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Map exclusion might actually be a bad idea

Gameplay Deterioration Over Time

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Cobra6 #1 Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:48 AM

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Thinking about the new map exclusion system, and the *extra* map exclusion premium accounts will be able to do got me to conclude the following:

 

I don't like map exclusions at all, while it's annoying for you to spawn on a city map in a light and on an open map in a heavy, for other players it's a blessing. The system evens everything out in the end.

 

Just imagine all the lights excluding city maps and heavies excluding open maps. You'd get Prokh filled with lights so goodbye to spotting damage and city maps filled with only heavy armor which means it ends in a boring camp-fest for everyone.

 

At first map exclusion might seem like a good idea but it will not benefit general gameplay as a whole at all, it will actually make it worse. Sure, for your as a player it will make the maps you play more enjoyable but at the same time it will probably negatively impact your gameplay experience at the same time as your preferred targets probably won't spawn on your maps anymore, or at least spawn less.

 

===

 

Please note I sincerely hope I'm wrong with this and it won't happen, but at the moment I don't see it improving more then it would make worse at the same time.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 10 April 2019 - 10:49 AM.


Richthoffen #2 Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:51 AM

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I welcome the idea.. problem is

I would like to exclude

empires border

ghost town

minsk

stuzianki

paris

ensk.

somehow even with a premium account 2 slots are not enough



divsmo #3 Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:53 AM

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Will be interesting to see how it plays out for sure. Does anyone know if there will be a time limit on how often you can change the maps?

Unless you play nothing but heavy tanks i can't see too many people blacklisting prok and malinovka. But if you can change the blackilsted maps anytime you like it could cause issues such as what you've suggested as you could effectively just continually blacklist the maps that don't suit whatever class you are about to play.

Richthoffen #4 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:01 AM

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I belief its 4 hours between changing the exclusion

 



SirTogII #5 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:08 AM

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I’m with you Cobra, I think it can have a lot of negative consequences. Still, guess we have to see how it pans out. 

XxKuzkina_MatxX #6 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:18 AM

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What's with the half ***** topics? Yesterday it's "i want my own server cause innit!" and "the Merkava looks cool uhaha, let's put it in the game!" and now this!

 

Excluding unfit or unsuitable tanks from the team is a good thing and it's just a single map for F2P accounts and 2 maps for premium users. What's complicated about that?

 

Heavies playing Himmelsdorf want to meet other heavies and presumably use their armor and guns effectively without worrying about arty or hidden TDs.

 

Lights playing Prokhorovka want to outplay other lights in terms of positioning and activity around the map without being spanked by a super heavy for 750 alpha in a corridor.

 

TDs want...inner peace! :)



Geno1isme #7 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:19 AM

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There might be a minor shift in setups, but not that significant. Most people don't just play one vehicle type exclusively even in a single session, and with the 4h cooldown you'll likely just disable the map(s) you generally dislike in all vehicle types rather than shifting back and forth constantly.

 

Also even though people constantly complain that there aren't enough maps, we actually have 30-40 maps available. So even if you block two it's not such a significant reduction in the pool of available maps. Even if say a pure LT player would block Himmelsdorf and Ensk, he'd still have to deal with Ruinberg, Minsk, Empires Border, Paris, Pilsen, Mines, Siegfriedline and possibly Widepark. The chance to actually get Proko or Mali isn't improved much overall.



TungstenHitman #8 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:20 AM

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I don't think map exclusion is the answer. Here's the biggest map problem I see at the moment and I think you guys will probably agree with me, and this is before we split hairs about map designs, which ones are bad, which ones are good, which ones are not balanced etc etc. The point is this, the current MM map rotation SUCKS!

 

At the moment, there's actually a lot of maps in WoT but the problem is we just aren't getting them. Ever session I play, it's the same maps over and over for the entire session and even spawning the same side too in most all cases. For example, yesterday, in 10 battles I got Minsk 3 times, Mines 2 times and Tundra 2 times and Arctic Region 2 times. The pattern continued for the rest of the session and it's been like this for a while now. It's pathetic and I don't think anyone would be bothered by any of the "bad maps" if we had an MM that properly rotated maps. That way, we would only ever see the map we don't like much the odd time instead of seeing 2 or 3 times in 10 battles. We just shouldn't be seeing the same maps so frequently nor spawning the same side ever consecutively. Spawn one side, spawn the other side next time, so hard? I don't think so. And just adjust MM to cycle through all the maps, is it so hard? Problem solved in many ways. 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 10 April 2019 - 11:23 AM.


Jumping_Turtle #9 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:37 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 10 April 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

 

At the moment, there's actually a lot of maps in WoT but the problem is we just aren't getting them. Ever session I play, it's the same maps over and over for the entire session and even spawning the same side too in most all cases. For example, yesterday, in 10 battles I got Minsk 3 times, Mines 2 times and Tundra 2 times and Arctic Region 2 times. The pattern continued for the rest of the session and it's been like this for a while now. It's pathetic and I don't think anyone would be bothered by any of the "bad maps" if we had an MM that properly rotated maps. That way, we would only ever see the map we don't like much the odd time instead of seeing 2 or 3 times in 10 battles. We just shouldn't be seeing the same maps so frequently nor spawning the same side ever consecutively. Spawn one side, spawn the other side next time, so hard? I don't think so. And just adjust MM to cycle through all the maps, is it so hard? Problem solved in many ways. 

 

Very much this!



Richthoffen #10 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:38 AM

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yes a beter rotation would help also. and spawning on the other side now and then, it no feels like i spawn on the same side for days and then an other string of days its the other side again and again.

but cycling all maps has the danger of creating a patern that can allow people to adjust theire tank accordingly



tajj7 #11 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:38 AM

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Your theory is relying on a massive presumption that most players will use this feature and considering most players barely use their mini-map or know how to increase it, and allegedly over half the playerbase has never opened the options menu, that is looking like shaky ground to base a theory on.

 

I just can't see a significant amount of players using this feature, and then when you add its only 1 or 2 maps, the overall impact on gameplay is going to be insignificant, especially if you then add that for example heavies are so popular that the chances are that there are going to be plenty of heavy players who don't use this feature and still end up on Prohk. 



Signal11th #12 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:53 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 10 April 2019 - 10:38 AM, said:

Your theory is relying on a massive presumption that most players will use this feature and considering most players barely use their mini-map or know how to increase it, and allegedly over half the playerbase has never opened the options menu, that is looking like shaky ground to base a theory on.

 

I just can't see a significant amount of players using this feature, and then when you add its only 1 or 2 maps, the overall impact on gameplay is going to be insignificant, especially if you then add that for example heavies are so popular that the chances are that there are going to be plenty of heavy players who don't use this feature and still end up on Prohk. 

 

Pretty much this, there seems to be the false assumption that the majority of players in WOT actually visit the forums visit the website etc when plainly they don't, you will probably get 10% of the player base using this feature at most. I can't wait no more Ensk no more Ghost Town...

Edited by Signal11th, 10 April 2019 - 11:53 AM.


Rati_Festa #13 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:59 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 10 April 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

Thinking about the new map exclusion system, and the *extra* map exclusion premium accounts will be able to do got me to conclude the following:

 

I don't like map exclusions at all, while it's annoying for you to spawn on a city map in a light and on an open map in a heavy, for other players it's a blessing. The system evens everything out in the end.

 

Just imagine all the lights excluding city maps and heavies excluding open maps. You'd get Prokh filled with lights so goodbye to spotting damage and city maps filled with only heavy armor which means it ends in a boring camp-fest for everyone.

 

At first map exclusion might seem like a good idea but it will not benefit general gameplay as a whole at all, it will actually make it worse. Sure, for your as a player it will make the maps you play more enjoyable but at the same time it will probably negatively impact your gameplay experience at the same time as your preferred targets probably won't spawn on your maps anymore, or at least spawn less.

 

===

 

Please note I sincerely hope I'm wrong with this and it won't happen, but at the moment I don't see it improving more then it would make worse at the same time.

 

Cobra 6

 

I thought something similar myself, its quite obvious that if you are going to play your Type5 for a session you drop out the wide open maps. It will realistically start to influence wn8, pr and wr in general as if you can avoid your "bad" maps then you are artifically improving your stats against a player who doesn't use it. So a you highlighted it will change the overall meta of the game, I'm not against or for that, I just wonder if WG have considered what the longterm consequences will be.

 

A lot of players focus on improving stats as a means of enjoyment of this game ( I do to a small extent ) but this change to the game is warping what these stats actually mean as they can be modified by clever map choice. Its just further highlights skill in your garage ( ie crew perks, equipment, tank choice ;) can influence stats as well as pure hand to eye coordination and map awareness. My main concern with the introduction to this functionality is if WG uses it as a rebuff against constant complaints about bad maps... they can now say use the map opt out function as a first answer. Rather than looking at the true problem, bad map design.



PHPer #14 Posted 10 April 2019 - 12:00 PM

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This change will make 3 artys on Malinovka 100% garantied

SuperOlsson #15 Posted 10 April 2019 - 12:00 PM

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I think we might notice it slightly on prokhorovka but not on citymaps. I'd say there are too many maps with citylike brawling points to notice anything with a maximum of 2 blacklisted maps per player. Oh and probably a little less arty on himmelsdorf as well.

Rati_Festa #16 Posted 10 April 2019 - 12:01 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 10 April 2019 - 11:38 AM, said:

Your theory is relying on a massive presumption that most players will use this feature and considering most players barely use their mini-map or know how to increase it, and allegedly over half the playerbase has never opened the options menu, that is looking like shaky ground to base a theory on.

 

I just can't see a significant amount of players using this feature, and then when you add its only 1 or 2 maps, the overall impact on gameplay is going to be insignificant, especially if you then add that for example heavies are so popular that the chances are that there are going to be plenty of heavy players who don't use this feature and still end up on Prohk. 

 

Won't they advertise it though in the garage, especially if the additional map choice is included in a prem package?

Slyspy #17 Posted 10 April 2019 - 12:05 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 April 2019 - 11:18 AM, said:

What's with the half ***** topics? Yesterday it's "i want my own server cause innit!" and "the Merkava looks cool uhaha, let's put it in the game!" and now this!

 

Excluding unfit or unsuitable tanks from the team is a good thing and it's just a single map for F2P accounts and 2 maps for premium users. What's complicated about that?

 

Heavies playing Himmelsdorf want to meet other heavies and presumably use their armor and guns effectively without worrying about arty or hidden TDs.

 

Lights playing Prokhorovka want to outplay other lights in terms of positioning and activity around the map without being spanked by a super heavy for 750 alpha in a corridor.

 

TDs want...inner peace! :)

 

Except they don't, not really. Those heavies want someone to smack around in corridors using their superior armour and alpha. They want to catch those arties and TDs on their own terms rather than getting plinked at a distance. Likewise those lights want big fat juicy targets for them to spot, somewhere in the open so that their campers can bash them around. Now granted with only one or two exclusions per player and with most players playing a selection of tank types it may well be an insignificant change overall but I can easily see how this idea could be detrimental to the game in theory at least. It has to be said, as well, that WG rarely seem to think about the long term or wider reaching impact of their changes (or if they do they are happy to take the plunge regardless). 

albert1999 #18 Posted 10 April 2019 - 12:15 PM

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Imagine having scouts to include for example Prohorovka, how many scouts would be then there? And how many heavy/meds/TDs? It will be swarm.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #19 Posted 10 April 2019 - 12:15 PM

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View PostSlyspy, on 10 April 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

 

Except they don't, not really. Those heavies want someone to smack around in corridors using their superior armour and alpha. They want to catch those arties and TDs on their own terms rather than getting plinked at a distance. Likewise those lights want big fat juicy targets for them to spot, somewhere in the open so that their campers can bash them around. Now granted with only one or two exclusions per player and with most players playing a selection of tank types it may well be an insignificant change overall but I can easily see how this idea could be detrimental to the game in theory at least. It has to be said, as well, that WG rarely seem to think about the long term or wider reaching impact of their changes (or if they do they are happy to take the plunge regardless). 

 

Really? Is that why all the biggest heavies choose the most confined spaces of any map to go to? To find those pesky mediums and TDs?

 

Is that why the beach and the valley is a thing?

 

 


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 10 April 2019 - 01:12 PM.


tajj7 #20 Posted 10 April 2019 - 12:16 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 10 April 2019 - 11:01 AM, said:

 

Won't they advertise it though in the garage, especially if the additional map choice is included in a prem package?

 

They might occasionally but who really looks at those things. 

 

I mean come on most players knowledge about the game is pretty minimal, we have players who use like camo nets on heavies, that go into games with no ammo, that only fire HE, that don't go into the options, that don't ever play any other modes but randoms, that go beach on overlord etc etc.

 

Can you really see lots of players tailoring their 1 or 2 map blacklist choices to the tanks they are going to play and then changing it every 4 hours and then remembering to play the right tanks to match their choices? 

 

Hell I doubt even most switched on players will remember, if you are just platooning and not particularly grinding or anything I tend to chose lots of different tanks. 

 

It is IMO a level of planning and thinking that 90% of the playerbase display, on a daily basis, that they don't have the ability to do. 


Edited by tajj7, 10 April 2019 - 12:18 PM.






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