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Open letter to WG

Improved fun of play

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Elleriel #1 Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:28 PM

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Dear WG,

First of all, I want to thank you for all things you tried to give us better in game fun.

But I think you need to know some points :

- You want old players to come back on your game but you don't do anything to give them the motivation to come back, it is not your program or giving them gold, premium tanks that will them play again.

- Most players who left have flet because of the matchmaking, not the +2/-2 system (but I would love a +1/-1 that's sure) but I played when it was +/- 3 so +/- 2 is ok, with gold ammo, you can most time do something usefull. The big problem is unbalanced mm between good/veteran players and new ones or people who don't have any idea what to do with their tanks. (for example : 50 K played game players with less than 500 win 8...).

 

I think you should create leagues based on efficiency or something like that (I don't think win 8 is a good base because don't take in count spot, flag capture....). This will make the battles more interesting for everyone, bad players will not be "farmed" by good ones, and games of better ones won't be ruined by errors made by newcomers or unskilled ones. 

 

With such improvements, fun will be back for everyone and I think lot old players will come back and actual players will stop flee this nice game just because of unbalanced matchmaking.

(this idea is based on discussion with lot of acual veterans and people who left and won't come back if no modifications are made on this side of the problem).

 

Thank you for no troll on this topic and sorry if my english is not a professional one. 



Homer_J #2 Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:44 PM

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View PostElleriel, on 03 April 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

this idea is based on discussion with lot of acual veterans and people who left 

It wasn't based on any discussion with me.

 

Here's my letter.

 

Dear Wargaming.

          Just look at how skill based matchmaking killed off that other game.  Don't introduce it or there will be no players left.  Thanks.

 

P.S. keep up the good work.



Jauhesammutin #3 Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:53 PM

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View PostElleriel, on 03 April 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

Dear WG,

First of all, I want to thank you for all things you tried to give us better in game fun.

But I think you need to know some points :

- You want old players to come back on your game but you don't do anything to give them the motivation to come back, it is not your program or giving them gold, premium tanks that will them play again.

- Most players who left have flet because of the matchmaking, not the +2/-2 system (but I would love a +1/-1 that's sure) but I played when it was +/- 3 so +/- 2 is ok, with gold ammo, you can most time do something usefull. The big problem is unbalanced mm between good/veteran players and new ones or people who don't have any idea what to do with their tanks. (for example : 50 K played game players with less than 500 win 8...).

 

I think you should create leagues based on efficiency or something like that (I don't think win 8 is a good base because don't take in count spot, flag capture....). This will make the battles more interesting for everyone, bad players will not be "farmed" by good ones, and games of better ones won't be ruined by errors made by newcomers or unskilled ones. 

 

With such improvements, fun will be back for everyone and I think lot old players will come back and actual players will stop flee this nice game just because of unbalanced matchmaking.

(this idea is based on discussion with lot of acual veterans and people who left and won't come back if no modifications are made on this side of the problem).

 

Thank you for no troll on this topic and sorry if my english is not a professional one. 

 

So basically you want a skill based MM. Do you realize that "random battle" is exactly what the name says. "RANDOM". It's not supposed to be fair and equally balanced. For competitive play you can go and play CW, Skirmishes, TB or Tournaments. 

Noo_Noo #4 Posted 03 April 2019 - 12:56 PM

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Here we go again. 

 

Tell me Elleriel. What would Skill based MM do for your WR?



8126Jakobsson #5 Posted 03 April 2019 - 01:01 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 03 April 2019 - 12:44 PM, said:

It wasn't based on any discussion with me.

 

Here's my letter.

 

Dear Wargaming.

          Just look at how skill based matchmaking killed off that other game.  Don't introduce it or there will be no players left.  Thanks.

 

P.S. keep up the good work.

 

Never tried that other one but I have seen some claim that it was the PvE that nailed it. 

BSHDBCG #6 Posted 03 April 2019 - 01:03 PM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 03 April 2019 - 01:01 PM, said:

 

Never tried that other one but I have seen some claim that it was the PvE that nailed it. 

 

Most stopped playing against other players once the PvE got introduced, as it was simply easier to play that than face real competition. So yeah it was a downwards spiral from both skill based MM and PvE.

Jigabachi #7 Posted 03 April 2019 - 01:10 PM

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A league based SMM is the most boring one you could choose in a game like this one.
Sooo... no, thanks.

And with how many people did you talk? Two?

Rati_Festa #8 Posted 03 April 2019 - 01:11 PM

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While I don't think the SBMM in randoms is a good idea at all.

 

It would be an interesting experiement to set up a league system in parrallel, use PR to setup the leagues and let battle commence. I would definately try it.


Edited by Rati_Festa, 03 April 2019 - 01:12 PM.


pecopad #9 Posted 03 April 2019 - 01:24 PM

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View PostBSHDBCG, on 03 April 2019 - 01:03 PM, said:

 

Most stopped playing against other players once the PvE got introduced, as it was simply easier to play that than face real competition. So yeah it was a downwards spiral from both skill based MM and PvE.

 

With the team play levels we are seeing , I find it hard to believe that PVE can be worst.... it would be hard to make such dumb bots...

Edited by pecopad, 03 April 2019 - 01:24 PM.


Homer_J #10 Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:10 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 03 April 2019 - 12:11 PM, said:

 

It would be an interesting experiement to set up a league system in parrallel, 

 

How about every so often they have an event where you play a special mode where you progress through leagues and eventually fight people of your own "skill"?

 

They could give it an appropriate name, something like Ranked Battles.



FrantisekBascovansky #11 Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:16 PM

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Now my open letter to WG:

 

"Thank you WG for the game we can enjoy as it is."


Edited by FrantisekBascovansky, 03 April 2019 - 03:16 PM.


Dorander #12 Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:32 PM

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Incidentally what the matchmaker COULD do to take skill into account without creating the typical problems associated with skill-based MM is divide the winrates of the selected 30 players for a match over the two teams so that they're roughly equal, similar to hitpoints, perhaps taking some tier weighing into account. Even if it did this pretty roughly it could prevent some of the worst skewed games you get with complete randomness, while still generating random battles in the spirit of current randomness.

unhappy_bunny #13 Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:32 PM

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View PostElleriel, on 03 April 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

Dear WG,

First of all, I want to thank you for all things you tried to give us better in game fun.

But I think you need to know some points :

- You want old players to come back on your game but you don't do anything to give them the motivation to come back, it is not your program or giving them gold, premium tanks that will them play again.

- Most players who left have flet because of the matchmaking, not the +2/-2 system (but I would love a +1/-1 that's sure) but I played when it was +/- 3 so +/- 2 is ok, with gold ammo, you can most time do something usefull. The big problem is unbalanced mm between good/veteran players and new ones or people who don't have any idea what to do with their tanks. (for example : 50 K played game players with less than 500 win 8...).

 

I think you should create leagues based on efficiency or something like that (I don't think win 8 is a good base because don't take in count spot, flag capture....). This will make the battles more interesting for everyone, bad players will not be "farmed" by good ones, and games of better ones won't be ruined by errors made by newcomers or unskilled ones. 

 

With such improvements, fun will be back for everyone and I think lot old players will come back and actual players will stop flee this nice game just because of unbalanced matchmaking.

(this idea is based on discussion with lot of acual veterans and people who left and won't come back if no modifications are made on this side of the problem).

 

Thank you for no troll on this topic and sorry if my english is not a professional one. 

 

Dear OP

While I disagree with your idea, you are fully entitled to hold that opinion.

However, you clearly haven't been around the forum often enough, nor have you bothered to use the search function, to realise that this has been discussed many, many times in the past.

Another thing you would understand, had you been around the forum more often, is that WG do not read the general forum. If you want to appeal to WG with any ideas, you need to take it direct to them, either in a support ticket, or by posting in the official suggestions section of the forum.

Have you posted this in the French speaking forum? No, of course not, despite your being in a French speaking clan. Why is that? Why do you assume the English Speaking section is the right place to post it and not the forum dedicated to the language of your clan?

 

 



Rati_Festa #14 Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:02 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 03 April 2019 - 03:10 PM, said:

 

How about every so often they have an event where you play a special mode where you progress through leagues and eventually fight people of your own "skill"?

 

They could give it an appropriate name, something like Ranked Battles.

 

At t10 = bad

 

You dont progress through leagues either not in the truest sense. Its just one big league that you can potentially move up more by grinding.

 

And you dont play players of your own skill... you start at the bottom and meet noobs and unicums in the same matches. Have u actually played it? :)



Cobra6 #15 Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:07 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 03 April 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

 

How about every so often they have an event where you play a special mode where you progress through leagues and eventually fight people of your own "skill"?

 

They could give it an appropriate name, something like Ranked Battles.

 

What? You mean the mode that only rewards damage farming where "49%" players can get the highest ranks if they just do the damage?

That mode has very little to do with skill judging by the amount of gold badges I see on average players nowadays.

 

Cobra 6



eekeeboo #16 Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:37 PM

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View Postunhappy_bunny, on 03 April 2019 - 02:32 PM, said:

 

Dear OP

While I disagree with your idea, you are fully entitled to hold that opinion.

However, you clearly haven't been around the forum often enough, nor have you bothered to use the search function, to realise that this has been discussed many, many times in the past.

Another thing you would understand, had you been around the forum more often, is that WG do not read the general forum. If you want to appeal to WG with any ideas, you need to take it direct to them, either in a support ticket, or by posting in the official suggestions section of the forum.

Have you posted this in the French speaking forum? No, of course not, despite your being in a French speaking clan. Why is that? Why do you assume the English Speaking section is the right place to post it and not the forum dedicated to the language of your clan?

 

 

 

WG very much read the general forum ;) 

 

 

15:38 Added after 1 minute

View PostElleriel, on 03 April 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

Dear WG,

First of all, I want to thank you for all things you tried to give us better in game fun.

But I think you need to know some points :

- You want old players to come back on your game but you don't do anything to give them the motivation to come back, it is not your program or giving them gold, premium tanks that will them play again.

- Most players who left have flet because of the matchmaking, not the +2/-2 system (but I would love a +1/-1 that's sure) but I played when it was +/- 3 so +/- 2 is ok, with gold ammo, you can most time do something usefull. The big problem is unbalanced mm between good/veteran players and new ones or people who don't have any idea what to do with their tanks. (for example : 50 K played game players with less than 500 win 8...).

 

I think you should create leagues based on efficiency or something like that (I don't think win 8 is a good base because don't take in count spot, flag capture....). This will make the battles more interesting for everyone, bad players will not be "farmed" by good ones, and games of better ones won't be ruined by errors made by newcomers or unskilled ones. 

 

With such improvements, fun will be back for everyone and I think lot old players will come back and actual players will stop flee this nice game just because of unbalanced matchmaking.

(this idea is based on discussion with lot of acual veterans and people who left and won't come back if no modifications are made on this side of the problem).

 

Thank you for no troll on this topic and sorry if my english is not a professional one. 

 

We are happy you enjoy the changes thus far, and while we appreciate your feedback and suggestion, I can assure you that skill based MM is not the answer you believe it to be and that there is currently no intention for it to be introduced. 

Homer_J #17 Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:44 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 03 April 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

 

You dont progress through leagues either not in the truest sense. Its just one big league that you can potentially move up more by grinding.

 

And you dont play players of your own skill... you start at the bottom and meet noobs and unicums in the same matches. Have u actually played it? :)

You can't move up without winning or at least doing well though can you, it's not like marathons where just banging the battle button gets you there eventually.

 

I played it a bit, got the minimum bonds prize once or twice, but why would I put any effort into a mode I don't want anyway?

 

 

View PostCobra6, on 03 April 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

 

What? You mean the mode that only rewards damage farming where "49%" players can get the highest ranks if they just do the damage?

That mode has very little to do with skill judging by the amount of gold badges I see on average players nowadays.

 

Cobra 6

 

You have to win more than you lose to move up.  I thought.  Not something i was interested in TBH.

 

But if WG messed up the only tryhard mode they ever introduced then what makes you think they will do a "good" job of leagues or skill based mm.


Edited by Homer_J, 03 April 2019 - 04:45 PM.


DA_ZOHAN #18 Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:50 PM

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There is a skill based MM in WoT right now!!

It is called elo rating, and it takes place in Advances and Skirmishes.



the_Haba #19 Posted 03 April 2019 - 05:00 PM

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Skill based matchmaking =/= fair matchmaking.

 

Did you never play any team sports in school or what? Split the good and bad as equally as you can. Nothing more complicated than that. No ranks, no leagues, none of that crap is needed to have relatively fair games.

 

WG MM probably already does it to a degree. When the MM is having a good day, just count the number of greens, yellows, oranges and reds. More often than not you'll see an odd pattern appearing. Your cherished "random games" are not actually random.

 

But just as often the MM gives up and throws whatever you have at you. And then you have those lovely unpredictable and challenging 3½ minute games.



Balc0ra #20 Posted 03 April 2019 - 05:11 PM

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View PostElleriel, on 03 April 2019 - 12:28 PM, said:

- You want old players to come back on your game but you don't do anything to give them the motivation to come back, it is not your program or giving them gold, premium tanks that will them play again.

- Most players who left have flet because of the matchmaking, not the +2/-2 system (but I would love a +1/-1 that's sure) but I played when it was +/- 3 so +/- 2 is ok, with gold ammo, you can most time do something usefull. The big problem is unbalanced mm between good/veteran players and new ones or people who don't have any idea what to do with their tanks. (for example : 50 K played game players with less than 500 win 8...).

 

Thing is that at this point. As clearly shown in the classic client chat. What old players loved, is not what new players like. So what keeps old and new around differs a bit. So that can go both ways. And tbh. One of the reasons why I am still around, and why my Luchs and Crom B is so high up in battles played. Is not because they are fun in +1. It's because they worked and are fun in +2. I'm the odd one out that actually miss the old +4 scout MM on my Luchs. It's why the ELC and Caffee was fun on Classic... facing tier X. But that's just me, as trolling higher tiers never gets old. It's not because it's easy. It's not. Thus why it's fun too.

 

As for MM and good and bad/new? Well. You can lose players by separating them to on higher tiers, as you will by not doing it I'm willing to bet. As we did see with that "other game" and their skilled based MM that faced bad vs bad to split them from the "good" and "superb" players. And most bad are new players. But since most new players get a free tier 6 when doing the tutorial. You will see more of them. And they did give those a "special" MM before on lower tiers, but that just benefited alt accounts more so then new players. That and WN8 is not a WG tool. So I doubt they will go by that alone anytime soon.






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