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new MM and pref MM vehicles. Are they Obsolete?

MM pref MM pref vehicles

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deorum #1 Posted 08 April 2019 - 02:45 PM

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Hello, 

 

Title i believe says it all.

 

New MM seems to really work, and thats a very good thing. I estimate that around 9/10 games in t8 vehicles don't meet t10 enemies. 

However the few games i played in my pref MM vehicles (like the 112) seem to be also stuck in t8 matches. 

Most t8 tanks, pref or non-pref MM, seem to play against same tier enemies, so is now any real advantage to the pref MM tanks? 
Or the only advantage is the odd, 1/10 games that is still not facing tier 10s? 

 

Thanks !



Jumping_Turtle #2 Posted 08 April 2019 - 02:50 PM

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View Postdeorum, on 08 April 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

Or the only advantage is the odd, 1/10 games that is still not facing tier 10s? 

 

Extra credits, extra crewtraining is what I use them for.



deorum #3 Posted 08 April 2019 - 02:53 PM

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any other tier8 premium has this extra credit/xp bonus etc. 

 

What is the point of the pref-MM vehicles now? 
Just the 1/10 games? 
Do they get for example more tier6-tier7 enemies? 



Jumping_Turtle #4 Posted 08 April 2019 - 02:56 PM

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Well I do see a lot more tier 10 in my normal T8 premiums than you are doing at the moment. I am still at 5/10 at least.

deorum #5 Posted 08 April 2019 - 03:02 PM

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View PostJumping_Turtle, on 08 April 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

Well I do see a lot more tier 10 in my normal T8 premiums than you are doing at the moment. I am still at 5/10 at least.

 

I haven't played a lot of t8 prems tbh, but usual tech tree t8 that im playing, 9/10 games DONT see tier10 games or even tier9!

 

new MM seems to really be working. 

I haven't done any proper statistical analysis so far, but this is my impression last 3-4 days and around 100 games. 



Rati_Festa #6 Posted 08 April 2019 - 03:04 PM

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View Postdeorum, on 08 April 2019 - 02:53 PM, said:

Do they get for example more tier6-tier7 enemies? 

 

Yes, I would like to know this too. I think it is no, I don't WG have commented on it though.

 

They appear to think the buffs they completed on them a few months ago has solved the issue..... they are clearly wrong.

14:04 Added after 0 minutes

View Postdeorum, on 08 April 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

 

I haven't played a lot of t8 prems tbh, but usual tech tree t8 that im playing, 9/10 games DONT see tier10 games or even tier9!

 

new MM seems to really be working. 

I haven't done any proper statistical analysis so far, but this is my impression last 3-4 days and around 100 games. 

 

Are you just seeing lots of all t8 games? in your stand mm t8 tanks? I am.

Balc0ra #7 Posted 08 April 2019 - 03:08 PM

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IS-6, def yes. T26E4... nooo he loves the new MM with 202 AP and that gold pen. As my IS-6 when testing got more or less just pure tier 8 games. And vs the common tier 8 HT's today. That pen is not ideal. Nor is the 40 to 50% chance at the perfect impact angle vs the VK 100.01 with gold ammo. And that lower plate is not always 220 effective more so then it is 250 effective. 

Edited by Balc0ra, 08 April 2019 - 03:13 PM.


deorum #8 Posted 08 April 2019 - 03:13 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 08 April 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

 

Yes, I would like to know this too. I think it is no, I don't WG have commented on it though.

 

They appear to think the buffs they completed on them a few months ago has solved the issue..... they are clearly wrong.

14:04 Added after 0 minutes

 

Are you just seeing lots of all t8 games? in your stand mm t8 tanks? I am.

 

Yes, normal tech-tree t8 see 9/10 games full t8 games. 9/10 times they essentially have the same MM as pref-MM vehicles. 
 

It doesn't matter if i play pref-MM, or non-pref MM tanks, 9/10 games i dont see t10 enemies! 

 

I never really understood what is the point of having a t8 pref-MM vehicle, and give it a t7 gun... (it really defeats its purpose) but this is a further an indirect nerf, or a heavy powercreep if you ask me. 
 

 



Steve8066 #9 Posted 08 April 2019 - 03:15 PM

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View Postdeorum, on 08 April 2019 - 03:13 PM, said:

 

Yes, normal tech-tree t8 see 9/10 games full t8 games. 9/10 times they essentially have the same MM as pref-MM vehicles. 
 

It doesn't matter if i play pref-MM, or non-pref MM tanks, 9/10 games i dont see t10 enemies! 

 

I never really understood what is the point of having a t8 pref-MM vehicle, and give it a t7 gun... (it really defeats its purpose) but this is a further an indirect nerf, or a heavy powercreep if you ask me. 
 

 

 

then can i have your MM setup please because i still see plenty of Tier 10s in mine.



FluffyRedFox #10 Posted 08 April 2019 - 03:20 PM

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Pref MM feels an awful lot better for me now, and not having to deal with +2 is really nice for a tank that I'm gonna play consectively.

Balc0ra #11 Posted 08 April 2019 - 03:25 PM

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View Postdeorum, on 08 April 2019 - 03:13 PM, said:

I never really understood what is the point of having a t8 pref-MM vehicle, and give it a t7 gun... (it really defeats its purpose) but this is a further an indirect nerf, or a heavy powercreep if you ask me.

 

IS-6 was great with that 175 pen gun when it was added. And the meta and the target it faces are not the same anymore. Nor has WG added any new pref MM tank for years. As they even did remove some of them from sale, before they added a few back again. But I'm sure you know what did happen when WG wanted to remove the pref MM status of them, and buff them for +2MM.

 

T26E4 is fine tbh. 112 and 111 have the 250 HEAT pen so they kinda work. The 88 still has above 200 base pen. But the KV-5 and the IS-6 still lacks on the gun area. Idk why WG thought an 11mm pen buff would fix everything for a brawler when all the armor they have added of late on tier 8 have 220mm weakspots. But the SP went from 192 to 202 pen. Giving it more pen the any tier 8 US med with +2 MM for a support role.

 

 



deorum #12 Posted 08 April 2019 - 03:27 PM

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View PostFluffyRedFox, on 08 April 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

Pref MM feels an awful lot better for me now, and not having to deal with +2 is really nice for a tank that I'm gonna play consectively.

 

You seem to have confused some terms. 

 

MM feels a lot better now. We agree.

Pref-MM, refers to vehicles that already NEVER saw +2 enemies. 
for pref (preferential) MM vehicles this "impovement" was already here, and that is why we bought them. Nothing really changed for them, or has it? Every vehicle now is almost the same as pref-MM vehicles. 


Edited by deorum, 08 April 2019 - 03:40 PM.


FluffyRedFox #13 Posted 08 April 2019 - 03:32 PM

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View Postdeorum, on 08 April 2019 - 02:27 PM, said:

 

You seem to have confused some terms. 

 

MM feels a lot better now. We agree.

Pref-MM, refers to vehicles that already NEVER saw +2 enemies. 
for pref (preferential) MM vehicles this "imporovement" was already here, and that is why we bought them... 

I mean in the way that Pref MM tanks will never be obsolete, since they will never see +2. Personally I don't really feel a difference in standard matchmaking t8s, so I find it quite nice that I have a pref t8 I can fall back on if I want a match where I don't have to be needlessly cucked by matchmaking.



deorum #14 Posted 08 April 2019 - 03:41 PM

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Ok, then we have to disagree, i do see a huge different in standard matchmaking. New MM really works! 

Anymn #15 Posted 08 April 2019 - 04:26 PM

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In my opinion, tier 8 PMM should be reworked. Considering they are a tier 7.5, give them a tier 7 matchmaking with a -1/+2 spread, and draw in an equal amount of tier 8 PMM tanks per team. This way, they end up against the same tiers of opponents - 6,7,8,9 - but seeing healthier quantities of them.

 



Rati_Festa #16 Posted 08 April 2019 - 04:36 PM

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View Postdeorum, on 08 April 2019 - 03:13 PM, said:

 

Yes, normal tech-tree t8 see 9/10 games full t8 games. 9/10 times they essentially have the same MM as pref-MM vehicles. 
 

It doesn't matter if i play pref-MM, or non-pref MM tanks, 9/10 games i dont see t10 enemies! 

 

I never really understood what is the point of having a t8 pref-MM vehicle, and give it a t7 gun... (it really defeats its purpose) but this is a further an indirect nerf, or a heavy powercreep if you ask me. 
 

 

 

​Sorry what I was asking is are you seeing many t6 or t7. I'm finding that my t8s see t10's less but not t6 or t7 more, I just see lots and lots of T8 tanks.

Schepel #17 Posted 08 April 2019 - 04:53 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 08 April 2019 - 04:36 PM, said:

 

​Sorry what I was asking is are you seeing many t6 or t7. I'm finding that my t8s see t10's less but not t6 or t7 more, I just see lots and lots of T8 tanks.

 

Not really. All things considered, regular T8 premiums are now a lot less unpleasant to play. T8 pref MM tanks have been power crept to the point of semi-useless. It used to be that with some skill and knowledge of weakspots, you could pull your weight. Not anymore. At best, you are relegated to a medium killer, but in a meta where just about everybody camps while the heavies decide who wins the game, this is a lot less relevant than it may seem. T8 pref heavies need a solid buff on their gold pen at the very least. Alternatively, recent T8 heavies need to be nerfed. And that does include tanks like the defender. 

Bordhaw #18 Posted 08 April 2019 - 07:33 PM

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View Postdeorum, on 08 April 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

Ok, then we have to disagree, i do see a huge different in standard matchmaking. New MM really works! 

 

 

I don't see hundreds of other players complaining...

 



deorum #19 Posted 08 April 2019 - 07:38 PM

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View PostBordhaw, on 08 April 2019 - 06:33 PM, said:

 

 

I don't see hundreds of other players complaining...

 

 

Why would they complain? 

New MM is better, you see much more equal tier enemies than +2 ... ? 



kubawt112 #20 Posted 08 April 2019 - 09:02 PM

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View PostAnymn, on 08 April 2019 - 04:26 PM, said:

In my opinion, tier 8 PMM should be reworked. Considering they are a tier 7.5, give them a tier 7 matchmaking with a -1/+2 spread, and draw in an equal amount of tier 8 PMM tanks per team. This way, they end up against the same tiers of opponents - 6,7,8,9 - but seeing healthier quantities of them.

 

 

Something along these lines have been mentioned in a Q&A at some point (early 2018). The issue was apparently that it didn't look good. I believe he didn't explain exactly why, but chances are that the T6/7 tanks wouldn't think it was nice to fight against a T8, PMM or not. Perhaps even the matchmaker don't have the numbers to allow it anyway. Hard to tell.

 

PMM is a sad story anyway. Scapegoat for bad matchmaking; rebalancing apparently intended to club lower tiers even harder; powercrept by maps, armor profiles and other tanks. The obvious choice was to remove them from sale back when they intended to, which is years ago at this point, and then gradually adjust them as needed, keeping them as prizes or whatever. Alternatively introduce more radical changes with an option to sell or keep the 'old' version. Alas, someone apparently thought it was a great idea to make all the PMM replacements into 'special offers' for cash only.

 

(A good start would actually be something similar to what is proposed - matching PMM tanks against each other. Currently, a KV-5 is categorized as a 'superheavy', which means it is intended to be matched up against VKPs, 252s, Chrysler Ks and a few others - not stuff it can actually combat in ordinary, linear combat. On a related note, the obvious fix to the FCM 50t would be to MM-categorize it as a medium tank, and to buff something about the gun, not the engine power and DPM.)


Edited by kubawt112, 08 April 2019 - 09:03 PM.





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