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Marathon done! Let's take a look....

TS-5 Marathon TS-5 Marathon completed Marathon done TS-5 success

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111BeoWolf111 #1 Posted 10 April 2019 - 01:11 AM

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Well, I've finished the TS-5 marathon, and I have to admit;

It has been quite significantly easier than the last marathon I played for, which was the SU-130PM.

Getting the tank, I know why it is substantially easier. I feel as if the TS-5 is absolutely abysmal. Abysmal, i tell you!
The tank features the same (in my opinion and playstyle, awful) characteristics the T28 has (ten degrees gun arc to the left and right, five degrees depression) but it has two factors about it that make the T28 a decent, if not good vehicle; and absolutely kill the TS-5, at least for me.

I - It's tall. Really tall.
The TS-5 is significantly taller than the T28. This is bad for you in two ways:
1. The camo rating is noticeably worse. Hiding away sniping will get you spotted a lot more easily than with the T28. 
2. With -5 degrees of gun depression and a tall chassis, the TS-5 is not as capable as using short rubble to hide its horrendous lower frontal plate and engage opponents with it hidden. Likewise, using small dents and inclines in the battlefield to make that -5 depression angle slightly angle your superstructure and hide the glacis is also a no-go. 
These two factors mean that the TS-5 is a bigger target, with weakspots that are larger and easier to hit when you are engaging it. 

II - The gun. OH BOY, the gun.
The premium monstrosity boasts the "same" gun as the T28, T34, T28 Prototype... The 120 mil. all american tank drivers are accustomed to by now. Except, it has, again, two factors that negatively impact it's efficiency in the match-ups. 
1. The accuracy is abysmal. Absolutely horrible. 0.44 is... We're talking USSR derp gun levels of dispersion right here. Hitting targets that are 250m+ away is a lost cause. The precision on this steel machine is really, really bad. 
2. The bloom (the 'circle' within which the shells are supposed to land in) when you're fully aimed is huge. Gigantic! This makes scoring penetrations on weakspots if you manage to hit the target you're engaging almost impossible. 

In conclusion, while the armor is extremely thick, it has its glaring weak points. The gun forces you to approach your enemies as close as you can, because that's the only way you'll hit them. Not reliably (because it can miss weakpoints of tanks even at 30-80 metres of range when you're fully aimed, tested and proven), but you'll hit the tanks you're shooting at the very least.
And they'll hit back. Hard. If they don't spam gol-... special ammo, they'll just pummel through your weakest armor points and eat you up for breakfast. The tank's weakspots kill the thickness' effectiveness, and the gun doesn't let you snipe from even medium range to try and make that distance between you, and the targets you're facing, be a factor in enemies missing your lower frontal plate and the commander's hatch. 

But hey, that means you should never have a game where your team just stomps the enemies and you're trailing behind with a 26 kph top speed, not being able to shoot a single opponent. 
With all this being said, it is:
a) A very good crew trainer for your T28s, T95s, E3s, and similar - while also netting nice credit profits
b) Perfect for kicking puppies who don't know your weakspots, fail horribly at penetrating you, and just sit there getting whittled down rather quickly with the monster DPM the TS-5 boasts.
Kind of reminds me of the pre-buffed (standard model) AT's and the Tortoise, just a worse version be it.
It is practically a worse T28 (as all premium tanks should be, according to Wargaming's policy of premium tanks being worse counter-parts of their fully-upgraded standard opposition)... The only question stands; is that worse actually too worse?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+ Great DPM, can kill tanks surprisingly quickly if they just sit in front of your gun
+ Strong armor provided your enemies don't know your weak spots, can block special ammo without major issues, as well
+ Top speed of 26 kph, at least for me, makes it borderline acceptable to not fall into the "good God this thing is slow" category but just in the "this is tolerably slow"
+ Sounds contradictory, but it has weakspots. Wargaming putting weak spots that are actually weak on premium tanks is a step back in the right direction

- lower frontal plate too hard to hide, and is a huge target that easily gets penned
- awful accuracy means firing from medium-to-far range to negate the weaknesses in the armor is practically impossible
- bad bloom is a no bueno if you want to hit weakspots of enemy vehicles
- shell velocity on AP is lower than on the T28 (860 vs 945), and the HEAT shells as special the TS-5 gets with 3 mm of pen more than the APCR on the T28 fell lackluster. Low velocity, and heat generally hardly pens angled or spaced armor (APCR does a better job, plus travels faster)
- Has a stupid third weak point right above the gun mantle that's 100m raw and 220-240 effective (as shown in a screenshot at this link), and a likewise stupid zero and low armour tiny region on the gun shield itself (as shown here)


Leave feedback on the TS-5, how far you're into the marathon, do you like the vehicle, and if you liked my sum-up of the machine. Take care, lot! 

XxKuzkina_MatxX #2 Posted 10 April 2019 - 05:21 AM

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Congrats on finishing the marathon and enjoy your new toy. Don't dismiss sniping completely and just yolo in because of the accuracy. Be patient and spam shots into the enemy. If attacking means you'll get killed, sniping is a much better alternative.

 

This is a post i wrote about the tank a week ago...

 

http://forum.worldof...8#entry16788548

 

your feedback confirms what to be expected from such design but that's not my issue. My problem is, was it so hard to design something similar to the standard T28, maybe slightly weaker, but still enjoyable???

 

Was it so hard to give it some gun depression? so going hull down is possible considering the bigger and weaker lower plate?

 

What use is 3k DPM will be if the gun is crap? Why do i have to fight the tank instead of the battle?



thetoughcookie #3 Posted 10 April 2019 - 05:33 AM

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Done too. Took the long route "Mission completed! Reward: 
Vehicles added: TS-5 (crew 100%)
Slots added: 1"

wsatnutter #4 Posted 10 April 2019 - 06:49 AM

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Well done to you all 

DeadLecter #5 Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:22 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 April 2019 - 07:51 AM, said:

Congrats on finishing the marathon and enjoy your new toy. Don't dismiss sniping completely and just yolo in because of the accuracy. Be patient and spam shots into the enemy. If attacking means you'll get killed, sniping is a much better alternative.

 

This is a post i wrote about the tank a week ago...

 

http://forum.worldof...8#entry16788548

 

your feedback confirms what to be expected from such design but that's not my issue. My problem is, was it so hard to design something similar to the standard T28, maybe slightly weaker, but still enjoyable???

 

Was it so hard to give it some gun depression? so going hull down is possible considering the bigger and weaker lower plate?

 

What use is 3k DPM will be if the gun is crap? Why do i have to fight the tank instead of the battle?

TS-5 has the same problem as 30B. It only has DPM and falls behind in all other categories. Yesterday I was engaging an IS-6 in my TS-5 and managed to get him to 1 shot range. Then I started aiming for his LFP. Shot him 5 times. Not a single shell hit the lower plate and I was less than 100 meters away. Or when I am about 200 meters away and my reticle covers 99% of the tank and only 1% covers the surroundings. The shells lands on that 1%. Or when I was on Karelia and we were losing the heavy flank, so I went to help, I couldn't get too close, there was no way to hide the LFP, So I stayed up on the hill from about 380~400 meters, The enemy had a Defender,T32 and T8 premium French heavy (non Somua, the other one, I don't remember the name). So I loaded my AP rounds and started shooting. I fired 14 shells and had only 5 hits and only 3 pens. The gun is absolute trash. Kills it for me.

 

T28 is clearly better than TS-5 in everything except upper hull armor, 4 kph top speed and 200 DPM. But it has far better gun and much smaller lower plate. Those 2 make it far better than TS-5.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #6 Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:50 AM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 10 April 2019 - 09:22 AM, said:

TS-5 has the same problem as 30B. It only has DPM and falls behind in all other categories. Yesterday I was engaging an IS-6 in my TS-5 and managed to get him to 1 shot range. Then I started aiming for his LFP. Shot him 5 times. Not a single shell hit the lower plate and I was less than 100 meters away. Or when I am about 200 meters away and my reticle covers 99% of the tank and only 1% covers the surroundings. The shells lands on that 1%. Or when I was on Karelia and we were losing the heavy flank, so I went to help, I couldn't get too close, there was no way to hide the LFP, So I stayed up on the hill from about 380~400 meters, The enemy had a Defender,T32 and T8 premium French heavy (non Somua, the other one, I don't remember the name). So I loaded my AP rounds and started shooting. I fired 14 shells and had only 5 hits and only 3 pens. The gun is absolute trash. Kills it for me.

 

T28 is clearly better than TS-5 in everything except upper hull armor, 4 kph top speed and 200 DPM. But it has far better gun and much smaller lower plate. Those 2 make it far better than TS-5.

 

While i agree with that, the 30B is a standard tech tree tank and one of the many balance problems but you have to willingly grind your way to it. If the tank is bad then you'll probably avoid the line altogether or just grind to a certain good tank and stop there.

 

But why'd WG make an event like this marathon designed to promote the game with such a crappy reward? What's the point of that? To make people hate the game even more after they try their new tier 8 prize? because that's exactly what will happen after suffering through this abysmal game play for 10 days.

 

If you remember the Caernarvon AX marathon, opinions were split about the tank. Some hated the low alpha and the wonky armor and some liked the DPM and a trainer for the british heavies but by no means it was a bad tank. Can't say the same about this one though!


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 10 April 2019 - 08:50 AM.


TungstenHitman #7 Posted 10 April 2019 - 09:01 AM

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And what's this heap of junk worth when it's sold btw? Which is what I'll immediately be doing.(Just wanted the BIA crew)

DeadLecter #8 Posted 10 April 2019 - 09:25 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 April 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

 

While i agree with that, the 30B is a standard tech tree tank and one of the many balance problems but you have to willingly grind your way to it. If the tank is bad then you'll probably avoid the line altogether or just grind to a certain good tank and stop there.

 

But why'd WG make an event like this marathon designed to promote the game with such a crappy reward? What's the point of that? To make people hate the game even more after they try their new tier 8 prize? because that's exactly what will happen after suffering through this abysmal game play for 10 days.

 

If you remember the Caernarvon AX marathon, opinions were split about the tank. Some hated the low alpha and the wonky armor and some liked the DPM and a trainer for the british heavies but by no means it was a bad tank. Can't say the same about this one though!

CAX was just slightly worse than Caernarvon but TS-5 is utter crap compared to T28. So I agree with your point.



111BeoWolf111 #9 Posted 10 April 2019 - 12:49 PM

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Whoa! Thanks for the great feedback, fellow tankers! Likewise, thanks for the kind words for getting the TS-5. I, too, congratulate everyone who finished the marathon so far!

Now, on to the replies;

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 April 2019 - 04:21 AM, said:

Congrats on finishing the marathon and enjoy your new toy. Don't dismiss sniping completely and just yolo in because of the accuracy. Be patient and spam shots into the enemy. If attacking means you'll get killed, sniping is a much better alternative.

 

your feedback confirms what to be expected from such design but that's not my issue. My problem is, was it so hard to design something similar to the standard T28, maybe slightly weaker, but still enjoyable???

 

Was it so hard to give it some gun depression? so going hull down is possible considering the bigger and weaker lower plate?

 

What use is 3k DPM will be if the gun is crap? Why do i have to fight the tank instead of the battle?

 

Exactly my problem - the tank seems like it's neither fun to play, nor fun to play against. In all honesty, if they gave it like 3-5 more degrees of gun depression (just to let you hide that lower plate more easily), this tank would be so much more flexible. And flexible usually means enjoyable. I can just imagine all the positions it could hold that it just cannot right now - the hill on Prokhorovka, valley on Lakeville, 'sniper bush den' at the western flank of the southern base on Murovanka, the hills on Serene coast and Tundra, the monastery road on Abbey...  I get that the gun is designed as unreliable to force you to engage your opponents in close-quarter-combat, but then make the armor more reliable via flexibility to negate it's weaknesses. 
 

View PostDeadLecter, on 10 April 2019 - 07:22 AM, said:

TS-5 has the same problem as 30B. It only has DPM and falls behind in all other categories. Yesterday I was engaging an IS-6 in my TS-5 and managed to get him to 1 shot range. Then I started aiming for his LFP. Shot him 5 times. Not a single shell hit the lower plate and I was less than 100 meters away. Or when I am about 200 meters away and my reticle covers 99% of the tank and only 1% covers the surroundings. The shells lands on that 1%. Or when I was on Karelia and we were losing the heavy flank, so I went to help, I couldn't get too close, there was no way to hide the LFP, So I stayed up on the hill from about 380~400 meters, The enemy had a Defender,T32 and T8 premium French heavy (non Somua, the other one, I don't remember the name). So I loaded my AP rounds and started shooting. I fired 14 shells and had only 5 hits and only 3 pens. The gun is absolute trash. Kills it for me.

 

T28 is clearly better than TS-5 in everything except upper hull armor, 4 kph top speed and 200 DPM. But it has far better gun and much smaller lower plate. Those 2 make it far better than TS-5.

 

This is a great example of what I'm talking about with 'unable to hide your LFP'. It's really difficult to negate the bad aspects of the tank. And sniping is a no-go with it, as well.
P.S, DeadLecter, I suppose you mean the AMX M4 49 (and it's skin Liberte variant)
 

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 April 2019 - 07:50 AM, said:

But why'd WG make an event like this marathon designed to promote the game with such a crappy reward? What's the point of that? To make people hate the game even more after they try their new tier 8 prize? because that's exactly what will happen after suffering through this abysmal game play for 10 days.

 

If you remember the Caernarvon AX marathon, opinions were split about the tank. Some hated the low alpha and the wonky armor and some liked the DPM and a trainer for the british heavies but by no means it was a bad tank. Can't say the same about this one though!

 

While I do not know the exact reasoning behind this concrete marathon, I came to two conclusions: 
1. The marathon was a lot easier because the tank is a lot worse than the previous tanks we had up for grabs. Maybe they gave it out so people without a lot of vehicles in their garage, and no tier VIII premiums could get their hands on, be it a not as good machine, but a credit earner non the less.
2. I don't consider the TS-5 a bad tank. It is worse than it's standard counterpart, it's also no match compared to the Skorpion (G), SU-130PM, and so on, but I think of it as a pre-buffed JT 88 without pref. mm but a decent gun to make up for it. Slow, yet not that well armoured, but can bounce a few shots. Also has great DPM. But, the post-buffed JT 88's speed and a bouncier lower glacis is what makes me enjoy it a lot more than the TS-5, however. 

 

View PostTungstenHitman, on 10 April 2019 - 08:01 AM, said:

And what's this heap of junk worth when it's sold btw? Which is what I'll immediately be doing.(Just wanted the BIA crew)

 

1,960,000 credits. :D 

 

 



PervyPastryPuffer #10 Posted 10 April 2019 - 06:08 PM

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Unfortunately, I have a job and I hope to complete it this weekend, or at least up to an 80% discount. I need a tier 8 US TD crew trainer for my E3/E4...

 

But congratulations nonetheless.

 

I've seen a youtube vid of it in action and it seems to reload pretty quick? I'm completely talking out of my arse here because I don't know if it's quicker than the T28's reload but that might be why it has worse...accuracy? :unsure:



111BeoWolf111 #11 Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:21 PM

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Honestly, even though I am employed, I work night shifts as a security guard, and so I bring my laptop and play world of tanks from like 2AM to 4-5 AM when nobody is around, so I managed. It's quite an easy grind, so I'm sure you'll finish it by Monday 7 AM CEST time. :D

7.02s reload time, the DPM is exactly the same as the JT 8.8 actually. (3,421 damage per minute with BiA, Rammer and Vents). I'd still give out the better dpm for accuracy any day of the week. Useless DPM if you keep bouncing or missing, tbh. 

wEight_Tanker #12 Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:26 PM

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Honestly, I'm glad I didn't waste time and energy on it. I'm happy with my T28 HTC.

jimbobjammybob #13 Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:46 PM

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decided not to play at all during this mengathon. sanity preserved.

111BeoWolf111 #14 Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:50 PM

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I don't know jimbobjammybob, 
I've just played for fun, the tanks i like, in platoons and at work to fight boredom, and the tank kinda just came along by itself. Guess I just play a lot of WoT :D

 



NotRichou #15 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:18 PM

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i love this thing so far but cant judge how it fares agaisnt T28 but the accuracy really hurts often and -1° gundep more would help alot in hiding that LFP but otherwise really fun to play (i did the commitment tasks and cant say i feel cheated or regret doing it since its more often than not a fun tank so far)

vasilinhorulezz #16 Posted 11 April 2019 - 06:33 PM

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It is actually designed as an assault gun should be, bad accuracy to actually force people to play them as they should be played, stop camping the edges of the map in their assault guns and actually move forward and properly brawl.

The amount of T 95s and E3s and *insert tank name here* that hug the red line is too damn high. Make all assault guns like this and encourage people to step up and frikin use that armor.






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