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Map exclusion might actually be a bad idea

Gameplay Deterioration Over Time

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HaZardeur #41 Posted 10 April 2019 - 02:32 PM

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View PostJumping_Turtle, on 10 April 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

 

Doesnt work like that. Only the maps excluded by the platoon commander are valid.

 

That was my initial thought on that as well but then suddenly WG came to my mind :P

250swb #42 Posted 10 April 2019 - 02:46 PM

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View PostSignal11th, on 10 April 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

 

....... I can't wait no more Ensk no more Ghost Town...

 

Agreed, except for the obvious anomaly that will confront many players. Ensk, Ghost Town, and Himmelsdorf or any other future city map will be the maps with a guaranteed reduction in arty when all the Premium account arty players avoid them, this will force arty onto the more popular maps for open game play. Which means the city maps will be the ones to play if a players wants the least amount of arty. Tough choice.



Slyspy #43 Posted 10 April 2019 - 03:23 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 April 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

 

Really? Is that why all the biggest heavies choose the most confined spaces of any map to go to? To find those pesky mediums and TDs?

 

Is that why the beach and the valley is a thing?

 

 

 

They do that because that is playing to their strengths and minimising their vulnerabilities. Not because they want an honourable duel with their opposite number but because it represents the least risk of exposure. 

8126Jakobsson #44 Posted 10 April 2019 - 03:39 PM

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View PostOIias_of_Sunhillow, on 10 April 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

Should a large enough portion of the player base start excluding the same maps, will that encourage WG to either remove that particular map, or maps, or rework them ?

The reason I ask, is that it's the same 2-3 maps that are mentioned as problematic.

 

This is the good aspect with this feature. Can't get such exact and broad feedback by browsing forum tears. I don't have high thoughts of the map guys though so it probably doesn't matter anyway. :P

XxKuzkina_MatxX #45 Posted 10 April 2019 - 03:43 PM

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View PostSlyspy, on 10 April 2019 - 04:23 PM, said:

 

They do that because that is playing to their strengths and minimising their vulnerabilities. Not because they want an honourable duel with their opposite number but because it represents the least risk of exposure. 

 

That's definitely one of the silliest things i've ever read on these forums and it shows either a very limited understanding of how the a battle is usually played or just some useless fiddling!

 

You just assumed something irrelevant to the discussion and drew an even more irrelevant conclusion out of it. Heavies go to the banana on Himmelsdorf to "catch those TDs and arty on their own terms"? so heavies go where there aren't any TDs or arty, and there are only armored tanks, to fight a class that doesn't go there???

 

How about you stop with the nonsense and write something coherent and useful for once?


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 10 April 2019 - 04:00 PM.


vasilinhorulezz #46 Posted 10 April 2019 - 03:45 PM

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It depends of how many maps you can exclude, if it's one or two maps at most, it might not really be a big problem.

Also, for people that trying specific missions, it really could be a decent tool, to actually have more chances to get maps that said missions can be done.

Still if I can never see south spawn on Mines encounter again in my life, I welcome this change wholeheartedly.



Objec7 #47 Posted 10 April 2019 - 03:46 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 10 April 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

Thinking about the new map exclusion system, and the *extra* map exclusion premium accounts will be able to do got me to conclude the following:

 

I don't like map exclusions at all, while it's annoying for you to spawn on a city map in a light and on an open map in a heavy, for other players it's a blessing. The system evens everything out in the end.

 

Just imagine all the lights excluding city maps and heavies excluding open maps. You'd get Prokh filled with lights so goodbye to spotting damage and city maps filled with only heavy armor which means it ends in a boring camp-fest for everyone.

 

At first map exclusion might seem like a good idea but it will not benefit general gameplay as a whole at all, it will actually make it worse. Sure, for your as a player it will make the maps you play more enjoyable but at the same time it will probably negatively impact your gameplay experience at the same time as your preferred targets probably won't spawn on your maps anymore, or at least spawn less.

 

===

 

Please note I sincerely hope I'm wrong with this and it won't happen, but at the moment I don't see it improving more then it would make worse at the same time.

 

Cobra 6

 

I agree especially with the additional map remove spot.

 

Perhaps WG could allow us to vote maps(1-5 star) so they can see which of the maps are the most disliked and do changes based on that.


Edited by Objec7, 10 April 2019 - 03:48 PM.


Slyspy #48 Posted 10 April 2019 - 04:00 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 April 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

 

That's definitely one of the silliest things i've ever read on these forums and it shows either a very limited understanding of how the a battle is usually played or just some useless fiddling!

 

You just assumed something irrelevant to the discussion and draw an even more irrelevant conclusion out of it. Heavies go to the banana on Himmelsdorf to "catch those TDs and arty on their own terms"? so heavies go where there aren't any TDs or arty, and there only armored tanks, to fight a class that doesn't go there???

 

How about you stop with the nonsense and write something coherent and useful for once?

 

You should perhaps reflect on the relevance of your own posts. Why are you talking about the banana road on Himmelsdorf, for example, when this discussion is about maps as whole entities? Unless you dispute the idea that some maps are more suited for a particular type of vehicle than they are for others?



Homer_J #49 Posted 10 April 2019 - 04:02 PM

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View Postxx984, on 10 April 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

People rarely, atleast from who i talk to play the same class for the whole day. 

 

That could be another unintended consequence.  If you've excluded Prok because you were playing heavies you are unlikely to switch to lights.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #50 Posted 10 April 2019 - 04:03 PM

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View PostSlyspy, on 10 April 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:

You should perhaps reflect on the relevance of your own posts. Why are you talking about the banana road on Himmelsdorf, for example, when this discussion is about maps as whole entities? Unless you dispute the idea that some maps are more suited for a particular type of vehicle than they are for others?

 

My reply is to this....

 

View PostSlyspy, on 10 April 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

Except they don't, not really. Those heavies want someone to smack around in corridors using their superior armour and alpha. They want to catch those arties and TDs on their own terms rather than getting plinked at a distance.

 

What does that even mean?



Cobra6 #51 Posted 10 April 2019 - 04:04 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 10 April 2019 - 01:14 PM, said:

 

You write a lot of sense.  I agree with it all except the last bit.  Personally I don't think it will have any effect.

There are about 40 maps (http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Maps ;) - Yes it's surprising that it's so many; and so being able to exclude 2 is still only 5%.

 

A you pointed out, most of the contentious maps are good for some classes at the expense of being bad for others.

 

Well, the thing is they didn't yet specify if you can exclude 1-2 maps from the *total map pool* OR 1-2 maps from the *running mini-map pool* that each server runs.

 

Lets say for example a mini map pool is 6 maps per server, excluding one would mean a pretty massive advantage already and excluding 2 in case of premium accounts would mean you don't play 1/3 of the map running on the server.

 

Cobra 6



albert1999 #52 Posted 10 April 2019 - 04:49 PM

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Imagine people block off Malinovka/Prohorovka for example, only scouts would be there, no Heavies for example.

TungstenHitman #53 Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:04 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 10 April 2019 - 12:46 PM, said:

 

Server 1 and Server 2 have different maps in rotation as both draw from their own "mini map pool", so if you get terrible maps on Server 1, just switch to Server 2 and see if the map pool on that one is better.

That is quite a workable solution at the moment.

 

I remember in the past it being stated that these "mini map pools" are there because of memory constraints so each server gets a smaller selection of maps for a specific time and after that time has passed, this map selection is switched.

Both servers run different selections so switching server will get you different maps in most situations.

 

Cobra 6

 

Interesting

LCpl_Jones #54 Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:12 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 10 April 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

Thinking about the new map exclusion system, and the *extra* map exclusion premium accounts will be able to do got me to conclude the following:

 

I don't like map exclusions at all, while it's annoying for you to spawn on a city map in a light and on an open map in a heavy, for other players it's a blessing. The system evens everything out in the end.

 

Just imagine all the lights excluding city maps and heavies excluding open maps. You'd get Prokh filled with lights so goodbye to spotting damage and city maps filled with only heavy armor which means it ends in a boring camp-fest for everyone.

 

At first map exclusion might seem like a good idea but it will not benefit general gameplay as a whole at all, it will actually make it worse. Sure, for your as a player it will make the maps you play more enjoyable but at the same time it will probably negatively impact your gameplay experience at the same time as your preferred targets probably won't spawn on your maps anymore, or at least spawn less.

 

===

 

Please note I sincerely hope I'm wrong with this and it won't happen, but at the moment I don't see it improving more then it would make worse at the same time.

 

Cobra 6

 

i agree, seems a pointless waste of resources that ultimately does nothing to improve gameplay.

 

i suspect open maps will have proportionally more arta then they do now and city maps more armour, yay, fun fun fun

 



wEight_Tanker #55 Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:18 PM

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I welcome the idea with open arms, however I would like PA having nothing to do with it also 3 maps to exclude should be minimum and a cooldown for like 4 weeks or something between filling a list with an excluded map.

Dorander #56 Posted 10 April 2019 - 07:29 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 10 April 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

 

Well, the thing is they didn't yet specify if you can exclude 1-2 maps from the *total map pool* OR 1-2 maps from the *running mini-map pool* that each server runs.

 

Lets say for example a mini map pool is 6 maps per server, excluding one would mean a pretty massive advantage already and excluding 2 in case of premium accounts would mean you don't play 1/3 of the map running on the server.

 

Cobra 6

 

The map blacklist has a four hour cooldown. The map pool per server rotates maps a lot faster than that, even without knowing how fast it is, within a four hour session you'll see far more than 6 maps. It's improbable that it'll work on the map pool for two simple reasons: first, we don't have accurate information on how the rotation works so that's not something to base a choice on, and second, if you picked one of the maps in the rotation that map would just be rotated out nullifying your choice which doesn't make much sense to design a feature around.

 

Similarly some claims about seeing swarms of lights or arty on open maps and only heavies on citymaps don't make sense. As someone else stated, most people don't play only one tank type per four hour session. We're told we get a blacklist, not a blacklist per tank type, so that's 2 maps total (out of apparently 40 that exist). It's not a whitelist, so we can't force getting Prokhorovka or Malinovka whenever we play a light or arty or whatever.

 

This entire thread sounds like a lot of panic over nothing. In all probability people will base their blacklist choices on maps they feel are extremely unenjoyable no matter what they play.



Yakito #57 Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:34 PM

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There is a good chance that if a specific map is being ignored by a majority then it will make WG take a good look at it and possibly fix it. Like a voting system for rework.
I welcome the idea.

Slyspy #58 Posted 10 April 2019 - 08:48 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 10 April 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

My reply is to this....

 

 

What does that even mean?

 

That heavy tanks have the advantage in closed maps whereas the lights, TDs and arty of this world generally do not and that players know this. It isn't rocket science, try to keep up. 

stokerel #59 Posted 10 April 2019 - 09:12 PM

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I agree, this whole idea of black-listing maps is silly and the actual consequences on gameplay experience, MM and player stats are hard to predict. Let's be real, it took WG 6 months to nerf the bobject so how long will they be "collecting stats" after this mess?

 

About stats, this suddenly creates a huge difference between players blacklisting different maps and also WoT PA owners who can blacklist two maps. Padding WN8 with light tanks will get much easier now, being able to block Himmelsdorf and Ensk for example.

 

What about vehicle balance on all maps? Are we going to get Prok full of Skorpions and SPG's? What about 30 Maus's on Himmelsdorf?

 

As already suggested, why not simply improve the map rotation with the currently available maps?

 

Using this feature instead of a survey is just as silly and pointless. Different people have different map preferences, just as they have different vehicle preferences at different times. Players don't consider maps bad for any other reasons than balance and size. Get that fixed and you won't need to implement blacklists. 

 



N00BT00B #60 Posted 10 April 2019 - 09:46 PM

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Yeah, blackilisting a map is a bad idea.

 

What this game needs is votemap (like cod) or the ability to select a tank to suit a particular map.

 

who gives a crapif its 15 v 15 defenders or 15 v 15 wheeled a55holes? As long as people are having fun?

 

seems like the recent throwback to the old game setup(which I wasn't around to play) had 20 arties per game.







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