortable to play. Between that and the fact it retains the huge HP pool and thicc armor, it should be a solid middle ground between the E 100 and Maus like it was originally meant to be.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that while the derp premium shell has less alpha than the standard, the alpha of 14cm's premium shell isn't decreased so I actually don't think this is directly related to the premium ammo changes, there's a probability we see this earlier than that.

 

No armor changes though which sucks, but derps getting trashed and AP gun getting buffed is f*cking great. WG actually got 2 out of 3 necessary areas that needed to be fixed on Types (15cm nerf/removal, armor rework and 14cm buff) right, or well, at least they did them somewhat right. Glad to see that after 4 years the AP gun Type 5 is finally viable. 

 

I still think that WG should do two additional changes to the Types:

 

  • make the weakspots (the hatches and cupola) weaker, lower them both by around 20-30mm
  • buff the 14cm gun bit further, increase the DPM and/or buff the penetration a bit more

 

With that change the Types would finally be more or less fixed. But hey, WG's proposed change is still a step in the right direction.


Edited by leggasiini, 29 March 2019 - 07:00 PM.


Lord_Edge #2 Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:26 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 29 March 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:

Basically what they are doing is that they are nerfing the f*ck out of the derp gun

 

Hahahahahaha, nope :(

 

Sadly this is a flat out buff to WG's wallet, you see the standard HE ammo was already underpowered for it's tier in order to force people to buy gold rounds in order to be competitive, now they are making it ever worse to punish people even more for not using gold rounds.

 

The gold rounds on the other hand are being buffed to do more damage on non penetrating shots (AKA the vast majority of shots) :(



Dr_Oolen #3 Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:30 PM

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Well, its something. Even if the retardproof weakspotless armor stays, at least the derps are nerfed into being worse than the AP guns... so yay! Though i wouldnt be surprised if people continued using the derps... afterall it will be the same like E100 full HE basically, except with better gun handling and armor, so still useable guns. But at least not super broken.

leggasiini #4 Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:43 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 29 March 2019 - 07:30 PM, said:

Though i wouldnt be surprised if people continued using the derps... afterall it will be the same like E100 full HE basically, except with better gun handling and armor, so still useable guns. But at least not super broken.

 

Yeah, the HE E-100 warriors will still stick to the Type 5 with derp. It's bad now but as it's still a superior version of full HE E-100, baddies and memers are still going to roll with it. 

Obsessive_Compulsive #5 Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:46 PM

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they nerfed the fv4005 as well because lets face it that thing was so OP!

 

No words to describe thier balance dept. Well I have several but none I can say here.



Trostani #6 Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:49 PM

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Generally speaking WG want to castrate troll gun for +3mm pen on AP gun. Type 5 will be even worse than just after introduction - penned by everybody using premium shells with 2 usless guns to choose. Right now it have at least some fear factor after changes becomes mobile shooting target. Balance team at its best...

hasnainrakha57 #7 Posted 29 March 2019 - 06:54 PM

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Imagine u are in your heavy or super heavy and type 4 or type 5 slams gold HE round and deals 750+dmg coz of 192mm penetration.
Where it used to do 500+dmg at sides

REMOVE THAT GUN PLZ!

 

Edit:

Whops forget to mention "side armor" when sneaky ninja type 5 or 4 slams at sides with 192mm pen dealing full 750dmg.

Example a poor e100 busy fighting gets slammed by type with 75mm pen it deals 500+ dmg.But after 192mm it deals full 750dmg.Super conqueror from front lower plate can receive 750dmg with192mm pen.Same for amx50b.....

But can argue don't know how much dmg 192mm pen with 750 alpha does to non penetrating shots if it's still like 500mm+ then it's buff for the types not NERF.


Edited by hasnainrakha57, 29 March 2019 - 07:32 PM.


Dr_Oolen #8 Posted 29 March 2019 - 07:11 PM

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View Posthasnainrakha57, on 29 March 2019 - 06:54 PM, said:

Imagine u are in your heavy or super heavy and type 4 or type 5 slams gold HE round and deals 750+dmg coz of 192mm penetration.
Where it used to do 500+dmg at sides

REMOVE THAT GUN PLZ!

 

Alternatively like 20 other tanks could have shot you into sides for 750 with same/similar reloads and on faster tanks with higher penetration on that 750 alpha.

 

I take 150-350 into my sidescraping tank instead of 500-700 every day of the week.


Edited by Dr_Oolen, 29 March 2019 - 07:13 PM.


Dragos_CS #9 Posted 29 March 2019 - 07:27 PM

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All the type 4/5 and shitbarn players crying about their noobwagons getting nerfed will be a treat for sure. Too bad the FV keeps the HESH, at least there will be less of them around.

hasnainrakha57 #10 Posted 29 March 2019 - 07:28 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 29 March 2019 - 06:11 PM, said:

 

Alternatively like 20 other tanks could have shot you into sides for 750 with same/similar reloads and on faster tanks with higher penetration on that 750 alpha.

 

I take 150-350 into my sidescraping tank instead of 500-700 every day of the week.

Whops forget to mention "side armor" when sneaky ninja type 5 or 4 slams at sides with 192mm pen dealing full 750dmg.

Example a poor e100 busy fighting gets slammed by type with 75mm pen it deals 500+ dmg.But after 192mm it deals full 750dmg.Super conqueror from front lower plate can receive 750dmg with192mm pen.Same for amx50b.....

But can argue don't know how much dmg 192mm pen with 750 alpha does to non penetrating shots if it's still like 500mm+ then it's buff for the types not NERF.


Edited by hasnainrakha57, 29 March 2019 - 07:31 PM.


gpalsson #11 Posted 29 March 2019 - 07:46 PM

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Good news about the cancerous FV4005 too.

Even though they won't fix the actual problem, giving it worse mobility and worse gun stats will hopefully make it less popular.



Objec7 #12 Posted 29 March 2019 - 07:54 PM

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View PostObsessive_Compulsive, on 29 March 2019 - 06:46 PM, said:

they nerfed the fv4005 as well because lets face it that thing was so OP!

 

No words to describe thier balance dept. Well I have several but none I can say here.

 

It was almost as broken as Types, not op but broken.

ihateclowns #13 Posted 29 March 2019 - 07:56 PM

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Just make all the tanks the exact same, same pen , same alpha, etc, but they have different skins to make it look like they are different. That way you get to please the whinners and moaners. And keep nerfing the fun out of the game. 

Bucifel #14 Posted 29 March 2019 - 08:01 PM

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VERY good step in right direction...but still far from balance

 

give them PROPER WEAKPOINTS, make all ammo types STANDARD on prices and keep that damage nerf for a drawback. Only after all this we can consider WoT balanced and a quality product.



leggasiini #15 Posted 29 March 2019 - 09:03 PM

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View Posthasnainrakha57, on 29 March 2019 - 08:28 PM, said:

But can argue don't know how much dmg 192mm pen with 750 alpha does to non penetrating shots if it's still like 500mm+ then it's buff for the types not NERF.

Penetration doesn't affect non-penetrating HE damage so the non-penetrating hits will do 300 at most, and that is against targets that the current premium HE would hit for +600 instead. Most of the time the new HESH shells would do a rather pitiful 200ish damage.

 

Not to mention that against Super Conqueror LFP or against 50B turret the derp can still do 600 or even 700 if it rolls super high with current premium HE so its not like the HESH is much worse when it pens. Difference is that the HESH has to pen, whereas the current prem HE will ALWAYS do 600 against those things mentioned unless you hit the gun and do nothing.



Dramakid19 #16 Posted 29 March 2019 - 09:09 PM

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252 pen is joke. If they don't buff it's pen this tanks is gonna be useless, just like it's mini brother STB-I!

ortega456 #17 Posted 29 March 2019 - 09:18 PM

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Finally WG made enough money out of the japanese lines and can nerf those Types to normal again. Enough people ground their way up and now balance department takes over from marketing department.

 

Though it was fun to play the Type 5 with that 1400alpha from time to time especially for missions I'm so happy that the derp gun will get nerfed so hard and I can finally tank against those tanks.



Renesco #18 Posted 29 March 2019 - 09:34 PM

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View Postgpalsson, on 29 March 2019 - 07:46 PM, said:

Good news about the cancerous FV4005 too.

Even though they won't fix the actual problem, giving it worse mobility and worse gun stats will hopefully make it less popular.

 

View PostObsessive_Compulsive, on 29 March 2019 - 06:46 PM, said:

they nerfed the fv4005 as well because lets face it that thing was so OP!

 

No words to describe thier balance dept. Well I have several but none I can say here.

 

boo-urns I recruited a girl-crew especially for it and am at the Charioteer right now, why WG WHY?

Fr33nzyFighter #19 Posted 29 March 2019 - 09:35 PM

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View Postleggasiini, on 29 March 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:

Type 4 (14cm)

 

Type 4 (15cm)

 

Type 5 (14cm)

 

Type 5 (15cm)

 

I don't play the game anymore so I had no plans to return to forums...but Types are being changed and anything related to Japanese tanks insta-summons me :^)

 

Basically what they are doing is that they are nerfing the f*ck out of the derp gun, while giving the AP gun slight buffs and buffing their mobility as well in return.

 

While the derps didn't exactly get completely removed, they got shat on really hard. Standard alpha goes from 1100 to 900, while the premium HE becomes HESH with 750 alpha and around 190mm of penetration. Other than slight movement bloom buff, no other stats were changed. As their reload is unchanged, the Type 4 has about the same reload as KV-2 with worse HE pen, 10 less alpha and no AP shells, in return of better accuracy, velocity and having (useless) HESH instead of AP shells, and Type 5 is still outclassed by O-Ho in terms of reload, gun handling and availability of AP shells (which are IMO superior to the HESH shells of the Types). So basically, Type 4's derp is arguably inferior to KV-2's, while both Types have worse derps than the O-Ho. Basically it seems like they are going with KV-85 122mm approach - instead of removing the gun altogether, they keep it but nerf it into oblivion to the point where it's pretty useless. This change is great, as IMO the derps should've been never introduced in the first place. It's the closest we get to the full removal of the guns.

 

In addition, the 14cm gun gets a pen buff, and Type 5's version of it gets a fairly nice bloom buff. The gun isn't going to be still amazing, but the pen buff combined with bloom buff is going to make it at least good enough. It also helps that Type 5's mobility gets buffed, as it gets better engine, traverse speed and reverse speed, which should make it bit more comfortable to play. Between that and the fact it retains the huge HP pool and thicc armor, it should be a solid middle ground between the E 100 and Maus like it was originally meant to be.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that while the derp premium shell has less alpha than the standard, the alpha of 14cm's premium shell isn't decreased so I actually don't think this is directly related to the premium ammo changes, there's a probability we see this earlier than that.

 

No armor changes though which sucks, but derps getting trashed and AP gun getting buffed is f*cking great. WG actually got 2 out of 3 necessary areas that needed to be fixed on Types (15cm nerf/removal, armor rework and 14cm buff) right, or well, at least they did them somewhat right. Glad to see that after 4 years the AP gun Type 5 is finally viable. 

 

I still think that WG should do two additional changes to the Types:

 

  • make the weakspots (the hatches and cupola) weaker, lower them both by around 20-30mm
  • buff the 14cm gun bit further, increase the DPM and/or buff the penetration a bit more

 

With that change the Types would finally be more or less fixed. But hey, WG's proposed change is still a step in the right direction.

 

People played them because of the derp gun, i agree with the HESH shells but the nerf on the standard round is stupid, a T10 tank gets a T6 gun, gg.
20:37 Added after 1 minute

View PostDr_Oolen, on 29 March 2019 - 06:30 PM, said:

Well, its something. Even if the retardproof weakspotless armor stays, at least the derps are nerfed into being worse than the AP guns... so yay! Though i wouldnt be surprised if people continued using the derps... afterall it will be the same like E100 full HE basically, except with better gun handling and armor, so still useable guns. But at least not super broken.

 

Yeah, from broken to utter crap, nice, i like how you guys want "balance"
20:40 Added after 5 minutes

View PostObsessive_Compulsive, on 29 March 2019 - 06:46 PM, said:

they nerfed the fv4005 as well because lets face it that thing was so OP!

 

No words to describe thier balance dept. Well I have several but none I can say here.

 

Waw, you are so smart, 25 secs reload and pepper armour ware so OP, you losers destroy everything, cant have fun in any tanks, cant have anything different or special, comunist bastards.

NekoPuffer_PPP #20 Posted 29 March 2019 - 09:46 PM

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View PostObsessive_Compulsive, on 29 March 2019 - 06:46 PM, said:

they nerfed the fv4005 as well because lets face it that thing was so OP!

 

No words to describe thier balance dept. Well I have several but none I can say here.

 

Well, it was.

 

The old Deathstar is terrible in comparison, but now the gunhandling should be on-par.

 

IMO the faster (more mobile) platform, the FV4005, should have worse gunhandling than the Deathstar. By the time you get the Deathstar where you want it, you'll want to be able to aim that gun properly, especially with its lack of viable armor, you don't have enough time to aim comfortably around a corner...it feels like aiming through a pineapple.







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