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Tds and sniping since 1.0


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Amun_RA #1 Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:09 AM

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Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that since 1.0 there are not many places tds can snipe from without getting immediately spotted. I don't say there aren't many bushes on the maps, but there aren't many from which a td can snipe comfortably except if you camp red line. 

 

I understand that a td should also be forced to relocate and be countered in some way but I think the current state of the game is too much.

 

Some examples:

 

Lakeville. You cannot hide in a bush anymore on the south parth of the valley and you get immediately spotted even if you snipe from the red line. The North part of the valley is a little better, but not much either. 

 

Arctic region. South-east part of the map. You get immediately spotted and arty will rain on you for sure. Maybe this is just for the balance of the map but it doesn't seem very balanced to me. 

 

Ensk. A total mess. 

 

There are some bushes on many maps which can provide cover but are very risky if enemy scouts, especially WV, decide to scout the area and if allied scouts don't help you are pretty much doomed. For example Karelia. 

 

Please tell me what you think. If you hate tds, try to be constructive, because it is not like they are going to be removed from the game  ever. 

 


Edited by Amun_RA, 06 April 2019 - 10:10 AM.


nakkipeppu #2 Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:22 AM

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I could give you that it's more challenging, but not that it's impossible.

 

You need to adapt, and relearn the maps.



HundeWurst #3 Posted 06 April 2019 - 10:34 AM

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View Postnakkipeppu, on 06 April 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

I could give you that it's more challenging, but not that it's impossible.

 

You need to adapt, and relearn the maps.

 

No. The mapdesign is just terrible more often than not.

Laatikkomafia #4 Posted 06 April 2019 - 11:04 AM

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Lakeville: Don't go to the valley. The side tends to be useless, and only a few tanks should go there - if any. The cap circles are easy to defend.

 

Mannerheim line: If you mean the HT corner, I agree. It needs some kind of a rework. As soon as you cross the corner, you are being bombarded by clickers.

 

Enks has never been that great of a sniping map. The map is just too small, and people usually don't play the 1-line. You might find some success in the right flank of the map, if the enemy decides to go there.



nakkipeppu #5 Posted 06 April 2019 - 11:39 AM

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View PostHundeWurst, on 06 April 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

 

No. The mapdesign is just terrible more often than not.

 

Terrible is opinion, equally legit opinion is that maps used to be even more terrible. New maps come and go, they're kind of mixed bag.

 

For maps that have been always in the game and changed during the years, there's a lot less powerful overwatch positions that let you pound on the enemies at 500m range everywhere, so sniping is harder. There's a lot more cover now to move about without ppl getting shot at from absolutely everywhere. I personally didn't like the old "let's wait 5 minutes for stupids to get killed and then the round starts" gameplay, even though it allowed farming the said stupids. But that's just matter of personal opinion.

 

I'm not sure what you even wanted to contest here with the "No" ? Just state that you don't like the maps ? You're allowed to have that opinion, but it doesn't make my post factually wrong. Sniping / TD gameplay is harder. It's not impossible. If the person wants to do better after changes in the map, it's better to relearn them than hope that stuff they did previously just happens to work after changes as well.

 



WindSplitter1 #6 Posted 06 April 2019 - 03:42 PM

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View PostAmun_RA, on 06 April 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

*snip*

 

 

TD-hater here.

 

Generally speaking yes, you are correct. Few are the places where you can reliably hide your vehicle but those are normally in city maps.

 

Although map design outside GB and FL is very poor and the result of catering specifically for one class alone, "green maps" (Mali, Prokh, Serene Coast, Oaks) provide good concealment for the TD that must rely on camo.

 

As an aside, Ensk... I don't know what to tell you but calling it a "total mess" is an understatement.



Strizi #7 Posted 06 April 2019 - 04:46 PM

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There are still enough camping spots for tomatoes who want to camp in their td whole game instead of playing actively.

Jauhesammutin #8 Posted 06 April 2019 - 05:06 PM

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View PostAmun_RA, on 06 April 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that since 1.0 there are not many places tds can snipe from without getting immediately spotted. I don't say there aren't many bushes on the maps, but there aren't many from which a td can snipe comfortably except if you camp red line. 

 

I understand that a td should also be forced to relocate and be countered in some way but I think the current state of the game is too much.

 

Some examples:

 

Lakeville. You cannot hide in a bush anymore on the south parth of the valley and you get immediately spotted even if you snipe from the red line. The North part of the valley is a little better, but not much either. 

 

Arctic region. South-east part of the map. You get immediately spotted and arty will rain on you for sure. Maybe this is just for the balance of the map but it doesn't seem very balanced to me. 

 

Ensk. A total mess. 

 

There are some bushes on many maps which can provide cover but are very risky if enemy scouts, especially WV, decide to scout the area and if allied scouts don't help you are pretty much doomed. For example Karelia. 

 

Please tell me what you think. If you hate tds, try to be constructive, because it is not like they are going to be removed from the game  ever. 

 

 

What tier and TD's are you playing? All T10 tanks should have +445 view range so sniping is harder. Also big TD's have the camo of a heavy tank while the Swedish TD's get a light tank camo.

 

Play low tier like T67, Hellcat or E-25 and you won't be spotted (granted you know how to play).



the_Haba #9 Posted 06 April 2019 - 05:21 PM

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Playing any TD that relies on not getting spotted is wasted effort. Even if you have "high" pen, you'll be bouncing enemy heavies or aiming for weak spots at brawling range.

wEight_Tanker #10 Posted 06 April 2019 - 05:21 PM

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Ensk is too small. I play any TD like a MT.

7thSyndicate #11 Posted 06 April 2019 - 07:23 PM

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its true... fake bushes, bad map designs

Bordhaw #12 Posted 06 April 2019 - 09:24 PM

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View PostAmun_RA, on 06 April 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

 

Please tell me what you think. If you hate tds, try to be constructive, because it is not like they are going to be removed from the game  ever. 

 

 



LordMuffin #13 Posted 06 April 2019 - 09:44 PM

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View PostAmun_RA, on 06 April 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that since 1.0 there are not many places tds can snipe from without getting immediately spotted. I don't say there aren't many bushes on the maps, but there aren't many from which a td can snipe comfortably except if you camp red line. 

 

I understand that a td should also be forced to relocate and be countered in some way but I think the current state of the game is too much.

 

Some examples:

 

Lakeville. You cannot hide in a bush anymore on the south parth of the valley and you get immediately spotted even if you snipe from the red line. The North part of the valley is a little better, but not much either. 

 

Arctic region. South-east part of the map. You get immediately spotted and arty will rain on you for sure. Maybe this is just for the balance of the map but it doesn't seem very balanced to me. 

 

Ensk. A total mess. 

 

There are some bushes on many maps which can provide cover but are very risky if enemy scouts, especially WV, decide to scout the area and if allied scouts don't help you are pretty much doomed. For example Karelia. 

 

Please tell me what you think. If you hate tds, try to be constructive, because it is not like they are going to be removed from the game  ever. 

 

Lakeville

My TDs can generally hide from the red line and spectate the valley and shoot it without getting spotted. There where bushes there to use last time I did so.

And you also have the entire mid-road to use to set up supporting fire into city.

 

So there are sniping possibilities on that map if you know your way around playing armour less sniping TDs.

 

Arctic region.

 

From South spawn, you can decide to totally shut down heavy flank or the top side of the map from either J4/G1.

And then work from there.

You also got the G8 area to use from South spawn. 

From North,  you got.

The balcony early on.

Then you have the B4/B5 area aswell to use. And if your base is in danger from either side, you got the insanely strong positions at A8/A9/AM or D0/E0 to pick from. 

 

So once again, WG have given you strong sniping positions to use on Arctic region aswell.

20:50 Added after 5 minutes

View Postnakkipeppu, on 06 April 2019 - 11:39 AM, said:

 

Terrible is opinion, equally legit opinion is that maps used to be even more terrible. New maps come and go, they're kind of mixed bag.

 

For maps that have been always in the game and changed during the years, there's a lot less powerful overwatch positions that let you pound on the enemies at 500m range everywhere, so sniping is harder. There's a lot more cover now to move about without ppl getting shot at from absolutely everywhere. I personally didn't like the old "let's wait 5 minutes for stupids to get killed and then the round starts" gameplay, even though it allowed farming the said stupids. But that's just matter of personal opinion.

 

I'm not sure what you even wanted to contest here with the "No" ? Just state that you don't like the maps ? You're allowed to have that opinion, but it doesn't make my post factually wrong. Sniping / TD gameplay is harder. It's not impossible. If the person wants to do better after changes in the map, it's better to relearn them than hope that stuff they did previously just happens to work after changes as well.

 

Sniping TD play have never been easier imo.

So many maps have gotten absurdly strong sniping/TD positions added to them.

Just look at Ghost town, Cliff, Pilsen, Fishermans Bay, Fjords, Studzianski etc.

 

The only bad maps for sniping TDS currently are Himmelsdorf, Ruinberg, Ensk, Abbey and Minsk imo.

Even on Mountain Pass there are some insanely strong TD positions.



HanZi #14 Posted 07 April 2019 - 09:11 AM

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View PostAmun_RA, on 06 April 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that since 1.0 there are not many places tds can snipe from without getting immediately spotted. I don't say there aren't many bushes on the maps, but there aren't many from which a td can snipe comfortably except if you camp red line. 

 

I understand that a td should also be forced to relocate and be countered in some way but I think the current state of the game is too much.

 

Some examples:

 

Lakeville. You cannot hide in a bush anymore on the south parth of the valley and you get immediately spotted even if you snipe from the red line. The North part of the valley is a little better, but not much either. 

 

Arctic region. South-east part of the map. You get immediately spotted and arty will rain on you for sure. Maybe this is just for the balance of the map but it doesn't seem very balanced to me. 

 

Ensk. A total mess. 

 

There are some bushes on many maps which can provide cover but are very risky if enemy scouts, especially WV, decide to scout the area and if allied scouts don't help you are pretty much doomed. For example Karelia. 

 

Please tell me what you think. If you hate tds, try to be constructive, because it is not like they are going to be removed from the game  ever. 

 

 

Problem is the spotting. Idiotic how a moving light tank can spot going 60 kmt over rough terrain. Far from realety. STUPID WG.

nakkipeppu #15 Posted 07 April 2019 - 10:26 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 06 April 2019 - 10:44 PM, said:

20:50 Added after 5 minutes

Sniping TD play have never been easier imo.

So many maps have gotten absurdly strong sniping/TD positions added to them.

Just look at Ghost town, Cliff, Pilsen, Fishermans Bay, Fjords, Studzianski etc.

 

The only bad maps for sniping TDS currently are Himmelsdorf, Ruinberg, Ensk, Abbey and Minsk imo.

Even on Mountain Pass there are some insanely strong TD positions.

 

They do exist, but they're rather passive positions, kind of sniper perches overlooking the base. I don't disagree, those positions are very accessible, found in almost every map and easy to use. I do enjoy TD:s still, and play and enjoy them.

 

If you go several years back, Sand River, El Halluf, Redshire, Fisherman's Bay, Serene Coast, Murovanka etc. had really long stretches of open areas which you could cover ; from single position 500m away from enemy you would be able to shoot at just about anybody who got spotted. Mountain Pass had the middle changed so that you wouldn't get a shooting gallery right from the get go out of the tanks that try to go to west part of the map, in Prokhorovka they added depression to the entire 1-2 line so you'd get natural cover from railroad track area. If I'm not wrong, in Lakeville, it was a lot easier to just rip into tanks going to city from relative safety if somebody just spotted them at the start. This one though, it's possible that change from square draw range to circle had a bigger impact. In Karelia, the southeastern hill vs. northwest flank was pretty much unobstructed firing lines all over (and during rectangle draw range times, you could shoot pretty much *everything* from the hill). Then there were maps no longer in the game, Swamp, Komarin, Severogorsk (boy, this one was a mess), even Sacred Valley (the first iterations) had really long unobstructed firing lines from flanks. Erlenberg had this absolutely stupid 800 m killzone between flanks, that made the map absolutely nightmare to play once both teams took their respective side of the river.
 

I guess I'm trying to say here that WG has deliberately tweaked the maps (during a long time) in a way that the gameplay doesn't revolve around sniping anymore - good positions still exist, and some of them may be stronger than before, but you can't just drive to some pretty central spot anymore, and cover 90% of map from complete safety anymore.

 



NoobySkooby #16 Posted 07 April 2019 - 10:47 AM

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View PostLaatikkomafia, on 06 April 2019 - 11:04 AM, said:

Lakeville: Don't go to the valley. The side tends to be useless, and only a few tanks should go there - if any. The cap circles are easy to defend.

 

Mannerheim line: If you mean the HT corner, I agree. It needs some kind of a rework. As soon as you cross the corner, you are being bombarded by clickers.

 

Enks has never been that great of a sniping map. The map is just too small, and people usually don't play the 1-line. You might find some success in the right flank of the map, if the enemy decides to go there.

 

Thas funny, on QB's review of the new premium turd, thats exactly what he did, he seemed to do well, but then he always does.

Amun_RA #17 Posted 07 April 2019 - 05:09 PM

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View Postnakkipeppu, on 07 April 2019 - 09:26 AM, said:

 

They do exist, but they're rather passive positions, kind of sniper perches overlooking the base. I don't disagree, those positions are very accessible, found in almost every map and easy to use. I do enjoy TD:s still, and play and enjoy them.

 

If you go several years back, Sand River, El Halluf, Redshire, Fisherman's Bay, Serene Coast, Murovanka etc. had really long stretches of open areas which you could cover ; from single position 500m away from enemy you would be able to shoot at just about anybody who got spotted. Mountain Pass had the middle changed so that you wouldn't get a shooting gallery right from the get go out of the tanks that try to go to west part of the map, in Prokhorovka they added depression to the entire 1-2 line so you'd get natural cover from railroad track area. If I'm not wrong, in Lakeville, it was a lot easier to just rip into tanks going to city from relative safety if somebody just spotted them at the start. This one though, it's possible that change from square draw range to circle had a bigger impact. In Karelia, the southeastern hill vs. northwest flank was pretty much unobstructed firing lines all over (and during rectangle draw range times, you could shoot pretty much *everything* from the hill). Then there were maps no longer in the game, Swamp, Komarin, Severogorsk (boy, this one was a mess), even Sacred Valley (the first iterations) had really long unobstructed firing lines from flanks. Erlenberg had this absolutely stupid 800 m killzone between flanks, that made the map absolutely nightmare to play once both teams took their respective side of the river.
 

I guess I'm trying to say here that WG has deliberately tweaked the maps (during a long time) in a way that the gameplay doesn't revolve around sniping anymore - good positions still exist, and some of them may be stronger than before, but you can't just drive to some pretty central spot anymore, and cover 90% of map from complete safety anymore.

 

 

You have given a much better description of the issue than I have done.  Very good examples.

 

I don't play only tds but I do really enjoy the playstyle when I have a good game and I really miss all the good places where I could snipe from. 



Toni112007 #18 Posted 08 April 2019 - 06:30 AM

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View Postthe_Haba, on 06 April 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

Playing any TD that relies on not getting spotted is wasted effort. Even if you have "high" pen, you'll be bouncing enemy heavies or aiming for weak spots at brawling range.

 

Nashorn disagrees with that.

Anymn #19 Posted 08 April 2019 - 10:18 AM

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View Postnakkipeppu, on 07 April 2019 - 10:26 AM, said:

 

They do exist, but they're rather passive positions, kind of sniper perches overlooking the base. I don't disagree, those positions are very accessible, found in almost every map and easy to use. I do enjoy TD:s still, and play and enjoy them.

 

If you go several years back, Sand River, El Halluf, Redshire, Fisherman's Bay, Serene Coast, Murovanka etc. had really long stretches of open areas which you could cover ; from single position 500m away from enemy you would be able to shoot at just about anybody who got spotted. Mountain Pass had the middle changed so that you wouldn't get a shooting gallery right from the get go out of the tanks that try to go to west part of the map, in Prokhorovka they added depression to the entire 1-2 line so you'd get natural cover from railroad track area. If I'm not wrong, in Lakeville, it was a lot easier to just rip into tanks going to city from relative safety if somebody just spotted them at the start. This one though, it's possible that change from square draw range to circle had a bigger impact. In Karelia, the southeastern hill vs. northwest flank was pretty much unobstructed firing lines all over (and during rectangle draw range times, you could shoot pretty much *everything* from the hill). Then there were maps no longer in the game, Swamp, Komarin, Severogorsk (boy, this one was a mess), even Sacred Valley (the first iterations) had really long unobstructed firing lines from flanks. Erlenberg had this absolutely stupid 800 m killzone between flanks, that made the map absolutely nightmare to play once both teams took their respective side of the river.
 

I guess I'm trying to say here that WG has deliberately tweaked the maps (during a long time) in a way that the gameplay doesn't revolve around sniping anymore - good positions still exist, and some of them may be stronger than before, but you can't just drive to some pretty central spot anymore, and cover 90% of map from complete safety anymore.

 

 

That's a perfect summary. And I think it's a bad thing. It forces everyone to move forward, up to that conveniently created brawling spot exactly in the middle of the flanks. Then the game is decided by the number of tanks allocated to each flank. 

 

Non-turreted TD's suffer from this map design. Light tanks that rely on spotting, suffer as well. Also, read my signature, it's quite on topic for this one.



Gremlin182 #20 Posted 08 April 2019 - 10:45 AM

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It used to be way to easy sniping with some TDs and its still not awful.

Part of the problem is the reduction in number of hiding places and partly due to game guide's and videos.

 

If there are 30 bushes to hide in its overkill you will never be spotted and can decimate enemy tanks.

If there are 3 bushes it doesn't take long for them to blind-fire into those and get you and if there is just one there isn't much point in using it.

Game guides tell players where the best spotting places are, wouldn't be so bad if they just told me but now everyone knows.

 

There are also those darned light tanks

I was on Malinovka the other day and knew just where to take my Borsig a TD with great natural camo I had camo paint and net as well as a 5 skill crew.

I was dead inside of 2 minutes.

Then I remembered How when I play my Light tanks on that map I  can light up anything on the other side of the field and never get spotted myself.

 

Sometimes you have to just stay just inside max view range and hope others spot for you and that range will keep you safe.

 

 

 






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