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Israelian tech tree

tanks world of tanks tech tree israel merkava

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Rataplan #41 Posted 08 April 2019 - 10:51 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 08 April 2019 - 07:56 PM, said:

 

How about the obvious...

Additional content.

This has nothing to do with politics or whatever.

Add Iranian tanks, add Palestinian tanks, add tanks from Timbaktu and Luxembourg and the Vatican and The Faroe Islands.

Just more content.

 

edited


Edited by 11poseidon11, 09 April 2019 - 07:38 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to trolling


Nishi_Kinuyo #42 Posted 08 April 2019 - 11:05 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 08 April 2019 - 09:08 AM, said:

Regarding the Merkava in WoT?  The FV215B is as close to it as can be, The Merkava Prototype and Mk 1 would fit in to WoT.  The Mk 1 was armed with the classic 105mm L7, so the gun fits WoT.

Centurion variants, Tirans (T54/5/62 that were captured and modified), Shermans, The Cromwell that was ""liberated"" from the British Mandate troops by a kind Scotsman, the MicroMaus which was the 1st tank in Israeli service.  Several Hotchkiss tanks captured by Israeli forces on the Syrian front.

There is more then enough material. 

More than enough clones, you mean.

 

And I'm probably not speaking for just myself when I say that we don't need another clone nation with one unique tank at the end of it.


Edited by Nishi_Kinuyo, 08 April 2019 - 11:06 PM.


WoT_RU_Doing #43 Posted 09 April 2019 - 01:54 AM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 08 April 2019 - 10:05 PM, said:

More than enough clones, you mean.

 

And I'm probably not speaking for just myself when I say that we don't need another clone nation with one unique tank at the end of it.

 

Personally, I think WG should make individual historically accurate pre-set styles or skins for various nations....e.g. Israeli M4A1 Rev, Centurion, and so on, and maybe Egyptian or Palestinian markings for the forthcoming M4A1 FL 10, etc. After all, the Lorr 40t comes with a camo set that is useable only on the one tank, and we've also had the 3D skins introduced recently on things like the BDR, KV-2 and the 4 tanks at Christmas. They could do generic national skins for a tank (e.g. M4A1 Rev) for credits/gold like the existing system, and then sell a premium version representing a well known tanker's vehicle in the premium shop.

Captain_Kremen0 #44 Posted 09 April 2019 - 08:26 AM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 08 April 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:

Your 1st statement is not something I prefer to address in this forum for the obvious reasons.

 

Your 2nd statement is correct, although Jordanians also possessed Centurions and Pattons and they were annihilated as well.

On the evening of the 2nd day of the 1973 war, The Northern sector of the Golan Heights saw odds of over 20 to 1, with the Israeli's obviously being victorious.

Syrian tanks were equipped with Infra Red projectors, gunners had infra red scopes.  Israeli tanks did not, only Commanders had Infra Red Bino's.  Even with this HUGE advantage, Syria still could not prevail.

I have long suspected that Israeli superiority with Centurions and Pattons and Shermans and AMX 13-75's over T34-85's, T54's, T55's, and T62's led to the former tanks being worse then the latter in WoT.

I don't think that there were any tank battles in the Vietnam war.  if any, probably at no more then platoon level, no chance of any more then that. 

Overwhelming numbers; superior technology; I can imagine them coming on the Forum and being told to "Git Gud".

 

Don't see why my first statement should rankle. Most nations have arisen from one group throwing off the shackles of oppression .......they always keep the shackles handy just in case though.



DA_ZOHAN #45 Posted 09 April 2019 - 08:52 AM

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View Postjabster, on 08 April 2019 - 09:18 PM, said:

 

Which doesn’t address the point I made.

Well, you seem to be more politically motivated then content motivated.

The way my answer to you is absolutely relevant is that the reason why Israeli tanks are relevant for WoT is simply more content for players to grind, and buy premium tanks.

I suppose that is not a good thing.  More content.

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 09 April 2019 - 12:05 AM, said:

More than enough clones, you mean.

 

And I'm probably not speaking for just myself when I say that we don't need another clone nation with one unique tank at the end of it.

I disagree.  I have all tanks researched.  Most everything I want in my garage is there, I just play for kicks and grind missions and such.  

So for me, a new line is bliss.

I don't care where the tech tree comes from.  Just as long as new content is added.

The fact that I am Israeli is not relevant.  As stated previously, I don't care where the tanks are from, so long as new lines are introduced.

View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 09 April 2019 - 09:26 AM, said:

Overwhelming numbers; superior technology; I can imagine them coming on the Forum and being told to "Git Gud".

 

Don't see why my first statement should rankle. Most nations have arisen from one group throwing off the shackles of oppression .......they always keep the shackles handy just in case though.

Look, discussing actual politics here is something that I did previously, a few years back.

It is frowned upon.

I do not intend to discuss politics here.

Want to talk about historical tank battles?  I am certain that there is a place for that here on this forum.  But discussing anything other then tanks here is a no no.



Captain_Kremen0 #46 Posted 09 April 2019 - 09:25 AM

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More content yes - but it has to have some relevance and an Israeli tech tree would just be too modern

I'm not sure very sure where new vehicles would fit in, but more maps and maybe different modes wouldn't be amiss.

View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 09 April 2019 - 07:52 AM, said:

The fact that I am Israeli is not relevant.  As stated previously, I don't care where the tanks are from, so long as new lines are introduced.

Look, discussing actual politics here is something that I did previously, a few years back.

It is frowned upon.

I do not intend to discuss politics here.

I remember. You lost the argument if I remember rightly.

My statement was more historical than political and certainly not a dig you or your nationality, more a generalisation.



jabster #47 Posted 09 April 2019 - 09:30 AM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 09 April 2019 - 07:52 AM, said:

Well, you seem to be more politically motivated then content motivated.

The way my answer to you is absolutely relevant is that the reason why Israeli tanks are relevant for WoT is simply more content for players to grind, and buy premium tanks.

I suppose that is not a good thing.  More content.

I disagree.  I have all tanks researched.  Most everything I want in my garage is there, I just play for kicks and grind missions and such.  

So for me, a new line is bliss.

I don't care where the tech tree comes from.  Just as long as new content is added.

The fact that I am Israeli is not relevant.  As stated previously, I don't care where the tanks are from, so long as new lines are introduced.

Look, discussing actual politics here is something that I did previously, a few years back.

It is frowned upon.

I do not intend to discuss politics here.

Want to talk about historical tank battles?  I am certain that there is a place for that here on this forum.  But discussing anything other then tanks here is a no no.

 

No I'm pointing out the direction WG have when adding new nations especially considering the idea of an other nations tech tree doesn’t seem one they are keen on.

 

New content on its own isn’t enough.



TheJumpMaster #48 Posted 09 April 2019 - 09:37 AM

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If I'm correct, we already have an "Israeli" tank in the game if the form of the Rev. An entire tech tree, in my personal opinion, would not really be possible or enjoyable.

DA_ZOHAN #49 Posted 09 April 2019 - 09:53 AM

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View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 09 April 2019 - 10:25 AM, said:

More content yes - but it has to have some relevance and an Israeli tech tree would just be too modern

I'm not sure very sure where new vehicles would fit in, but more maps and maybe different modes wouldn't be amiss.

I remember. You lost the argument if I remember rightly.

My statement was more historical than political and certainly not a dig you or your nationality, more a generalisation.

 

I don't think that you or any of the other posters are in a position to determine that.

The determining factor will be what WG will do.

I personally think that once they fill out the original lines to the hilt, and add as much content as they can to the newer lines, WG will be at a point where they will have to add tech trees from other nations, as well as a rest of world tech tree.

Or, they can stop adding content.

 

It seems to me that you would prefer the latter rather than the former.

08:56 Added after 2 minutes

View Postjabster, on 09 April 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

 

No I'm pointing out the direction WG have when adding new nations especially considering the idea of an other nations tech tree doesn’t seem one they are keen on.

 

New content on its own isn’t enough.

We shall see.  Time has a way of answering this issue.

View PostTheJumpMaster, on 09 April 2019 - 10:37 AM, said:

If I'm correct, we already have an "Israeli" tank in the game if the form of the Rev. An entire tech tree, in my personal opinion, would not really be possible or enjoyable.

You.

Post this in the Israeli WoT FB page.  Say that you don't want Israeli tanks in the game because of the Ravioli.

 

09:05 Added after 11 minutes

It seems to me like the nay sayers here are against an Israeli tech tree for political reasons, and cetu.

Why would anyone be against a new tech tree?  Unless of course it is not political, and they simply want WG to stop adding new content, leaving the game to stagnate, and eventually die out.

 

In the 6-7 years or so that I have played WoT, The Japanese line, the CZ line, the Italian line, and the Polish line were added. Japanese HT's added, A Chinese TD line added, New USA LT's, tier 10 lights, some shuffling of tech tree tanks to premium and removal of ridiculous things like the WTFE100.

I didn't care what flag was on the tank.  WoT is not about politics to me, it is about gaming, and shooting pixel tanks.

I seriously do not understand why anyone who loves this game would be against new content.

I said it before, I will say it again, I don't give a **** where they come up with new content.  A sealed box found in Venice with drawings by Leonardo Da Vinci with tanks? GREAT!!  

It makes no difference to me from where.  Just make a tier 1-10, make sure it is balanced, and release the kraken.

 

I have loads of female crew from missions and loot boxes with no tanks to put them on.  I recently made a full crew on the Leo T7 Swedish tank, in anticipation of the tier 8-10 MT's coming out.

MORE NEW TANK!!! MORE NEW CONTENT!!



DA_ZOHAN #50 Posted 09 April 2019 - 12:16 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 09 April 2019 - 12:05 AM, said:

More than enough clones, you mean.

 

And I'm probably not speaking for just myself when I say that we don't need another clone nation with one unique tank at the end of it.

 

Actually, the clones you speak of.  Israel made significant improvements to every tank they had in inventory.

Shermans had their engines improved, and guns were replaced with higher caliber guns, suspension upgrades, fire control upgrades, plus, the obvious crew upgrades.

Israeli Shermans even fought in the 1973 war.  They were destroyed mostly, but they were facing T55's and T62's, and they got their fair share of kills.  Not too shabby for a tank that was conceived in WW2.

Israeli Centurions had their engines replaced from petrol to diesel engines because diesel engines performed better in desert conditions and the not desert but still hot Golan front, had their 20 pounders replaced with 105mm L7's.  Their fire control system upgrades were so good that Israeli Gunners had effectively doubled and then some the effective range at which tanks could be engaged and destroyed.  (Up to 5km, whereas 2km was considered the max)

Plus the Gun Depression was modified to exceed 15 degrees, up to 18 degrees.  Very useful considering the terrain in which battles were fought.  In the Golan, many volcanic hills and valleys, so hull down positions controlled the low ground.  In the Sinai, dunes upon dunes.  

I would LOVE to have a Centurion in this game with 15-18 degrees of gun depression.  Wouldn't we all?

 

Israeli Pattons, (M46, and M48's, then M60's) had their engines upgraded, the turret upgraded and shaved the cupola to make it stealthier in hull down positions, as well as upgraded guns from the 90mm guns to the 105mm L7.  Obviously, the same upgrades to the fire control system ensued, and kill ranges increased heavily.

That is not going into the upgrades that started in the late 70's early 90's, with HEAT protection and Chobham style armor upgrades.

The Turkish Army had Israel upgrade all of their M48 and M60 Pattons to Magach standard (Magach = 80's upgraded Pattons)

 

Captured T54's, T55's, and T62's were upgraded as well.  Then pressed into service for clandestine operations within Syria and Lebanon.

 

Given the choice, which T54 or T55 or T62 would you pick. The USSR version? Or Israeli version?

 



jabster #51 Posted 09 April 2019 - 12:28 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 09 April 2019 - 11:16 AM, said:

 

Actually, the clones you speak of.  Israel made significant improvements to every tank they had in inventory.

Shermans had their engines improved, and guns were replaced with higher caliber guns, suspension upgrades, fire control upgrades, plus, the obvious crew upgrades.

Israeli Shermans even fought in the 1973 war.  They were destroyed mostly, but they were facing T55's and T62's, and they got their fair share of kills.  Not too shabby for a tank that was conceived in WW2.

Israeli Centurions had their engines replaced from petrol to diesel engines because diesel engines performed better in desert conditions and the not desert but still hot Golan front, had their 20 pounders replaced with 105mm L7's.  Their fire control system upgrades were so good that Israeli Gunners had effectively doubled and then some the effective range at which tanks could be engaged and destroyed.  (Up to 5km, whereas 2km was considered the max)

Plus the Gun Depression was modified to exceed 15 degrees, up to 18 degrees.  Very useful considering the terrain in which battles were fought.  In the Golan, many volcanic hills and valleys, so hull down positions controlled the low ground.  In the Sinai, dunes upon dunes.  

I would LOVE to have a Centurion in this game with 15-18 degrees of gun depression.  Wouldn't we all?

 

Israeli Pattons, (M46, and M48's, then M60's) had their engines upgraded, the turret upgraded and shaved the cupola to make it stealthier in hull down positions, as well as upgraded guns from the 90mm guns to the 105mm L7.  Obviously, the same upgrades to the fire control system ensued, and kill ranges increased heavily.

That is not going into the upgrades that started in the late 70's early 90's, with HEAT protection and Chobham style armor upgrades.

The Turkish Army had Israel upgrade all of their M48 and M60 Pattons to Magach standard (Magach = 80's upgraded Pattons)

 

Captured T54's, T55's, and T62's were upgraded as well.  Then pressed into service for clandestine operations within Syria and Lebanon.

 

Given the choice, which T54 or T55 or T62 would you pick. The USSR version? Or Israeli version?

 

 

So basically a tech tree of variants to existing tech tree tanks that will then be balanced around whichever tier they end up in or are you suggesting to introduce a number of OP tanks?

DA_ZOHAN #52 Posted 09 April 2019 - 01:22 PM

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View Postjabster, on 09 April 2019 - 01:28 PM, said:

 

So basically a tech tree of variants to existing tech tree tanks that will then be balanced around whichever tier they end up in or are you suggesting to introduce a number of OP tanks?

 

So basically, you don't want Israeli tanks in WoT, so you will nay say as much as you can?

I am shocked you have not said anything about my avatar yet.

 

Good thing your voice, just as much as mine, counts for nothing in WoT.

The only thing that counts is what WG can monetize.


Edited by DA_ZOHAN, 09 April 2019 - 01:23 PM.


jabster #53 Posted 09 April 2019 - 01:29 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 09 April 2019 - 12:22 PM, said:

 

So basically, you don't want Israeli tanks in WoT, so you will nay say as much as you can?

I am shocked you have not said anything about my avatar yet.

 

Good thing your voice, just as much as mine, counts for nothing in WoT.

The only thing that counts is what WG can monetize.

 

Oh gee, you really have got a chip on your shoulder haven’t you. It’s somewhat amusing to see you accusing others of bringing politics into this thread when you are main instigator of doing that. Honestly get over yourself, you, and your country, are not as important to others as you seem to think they are.

DA_ZOHAN #54 Posted 09 April 2019 - 01:33 PM

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View Postjabster, on 09 April 2019 - 02:29 PM, said:

 

Oh gee, you really have got a chip on your shoulder haven’t you. It’s somewhat amusing to see you accusing others of bringing politics into this thread when you are main instigator of doing that. Honestly get over yourself, you, and your country, are not as important to others as you seem to think they are.

 

I would say the same to you.

I find it amusing that you will try to bring any excuse you can as to why not more content.

 

But then I look at your battle count vs. your forum post count, and I realize that you just troll the forums, you have no interest in the actual game.

 

Approximately 595 tanks in the game files.

You say that is enough.  No need for more.  And if more, from any nation that doesn't have clone tanks.  So you should by that level, be opposed to the Chinese Branch.

Got a Type 59?  OH DEAR!! It is a T54 clone.  

Got a Type 61 Japanese Tier 9 MT?  Oh dear, it is an M46 Clone.

Got a Pudel?  Hell, it is a tier 6 stock Panther.

Low tier German Tanks?  Copied CZ tanks.

There are clones in every tech tree almost.  

The idea is, once again, to try to get into that stubborn void of yours, MORE CONTENT!!!


Edited by DA_ZOHAN, 09 April 2019 - 01:37 PM.


jabster #55 Posted 09 April 2019 - 01:55 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 09 April 2019 - 12:33 PM, said:

 

I would say the same to you.

I find it amusing that you will try to bring any excuse you can as to why not more content.

 

But then I look at your battle count vs. your forum post count, and I realize that you just troll the forums, you have no interest in the actual game.

 

Approximately 595 tanks in the game files.

You say that is enough.  No need for more.  And if more, from any nation that doesn't have clone tanks.  So you should by that level, be opposed to the Chinese Branch.

Got a Type 59?  OH DEAR!! It is a T54 clone.  

Got a Type 61 Japanese Tier 9 MT?  Oh dear, it is an M46 Clone.

Got a Pudel?  Hell, it is a tier 6 stock Panther.

Low tier German Tanks?  Copied CZ tanks.

There are clones in every tech tree almost.  

The idea is, once again, to try to get into that stubborn void of yours, MORE CONTENT!!!

 

Yes more content that adds something interesting to the game and you’ve still failed to say why WG should bring your hobby horse tech tree to the game.

Captain_Kremen0 #56 Posted 09 April 2019 - 02:49 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 09 April 2019 - 08:53 AM, said:

 

It seems to me like the nay sayers here are against an Israeli tech tree for political reasons, and cetu.

Why would anyone be against a new tech tree?  Unless of course it is not political, and they simply want WG to stop adding new content, leaving the game to stagnate, and eventually die out.

 

It's not political - they just are not time relevant to the era of WoT; and the ones that would be are clones we have already seen.

And the game WILL stagnate and die out at some point - Death and taxes (although WG are defo working on the taxes angle) are certainties.



fisco77 #57 Posted 09 April 2019 - 06:09 PM

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View Postqpranger, on 07 April 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

I want the Mammoth tank from Red Alert.

 

Well one option would be the ST-II. Honestly i don't get it why that tank isn't in the game yet, i guess WG forgot about it...

 

As for Israeli tanks, i think no, things are heating up down there and there might be war soon, i don't think WG wants to be connected with that in any way, remember we never got Berlin map because of that, and Paris was postponed too i think...



Nishi_Kinuyo #58 Posted 09 April 2019 - 06:56 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 09 April 2019 - 01:33 PM, said:

 

I would say the same to you.

I find it amusing that you will try to bring any excuse you can as to why not more content.

 

But then I look at your battle count vs. your forum post count, and I realize that you just troll the forums, you have no interest in the actual game.

 

Approximately 595 tanks in the game files.

You say that is enough.  No need for more.  And if more, from any nation that doesn't have clone tanks.  So you should by that level, be opposed to the Chinese Branch.

Got a Type 59?  OH DEAR!! It is a T54 clone.  

Got a Type 61 Japanese Tier 9 MT?  Oh dear, it is an M46 Clone.

Got a Pudel?  Hell, it is a tier 6 stock Panther.

Low tier German Tanks?  Copied CZ tanks.

There are clones in every tech tree almost.  

The idea is, once again, to try to get into that stubborn void of yours, MORE CONTENT!!!

And like I sort-of pointed out:

One or two clones in a techtree isn't the problem.

An entire techtree full of clones save one or two is a problem.

Especially if almost all of them are tier 8-10 material.

 

And yes, I do take offence at the China tree being full of clones.

But I also realise that their raison d'être is the existance of the Chinese Kongzhong server.

No matter how you slice the pie, there's no such raison d'être for the Israeli.


Edited by Nishi_Kinuyo, 09 April 2019 - 06:56 PM.


DA_ZOHAN #59 Posted 09 April 2019 - 07:23 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 09 April 2019 - 07:56 PM, said:

And like I sort-of pointed out:

One or two clones in a techtree isn't the problem.

An entire techtree full of clones save one or two is a problem.

Especially if almost all of them are tier 8-10 material.

 

And yes, I do take offence at the China tree being full of clones.

But I also realise that their raison d'être is the existance of the Chinese Kongzhong server.

No matter how you slice the pie, there's no such raison d'être for the Israeli.

 

Here it goes again.

I am not saying that the Israeli tanks fit in a solo tech tree like USA/UK/Germany/USSR/France....

They do not.

 

However, they do fit in a rest of the world tech tree.  Countries which produced or modified tanks, but do not fit the entire WoT timeline or cannot have a full tier 1 - 10 line.

People need to get past their prejudice over Israel, and get with the program, more tech trees, more tanks.  Not 612 tanks in the game files, but 800, when 800, not 800, 1000....



Nishi_Kinuyo #60 Posted 09 April 2019 - 07:42 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 09 April 2019 - 07:23 PM, said:

 

Here it goes again.

I am not saying that the Israeli tanks fit in a solo tech tree like USA/UK/Germany/USSR/France....

They do not.

 

However, they do fit in a rest of the world tech tree.  Countries which produced or modified tanks, but do not fit the entire WoT timeline or cannot have a full tier 1 - 10 line.

People need to get past their prejudice over Israel, and get with the program, more tech trees, more tanks.  Not 612 tanks in the game files, but 800, when 800, not 800, 1000....

Except this has nothing to do with it being Israel or not.

For all I care it could be Swaziland.

If there's not enough material to make a viable, interesting, and mostly unique techtree, it has no place in the game (imo).






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