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Israelian tech tree

tanks world of tanks tech tree israel merkava

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Steeleye_Spam #121 Posted 17 April 2019 - 11:17 PM

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I agree with the general sentiment here, there is masses of content in WoT already, and many of the existing tanks are merely slight variants and therefore do not add to the gameplay. If you want an Israeli tank buy a Ravioli and stick an israeli flag on it. If there are truly unique Israeli tanks within the time perod of the game, then let's have a preimium, but we really don't need any other nations, or really lines for that matter over the existing (barring the Swedish mediums that do actually look like something different gameplay-wise).

LincolnTank #122 Posted 18 April 2019 - 11:57 AM

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I’d like to see an Israeli Tech Tree personally.

TheJumpMaster #123 Posted 18 April 2019 - 01:25 PM

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View PostSteeleye_Spam, on 18 April 2019 - 12:17 AM, said:

If you want an Israeli tank buy a Ravioli and stick an israeli flag on it.

shot_006.jpg



vuque #124 Posted 18 April 2019 - 04:33 PM

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View PostTheJumpMaster, on 18 April 2019 - 02:25 PM, said:

shot_006.jpg

 

Slowly getting there jumpy... :P

TheJumpMaster #125 Posted 18 April 2019 - 05:44 PM

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View Postvuque, on 18 April 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

 

Slowly getting there jumpy... :P

 

I'll never get there. I only have 5 tanks with the Israeli flag on it (one one side) All my other tanks have the old mCanadian flag and the Canadian Armoured Corp Flag

Mr_Beefy #126 Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:40 PM

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I think that what it will come down to is Dollars/Rubles/Euro's/Francs.

If the powers that be determine that an Israeli/Romanian/Turkish/Ex-Yugoslavian/any other nation will bring in money, then it will be featured.  If not, it won't.

 

Those that want original content (like the E50M....) and scoff at clones can BDS the clone lines.  



TheJumpMaster #127 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:08 PM

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View PostMr_Beefy, on 18 April 2019 - 08:40 PM, said:

I think that what it will come down to is Dollars/Rubles/Euro's/Francs.

If the powers that be determine that an Israeli/Romanian/Turkish/Ex-Yugoslavian/any other nation will bring in money, then it will be featured.  If not, it won't.

 

Those that want original content (like the E50M....) and scoff at clones can BDS the clone lines.  

 

Whilst I've said that there is no need for tech trees that are comprised of clones, this is a game and I will play what there is to play. The question if I would actively grind a "cloned" tech tree, we would have to wait and see what tanks are in it and how they perform.

Mr_Beefy #128 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:16 PM

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View PostTheJumpMaster, on 18 April 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

 

Whilst I've said that there is no need for tech trees that are comprised of clones, this is a game and I will play what there is to play. The question if I would actively grind a "cloned" tech tree, we would have to wait and see what tanks are in it and how they perform.

 

I have only 4 more tier 10's to unlock, and the Swede T8 MT is good to go cause I have 96k on the Leo T7.

I want as many tanks as possible.  I really don't care where they are from, if they were real or not, if they were modified versions (aka, clones).

I will buy T8/6 premium tanks to train the crews, I will compete in CW for reward tanks.  It's all the same to me.

I seriously do not understand anyone that does not want new content.

 

Are there more pressing issues in the game prior to or concurrent with introducing new content? Yes.  Having said that, I think that WG is a company that is capable of multi-tasking and getting everything done in due time.



Nishi_Kinuyo #129 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:19 PM

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View PostMr_Beefy, on 18 April 2019 - 07:40 PM, said:

I think that what it will come down to is Dollars/Rubles/Euro's/Francs.

If the powers that be determine that an Israeli/Romanian/Turkish/Ex-Yugoslavian/any other nation will bring in money, then it will be featured.  If not, it won't.

 

Those that want original content (like the E50M....) and scoff at clones can BDS the clone lines.  

No, people want original content like the 44M Tas or the 41M Turán II.

Tanks that were relevant in the time period where most of WoT's tanks come from.

 

Not Clone Tank XYZ from country QPR.



Mr_Beefy #130 Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:54 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 18 April 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

No, people want original content like the 44M Tas or the 41M Turán II.

Tanks that were relevant in the time period where most of WoT's tanks come from.

 

Not Clone Tank XYZ from country QPR.

 

With all due respect.  What do you know?  This forum represents maybe 0.05% of all players.  There are probably 200-300 regular posters here if that, then a few thousand occasional posters, beyond that the VAST majority of the players probably don't post here or know what busybody posters think.

I have not seen any polls here with more then 200-300 votes, mostly less then 40 votes.

The only visible statistics that people can see is the amount of tanks currently in circulation.  How many tech tree tanks, how many premium tanks. How many Reward tanks. Upon this a factual conversation can be had.

 

I am Israeli.  I would LOVE to have Israeli tanks in WoT.

A Hungarian would LOVE to have Hungarian tanks in the game.  

Pole's LOVE having Polish tanks in the game.

Germans LOVE having German tanks in the game...ETC.

 

Once a game is base on national tanks, and not dealer based tanks, like the dead game that was supposed to kill WoT, then it behoofs WG to add as many nations that can field a tech tree of whatever denomination.

 

Israel for instance, during the timeline that WOT follows, (WW1-1975) didn't exist as a nation state until 1948, and from 1948-1975 was at WAR!!  5 times, and in a state of War/uneasy cease fire for the rest of this time.  We didn't have the ability to invest billions in a imagination tank industry, what we could do was buy or capture as many tanks as countries would sell us and obviously as many tanks as we could capture in War, and modify them based on combat experience to create the best tank possible out of what we had.

Once France and Britain ceased selling Israel weapons in the late 60's, a decision was made to develop a home grown tank.  The result? A top 3-5 tank Worldwide in anyones list.  1st time out.  Without the growing pains of creating cwap tanks.

I think that is kind of cool.  Don't you?

 



Nishi_Kinuyo #131 Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:02 PM

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View PostMr_Beefy, on 18 April 2019 - 08:54 PM, said:

With all due respect.  What do you know?

 

Israel for instance, during the timeline that WOT follows, (WW1-1975) didn't exist as a nation state until 1948, and from 1948-1975 was at WAR!!  5 times, and in a state of War/uneasy cease fire for the rest of this time.  We didn't have the ability to invest billions in a imagination tank industry, what we could do was buy or capture as many tanks as countries would sell us and obviously as many tanks as we could capture in War, and modify them based on combat experience to create the best tank possible out of what we had.

Once France and Britain ceased selling Israel weapons in the late 60's, a decision was made to develop a home grown tank.  The result? A top 3-5 tank Worldwide in anyones list.  1st time out.  Without the growing pains of creating cwap tanks.

I think that is kind of cool.  Don't you?

 

 

And what I do know is that 95% of the tanks israel has had are tier 8-10 material, and clones from other nations at it.

No raison d'être for them to be in WoT since they're already in the game in other nations.

Be happy WG is adding a few premium shermans that israel has used, because that, afaik, is likely all you'll be seeing.

 

You don't see Indian people coming here onto the forum demanding that WG adds the Arjun to WoT either, do you?


Edited by Nishi_Kinuyo, 18 April 2019 - 09:03 PM.


Mr_Beefy #132 Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:03 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 18 April 2019 - 10:02 PM, said:

 

And what I do know is that 95% of the tanks israel has had are tier 8-10 material, and clones from other nations at it.

No raison d'être for them to be in WoT since they're already in the game in other nations.

Be happy WG is adding a few premium shermans that israel has used, because that, afaik, is likely all you'll be seeing.

 

You may be right, and you may be wrong.

Time will tell.

 

EDIT:

There are very few nations that had a tank industry in this world.

USA, USSR, UK, Germany, France, China, Japan, Czechoslovakia, Italy, Sweden, South Korea, Canada, Australia, Turkey, Yugoslavia, Romania, Hungary, Poland, And Israel (maybe a few more) are the only countries that actually created tanks from scratch.  (including modern times beyond WoT's timeline.)

There is a limit on how many drawings can be added, there is a limit on how many real tanks can be added.   

At a certain point, cetu.  No more.

I hope that time will not be soon.


Edited by Mr_Beefy, 18 April 2019 - 09:10 PM.


WindSplitter1 #133 Posted 03 May 2019 - 11:51 AM

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I'm not sure if there are Arab original designs for an "Arab League"/Arab Tech Tree but as @arthurwellsley stated,

 

View Postarthurwellsley, on 15 April 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

View PostMarcoStrapone, on 15 April 2019 - 07:06 PM, said:

the base of the merkava if we try to trace the roots, is centurion or named -  shot-kal after some settings,

 

Not really. The UK and Isreal co-developed a tank called Chieftain, which was going to be domestically produced in both countries, and in 1969 the UK cut the Israeli connection. The Merkava can trace it's roots to the Chieftain and not to the Centurion.

 

The FV4202 has an experimental turret which lead to the development of the Chieftain turret, but the hull was based off the Centurion but had the driver in a reclining position to permit the UFP to have a greater angle.

At the Battle of the Bridges Mk.5/2 Chieftains out fought T-72s.

 

Then we have the Chieftain Mk. 6 minibranch right here.

 

IL players get their iconic tank. UK players get their iconic tank. On top of having new content that is actually interesting and worth grinding for with little effort from WG and without breaking the game further (assuming proper balance).

 

Win-win-win-win situation for all parties involved.

 



DA_ZOHAN #134 Posted 03 May 2019 - 12:42 PM

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When it is all said and done, and Israeli tanks will be added to the game files as a part of a rest of the world tech tree, it will be interesting to see how many of the purists here will not grind them.

I think it would be hilarious to have an Egyptian or Syrian Gunner in a Mk1 Merkava for instance...



WoT_RU_Doing #135 Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:02 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 03 May 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

When it is all said and done, and Israeli tanks will be added to the game files as a part of a rest of the world tech tree, it will be interesting to see how many of the purists here will not grind them.

I think it would be hilarious to have an Egyptian or Syrian Gunner in a Mk1 Merkava for instance...

 

You seem to have a very odd view on the world. The fact that many people here cannot see the a clear advantage to having an Israeli tree does not mean that they would not grind one if it were added. They are simply voicing their opinion that most of the suggestions made so far include a large number of basically rebadged tanks. Inevitably, many people are already tired of this approach and would prefer to see the existing lines reworked.

I don't see your point about the Egyptians or Syrians either, why shouldn't they play the game? Are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to play the Israeli tach tree if one does come?



DA_ZOHAN #136 Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:34 PM

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View PostWoT_RU_Doing, on 03 May 2019 - 02:02 PM, said:

 

You seem to have a very odd view on the world. The fact that many people here cannot see the a clear advantage to having an Israeli tree does not mean that they would not grind one if it were added. They are simply voicing their opinion that most of the suggestions made so far include a large number of basically rebadged tanks. Inevitably, many people are already tired of this approach and would prefer to see the existing lines reworked.

I don't see your point about the Egyptians or Syrians either, why shouldn't they play the game? Are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to play the Israeli tach tree if one does come?

 

Rest of the world tech tree, with Egyptian or Syrian tanks, and crew, in an Israeli tank.  Peace through WoT.  A wonderful sentiment really.

WoT_RU_Doing #137 Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:37 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 03 May 2019 - 12:34 PM, said:

 

Rest of the world tech tree, with Egyptian or Syrian tanks, and crew, in an Israeli tank.  Peace through WoT.  A wonderful sentiment really.

 

Ah, understand now....thanks for clarifying.

rabitson #138 Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:45 PM

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View PostAxelfoley666, on 07 April 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

They could just sell vehicle skins if people wanted national variants. Middle east soviet, Israeli skins and cold war skins. 

 

This is one of the best ideas if I've seen so far.

Tilly042 #139 Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:35 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 09 April 2019 - 12:22 PM, said:

 

So basically, you don't want Israeli tanks in WoT, so you will nay say as much as you can?

I am shocked you have not said anything about my avatar yet.

 

Good thing your voice, just as much as mine, counts for nothing in WoT.

The only thing that counts is what WG can monetize.

 

Mate, I'd just ignore the comments from the folks that trawl the forums simply to goad responses rather than play the game.  Best wishes buddy and as far as I can see, any new tech trees are welcome whether the tanks are in the game or not.  As you say, there are enough subtle differences with tweaks to shermans, cents, etc to make the paly style different.

bbmoose #140 Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:49 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 09 April 2019 - 11:16 AM, said:

 

Actually, the clones you speak of.  Israel made significant improvements to every tank they had in inventory.

Shermans had their engines improved, and guns were replaced with higher caliber guns, suspension upgrades, fire control upgrades, plus, the obvious crew upgrades.

Israeli Shermans even fought in the 1973 war.  They were destroyed mostly, but they were facing T55's and T62's, and they got their fair share of kills.  Not too shabby for a tank that was conceived in WW2.

Israeli Centurions had their engines replaced from petrol to diesel engines because diesel engines performed better in desert conditions and the not desert but still hot Golan front, had their 20 pounders replaced with 105mm L7's.  Their fire control system upgrades were so good that Israeli Gunners had effectively doubled and then some the effective range at which tanks could be engaged and destroyed.  (Up to 5km, whereas 2km was considered the max)

Plus the Gun Depression was modified to exceed 15 degrees, up to 18 degrees.  Very useful considering the terrain in which battles were fought.  In the Golan, many volcanic hills and valleys, so hull down positions controlled the low ground.  In the Sinai, dunes upon dunes.  

I would LOVE to have a Centurion in this game with 15-18 degrees of gun depression.  Wouldn't we all?

 

Israeli Pattons, (M46, and M48's, then M60's) had their engines upgraded, the turret upgraded and shaved the cupola to make it stealthier in hull down positions, as well as upgraded guns from the 90mm guns to the 105mm L7.  Obviously, the same upgrades to the fire control system ensued, and kill ranges increased heavily.

That is not going into the upgrades that started in the late 70's early 90's, with HEAT protection and Chobham style armor upgrades.

The Turkish Army had Israel upgrade all of their M48 and M60 Pattons to Magach standard (Magach = 80's upgraded Pattons)

 

Captured T54's, T55's, and T62's were upgraded as well.  Then pressed into service for clandestine operations within Syria and Lebanon.

 

Given the choice, which T54 or T55 or T62 would you pick. The USSR version? Or Israeli version?

 

 

So basically you want a better, improved Israeli version of a UK or USA tank at every tier?

 

Quick edit: now I'm thinking of it, the Ravioli works fine. It's an old design, improved and put on a higher tier. Very unique gameplay if you ask me. I like the glasscanon concept for mediumtanks. But in that way they might not come up with a good tier X which fits in the chronological path of a techtree. But than again: the STRV's are from the 70's and so is the STB-1. Maybe a Merkava prototype is viable.

 

More content is better. I'm not the kind of player that grinds everything, I only grind the lines I like.


Edited by bbmoose, 03 May 2019 - 03:02 PM.





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