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Circon rants about Arta (and is actually correct)


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DeBanus #1 Posted 30 March 2019 - 11:48 PM

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Quite self explaining video about Wargaming, not understanding their own game and the impact of arty on mid-tiers.

 

 



Balc0ra #2 Posted 31 March 2019 - 12:00 AM

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Thing is that the current SPG nerfs only listed tier 7+ tanks as problems.

 

But tier for tier tbh the M44 on tier 6 to name one, and a few of the Russian 152's on lower tiers are bigger issues. More so since stun is not common on those tiers. Thus some are way stronger than others etc. Even in a +2 game. As you can't say that about the FV304 vs the M44 for instance. That thing is just sad vs tier 8 armor. And no one fears the 38 damage he does every 12 seconds in even their Tiger II. But they do still play carefully when they see an M44 on the other team.



CraftyVeteran #3 Posted 31 March 2019 - 01:10 AM

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all I hear is whahhhhhhh

Zoltan1251 #4 Posted 31 March 2019 - 01:24 AM

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am i the only one that is not really that bothered by arty?.... yeah, its annoying, sometimes, but majority of times im not bothered by them and spotting for friendly arty is satisfying.... changes are fine but its not like the game is unaplayable

kaneloon #5 Posted 31 March 2019 - 01:32 AM

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View PostZoltan1251, on 31 March 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

am i the only one that is not really that bothered by arty?.... yeah, its annoying, sometimes, but majority of times im not bothered by them and spotting for friendly arty is satisfying.... changes are fine but its not like the game is unaplayable

 

Same as you.

 

It is very much a unicum problem.

Why ?

- because they can't 3 mark them (too much random)

- it is enemies they can't see = can't control.

- arty focus the spotted players = agressive players

- arty change the way they play a map

- arty are often badly played



Zoltan1251 #6 Posted 31 March 2019 - 01:38 AM

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View Postkaneloon, on 31 March 2019 - 01:32 AM, said:

 

Same as you.

 

It is very much a unicum problem.

Why ?

- because they can't 3 mark them (too much random)

- it is enemies they can't see = can't control.

- arty focus the spotted players = agressive players

- arty change the way they play a map

- arty are often badly played

 

exactly... ill go even further... RNG is also unicum problem... it makes them lose games... imagine reduced RNG and unicums dominating everyone, people would simply stop playing

kaneloon #7 Posted 31 March 2019 - 01:42 AM

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Yeah ;)

Unicums are not so many, and they usually stay together "well because you have to counter RNG ..." so we don't meet them often.



FrantisekBascovansky #8 Posted 31 March 2019 - 01:43 AM

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he sounds he needs some tranquilisers

or like hysterical little girl... pathetic

 

...so an unicum cries he can't dominate lowtiers at level he wants


Edited by FrantisekBascovansky, 31 March 2019 - 01:46 AM.


lnfernaI #9 Posted 31 March 2019 - 01:52 AM

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Wasn't Circon the one who trash-talked the Chrysler GF back in the day...?

This is just funny. Arty isn't that bad anymore.

Spoiler

 



Desyatnik_Pansy #10 Posted 31 March 2019 - 01:55 AM

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View Postkaneloon, on 31 March 2019 - 12:32 AM, said:

Same as you.

 

It is very much a unicum problem.

Why ?

- because they can't 3 mark them (too much random)

- it is enemies they can't see = can't control.

- arty focus the spotted players = agressive players

- arty change the way they play a map

- arty are often badly played

 

It's not strictly a unicum problem. My friend Chaos is far from being uni and hates arty about as much as me. Mind you, he hates Gold and will whine about people shooting Gold at his friggin' arty, while I have little problem with it. Big surprise, people can think differently.:P


Edited by Desyatnik_Pansy, 31 March 2019 - 01:56 AM.


PervyPastryPuffer #11 Posted 31 March 2019 - 01:59 AM

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"Are you high as a kite" :D He's vulgar, but he's right.

lnfernaI #12 Posted 31 March 2019 - 02:00 AM

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View PostPervyPastryPuffer, on 31 March 2019 - 02:59 AM, said:

but he's right.

Up until the point someone else will start forging a different point of view.

Spoiler

 



Balc0ra #13 Posted 31 March 2019 - 02:11 AM

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View PostZoltan1251, on 31 March 2019 - 01:24 AM, said:

am i the only one that is not really that bothered by arty?.... yeah, its annoying, sometimes, but majority of times im not bothered by them and spotting for friendly arty is satisfying.... changes are fine but its not like the game is unaplayable

 

I see your point. As I can count on one hand how many games I feel is ruined on my end due to arty. Know what you fear and all that. As if you know he is aiming there, no point going out trading shots with an enemy tank, vs letting him come to trade with me when my arty can help etc. 

 

But... even so. It won't change the fact that like most classes there are still balance issues and broken stuff vs other SPG's on the same tier etc. And the gap on some is rather big. As you can say about some tier 8 HT's etc. And that gap when top tier is... kinda broken on lower tier SPG's. And just because most don't are bothered by it. Don't mean they are not balanced correctly if you see my point.



fwhaatpiraat #14 Posted 31 March 2019 - 03:26 AM

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It seems like such a well supported statement, but it is not. Hit me.

 

First of all, he casually forgets that all tier 6 vehicles can kill a tier 5 td much faster than a tier 10 vehicle (medium, heavy, light, 'regular gun td' )  can kill a tier 9 TD. A T-34-85M has a reload of ~4.3s. So in an encouter with a tier 5 td, the td can be erased in 4.3 seconds. Other tanks like E8, Cromwell, T37, etc. take a bit longer since they need to reload twice. But still tanks with autoloaders like Skoda t25 and Strv-something (premium med) can deal 300-something damage also in less than 5 seconds. Simply said 'dpm/vehicle hp' ratio is higher at lower tiers than at higher hiers. Engagements in tiers below 5 are really fast, one autocannon clip or one derp hit can be enough for a one-shot kill.

 

Secondly, it simply doesn't happen that an M44 (or other t6 arty) kills a full hp tier 5 vehicle every 16 seconds. Most arty players have a hit rate of ~30%, which also includes track/gun hits. Don't get me wrong, tier 5 vehicles (or other lower tiered vehicles) do get oneshotted by 1 tier higher spgs, relatively regularly even compared to high tiers, since they lack the armor, but in 'reality' it's not even close as what he describes.

 

Thirdly, M44 is cherry picked since that is easily the strongest t6 arty. Nobody cares nowadays about the fv304 (how different that was in the past), also the Hummel, SU-8 and French arty aren't really feared I reckon. WoT hall of fame supports this, M44 scores the highest. If Circon would argue that the M44 is overpowered (since good reload/dpm, good mobility and fast aiming), that might make sense, but M44 is not like the other t6 arties. Tier 5 arties are also far worse btw. The argument that the M41 has the same gun as the M44 is true, but the M41 can't hit sh!t, is slow as hell, reloads really slow, etc. Basically shouldn't even be compared with its successor, so bad that thing is. It will rarely one-shot something though, but that is pure rng.

 

So in short: exaggerated and seems mostly just regular arty hate. Don't get me wrong, arty is still unfair and a broken mechanic but that doesn't mean that tier 5 and 6 arties 'are beyond broken, OP, ret4rded, whatever'. He would have a point if he would argue that the M44 is OP or that the penetration values of lower tier arties should be lowered. Also, you can call me whatever you fancy for 'defending' arta, but in the end I know how it feels to get excessively targeted by arty and how annoying that is. At the same time, by playing those arty pieces as well, I know what those vehicles are capable of and what not.

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by fwhaatpiraat, 31 March 2019 - 03:27 AM.


jack_timber #15 Posted 31 March 2019 - 09:13 AM

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Hit rate of my M44 is 30%, Bert is 34% but low DPM unless it hits open topped tank.

So where's the problem?

So the rant is over a lucky shot, poor guy.

 



Suurpolskija #16 Posted 31 March 2019 - 09:35 AM

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I agree with Circon on this case of low tier arty.

Asklepi0s #17 Posted 31 March 2019 - 10:01 AM

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Due to the high number of Artillery threads, we want discussions to take place in the main pinned thread here.




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