Jump to content


Map exclusion might actually be a bad idea

Gameplay Deterioration Over Time

  • Please log in to reply
75 replies to this topic

1ncompetenc3 #61 Posted 10 April 2019 - 09:47 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 38062 battles
  • 11,986
  • Member since:
    03-18-2013

View PostCobra6, on 10 April 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

Thinking about the new map exclusion system, and the *extra* map exclusion premium accounts will be able to do got me to conclude the following:

 

I don't like map exclusions at all, while it's annoying for you to spawn on a city map in a light and on an open map in a heavy, for other players it's a blessing. The system evens everything out in the end.

 

Just imagine all the lights excluding city maps and heavies excluding open maps. You'd get Prokh filled with lights so goodbye to spotting damage and city maps filled with only heavy armor which means it ends in a boring camp-fest for everyone.

 

At first map exclusion might seem like a good idea but it will not benefit general gameplay as a whole at all, it will actually make it worse. Sure, for your as a player it will make the maps you play more enjoyable but at the same time it will probably negatively impact your gameplay experience at the same time as your preferred targets probably won't spawn on your maps anymore, or at least spawn less.

 

===

 

Please note I sincerely hope I'm wrong with this and it won't happen, but at the moment I don't see it improving more then it would make worse at the same time.

 

Cobra 6

 

It's not about avoiding a specific type of map when you're playing a specific type of vehicle; you can only exclude one anyway (two with premium account). It's about saying goodbye to a map that's the antithesis of fun regardless of which vehicle type or tier you're playing. In other words, this is about excluding Paris.

Homer_J #62 Posted 10 April 2019 - 09:48 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31398 battles
  • 34,135
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostCobra6, on 10 April 2019 - 04:04 PM, said:

 

Well, the thing is they didn't yet specify if you can exclude 1-2 maps from the *total map pool* OR 1-2 maps from the *running mini-map pool* that each server runs.

 

Lets say for example a mini map pool is 6 maps per server, excluding one would mean a pretty massive advantage already and excluding 2 in case of premium accounts would mean you don't play 1/3 of the map running on the server.

 

Cobra 6

 

They said 1-2 maps.  There is no indication that they are going to tell us what the current server pool is and from the last info we had it changes the pool a lot more frequently than every 4 hours.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #63 Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:52 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 53201 battles
  • 3,718
  • [OBY] OBY
  • Member since:
    04-02-2016

View PostSlyspy, on 10 April 2019 - 09:48 PM, said:

drivel

 

What are you babbling about?

 

As much as heavies have an advantage in city maps, lights, TDs and arty have an advantage in open maps. Is that so hard a concept to grasp?

 

The efficiency of certain classes changes based on map features and design, excluding a map from the rotation makes the team's composition more suitable for the map. Supposedly that should make battles a little bit better for everyone.

 

Heavies have sub classes with some have little armor to brawl in city maps. Some lights have good guns, even autoloaders and can do damage effectively. Not all TDs are made of cardboard, some are actually heavies with a different tag. Mind blowing, right? 

 

And what's that got to do with the psychology of a heavy tank, "catch those arties and TDs on their own terms" or "Not because they want an honorable duel with their opposite number"???

 

You didn't think this through, did you?


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 11 April 2019 - 12:58 AM.


Bucifel #64 Posted 10 April 2019 - 10:55 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 34701 battles
  • 1,600
  • [QUIET] QUIET
  • Member since:
    03-18-2013

View PostCobra6, on 10 April 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

Thinking about the new map exclusion system, and the *extra* map exclusion premium accounts will be able to do got me to conclude the following:

 

I don't like map exclusions at all, while it's annoying for you to spawn on a city map in a light and on an open map in a heavy, for other players it's a blessing. The system evens everything out in the end.

 

Just imagine all the lights excluding city maps and heavies excluding open maps. You'd get Prokh filled with lights so goodbye to spotting damage and city maps filled with only heavy armor which means it ends in a boring camp-fest for everyone.

 

At first map exclusion might seem like a good idea but it will not benefit general gameplay as a whole at all, it will actually make it worse. Sure, for your as a player it will make the maps you play more enjoyable but at the same time it will probably negatively impact your gameplay experience at the same time as your preferred targets probably won't spawn on your maps anymore, or at least spawn less.

 

===

 

Please note I sincerely hope I'm wrong with this and it won't happen, but at the moment I don't see it improving more then it would make worse at the same time.

 

Cobra 6

 

i think that can be solved quite easy...

 

they just need to make this option once per account or once in a while...3 months, 6...etc

so you are not able to change your bans according to what you play in each battle :) you really must choose your most hated maps

 

with this, WG idea will work how its suposed and MM wont be so screwed with open maps without heavys and citys without LTs...

 

easy fix

make this option available only once in a while (3 or 6 months cooldown)...so players will choose wisely and the true hated map, not just what they dont like in their next game.


Edited by Bucifel, 11 April 2019 - 12:34 AM.


WojtekTheBear #65 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:21 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 28228 battles
  • 83
  • Member since:
    01-28-2016
Someone already said that but I will reiterate. The blacklisting feature doesn't aim at allowing players to play heavies only on Himmelsdorf or lights on Prokhorovka. The goal of this feature is to enable players not to play on a map that they dislike the most. This in no way will let you play only on city maps or only on open maps. You will still have the variety of the maps, some of them more open than others, but at least you won't have to play on this very one that you hate. And with enough feedback WG will be able to see which maps need work.

Bucifel #66 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:08 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 34701 battles
  • 1,600
  • [QUIET] QUIET
  • Member since:
    03-18-2013

View PostWojtekTheBear, on 10 April 2019 - 11:21 PM, said:

Someone already said that but I will reiterate. The blacklisting feature doesn't aim at allowing players to play heavies only on Himmelsdorf or lights on Prokhorovka. The goal of this feature is to enable players not to play on a map that they dislike the most. This in no way will let you play only on city maps or only on open maps. You will still have the variety of the maps, some of them more open than others, but at least you won't have to play on this very one that you hate. And with enough feedback WG will be able to see which maps need work.

 

thats the goal...but if theres no restriction to use this option nothing will stop me to simply switch "hated" maps according to what i play

 

so of course i will ban Prohorovka when i play a big slow tank and of course i will switch to ban Ensk when i play with a LT

so without restriction is not only about "the most hated map"..its about "the worst match for what you play" :)

 

they must implement it correct if they want to be used in the right way



Alabamatick #67 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:29 AM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 31849 battles
  • 3,309
  • Member since:
    04-11-2011

View PostYakito, on 10 April 2019 - 07:34 PM, said:

There is a good chance that if a specific map is being ignored by a majority then it will make WG take a good look at it and possibly fix it. Like a voting system for rework.
I welcome the idea.

 

With all bobs and steves blocking Prok, then that doesn't seem such a good idea after all

seXikanac #68 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:31 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 13168 battles
  • 1,050
  • [-YU-] -YU-
  • Member since:
    09-27-2012

View PostRichthoffen, on 10 April 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

I welcome the idea.. problem is

I would like to exclude

empires border

ghost town

minsk

stuzianki

paris

ensk.

somehow even with a premium account 2 slots are not enough

 

All nice maps

DangerMouse #69 Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:07 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Beta Tester
  • 28359 battles
  • 1,028
  • [FLOG] FLOG
  • Member since:
    10-28-2010
If every time I spawn in on Prok there are 5 lights per side then the feature has broke the game balance and needs to be re-thought or disabled.

7thSyndicate #70 Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:37 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 45402 battles
  • 388
  • Member since:
    10-09-2012
yeah its a bad idea, we can only block one. 

Homer_J #71 Posted 11 April 2019 - 03:25 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31398 battles
  • 34,135
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostBucifel, on 11 April 2019 - 12:08 AM, said:

 

thats the goal...but if theres no restriction to use this option nothing will stop me to simply switch "hated" maps according to what i play

 

so of course i will ban Prohorovka when i play a big slow tank and of course i will switch to ban Ensk when i play with a LT

so without restriction is not only about "the most hated map"..its about "the worst match for what you play" :)

 

they must implement it correct if they want to be used in the right way

But the restriction is that once you make a choice you are stuck with it for four hours.  Fine if you play heavies for four hours then switch to lights but I doubt many people plan their day like that.



vp56 #72 Posted 11 April 2019 - 05:07 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 3424 battles
  • 149
  • [-UM] -UM
  • Member since:
    01-10-2013

I think it's a fantastic feature. I for one will blacklist the maps I generally hate the most and I expect most players to behave the same way. For me how good a map is doesn't depend on what I am playing. Mines is not going to turn good out of a sudden just because I play tank X or Y. Pilsen doesn't become a good map when I happen to roll it as top tier heavy. I've never understood the erratic people who change their opinion based on each different instance without seeing the big picture. It's the same as the players who believe that I shouldn't hate arty as a mechanic because I have friendly arties too who once in a blue moon prove useful. Instead I should hate the enemy arty players and not think sky [edited] is a bad mechanic!

 

My prediction is that players will use this feature emotionally once or twice after having a few bad battles on a given map and never touch it again, with the same maps remaining as their picks forever.

 

As the picks go, for me Ghost Town and Mines are going. They both are terrible campfests and exist across multiple game modes(Mines is Standard/Encounter and Ghost Town is Standard/Encounter/Assault). These selections will not only remove it from the Standard queue but they also make me get more of my favorite maps that are all the other assault maps(barring Erlenberg, I guess). I would also like to see Cliff, Pilsen and Prokhorovka go but I'm limited to two. I won't even consider Paris in the calculations. It's not a great map but it has much more playability than many other maps and it only exists in one game mode.

 

Another important concept that people don't seem to understand here is "blocking". I don't mean the map blocking here but that your selections will segregate you from certain player types and you effectively slightly reduce the number of certain player types in your queue. When you go super smart and pick Ensk and Paris "cuz u hate corridors" you are doing exactly the same as every arty/TD bot in the game who will make the same picks which puts you into the same group as them. This means you will see more of these TD/arty bots in each battle. Conversely if you blacklist the maps that the arty/TD bots don't, you will see a slightly reduced number of the players who prefer to sit in base and bot on these two classes.

 

Furthermore if you play all 3 game modes like I do, you gain extra value from picking. If memory serves the matchmaker works something like this:

1) You have Standard enabled - you get Standard 100% of the time.

2) You have Standard + Encounter enabled - you get Standard 80% of the time and Encounter 20% of the time.

3) You have Standard + Encounter + Assault enabled - you get Standard 60% of the time, Encounter 20% of the time and Assault 20% of the time.

 

I am not sure if the 20% of Encounter and Assault cannibalize each other but I believe not. However if someone has more information about the matter please let me know. Either way the point remains having multiple game modes on and blocking maps that have multiple versions versions effectively gives you more blocks.

 

This example will not be 100% accurate since I don't remember the exact map counts but it's something like 30 Standard maps, 15 Encounter maps and 5 Assault maps. Ghost Town appears in each three. In Standard if we assume there are 30 maps, blocking a map while only having Standard enabled gives you, I'm going to call it "blocking value" of 3.33%. In simple English this means that for a Standard only player blocking a map gives them 3.33% control over their map rotation.

 

Standard player blacklisting any map:

3.33% blocking value.

 

Standard + Encounter player blacklisting a map that appears in both game modes(such as Mines or Ensk):

(3.33*80/100)+(6.66*20/100)=3.996% blocking value.

 

Standard + Assault player blacklisting a map that appears in both game modes(any assault map):

(3.33*80/100)+(20*20/100)=6.664% blocking value.

 

Standard + Encounter + Assault player blacklisting a map that appears in each game mode(Siegfried Line, Ghost Town, Empire's Border):

(3.33*60/100)+(20*20/100)+(6.66*20/100)=7.33% blocking value.

 

The equation suffers somewhat from the flaw I pointed out above that I am not fully sure if assault and encounter cannibalize each other. However again the point remains that having more game modes enabled unquestionably gives you more blocking value and especially blocking a map that appears in Assault mode has a massive impact because of the low count of Assault maps.

 

tl;dr: If you have Assault(6.664%) or all three game modes(7.33%) enabled and you blacklist maps that appear on several game modes, your blacklisting selection has far more influence over your map rotation than if you are a Standard only(3.33%) player. Remember these numbers are only for one selection and if you have the upcoming double premium you get two selections, which allows you to get much more value.


Edited by vp56, 11 April 2019 - 06:23 AM.


The_Mad_Tank #73 Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:52 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 764 battles
  • 152
  • [OCUK] OCUK
  • Member since:
    07-09-2015
It's not a bad idea, I can block Province and Prokorovka (the latter would be a good map with a competent team, but this is World of Tanks).

CmdRatScabies #74 Posted 11 April 2019 - 06:10 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 38475 battles
  • 4,771
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    10-12-2015

View Postvp56, on 11 April 2019 - 05:07 AM, said:

The equation suffers somewhat from the flaw I pointed out above that I am not fully sure if assault and encounter cannibalize each other. However again the point remains that having more game modes enabled unquestionably gives you more blocking value and especially blocking a map that appears in Assault mode has a massive impact because of the low count of Assault maps.

 

tl;dr: If you have Assault(6.664%) or all three game modes(7.33%) enabled and you blacklist maps that appear on several game modes, your blacklisting selection has far more influence over your map rotation than if you are a Standard only(3.33%) player. Remember these numbers are only for one selection and if you have the upcoming double premium you get two selections, which allows you to get much more value.

 

I thought you could only block maps for Standard mode?  For Assault & Encounter you have to block the mode not the map.

Dorander #75 Posted 11 April 2019 - 06:46 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 20349 battles
  • 4,749
  • Member since:
    05-07-2012

View Postvp56, on 11 April 2019 - 04:07 AM, said:

<snipped explanation>

 

By this reasoning, turning off encounter and assault modes give the best blocking value in total. :great:

17:47 Added after 0 minutes

View PostCmdRatScabies, on 11 April 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

 

I thought you could only block maps for Standard mode?  For Assault & Encounter you have to block the mode not the map.

 

This is correct, from the source: "The Excluded Maps feature will only be available for Standard Battles, and not for Assault or Encounter Battles."

 

https://worldoftanks...-excluded-maps/



Bordhaw #76 Posted 11 April 2019 - 07:48 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 13572 battles
  • 3,849
  • Member since:
    01-29-2017

View PostCobra6, on 10 April 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

Thinking about the new map exclusion system, and the *extra* map exclusion premium accounts will be able to do got me to conclude the following:

 

I don't like map exclusions at all, while it's annoying for you to spawn on a city map in a light and on an open map in a heavy, for other players it's a blessing. The system evens everything out in the end.

 

Just imagine all the lights excluding city maps and heavies excluding open maps. You'd get Prokh filled with lights so goodbye to spotting damage and city maps filled with only heavy armor which means it ends in a boring camp-fest for everyone.

 

At first map exclusion might seem like a good idea but it will not benefit general gameplay as a whole at all, it will actually make it worse. Sure, for your as a player it will make the maps you play more enjoyable but at the same time it will probably negatively impact your gameplay experience at the same time as your preferred targets probably won't spawn on your maps anymore, or at least spawn less.

 

===

 

Please note I sincerely hope I'm wrong with this and it won't happen, but at the moment I don't see it improving more then it would make worse at the same time.

 

Cobra 6

 

 







Also tagged with Gameplay, Deterioration, Over, Time

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users