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Are there AI player in WOT?

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shamelbazoqa #1 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:24 PM

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it seams everyone is complaining that they are almost all the time matched against higher tier tanks, but that is not possible! if we are all paying against higher tier, then who is playing against lower tier? it only makes sense that the two number are the same, because for every player playing against a higher tier, there is a player playing against a lower tier... right? of course right! it's basic logic.

"but Shamel, i know for sure im always being matched against higher tier, and few games against same tier, and even fewer against lower tier" when there is a contradiction between basic logic and statistics, there has to be an explanation...

so thinking out loud here:

the only explanation i could come up with, is that players are divided into two categories (or more) and each category is being matched differently, for example:
1. if a player did not play for a long time, they give him a few easy games when he comes back to have him play more. is it doable? i guess.
2. some players have special privileges, like if i created the game i can give myself special match making where i always end up playing against tanks 2 tiers lower than me, doable? very much so.
3. if i can give myself such privileges, i can also sell them to those who pay for them, and i bet some people would, they have the money for it, and the no-brain for it as well. can this be true? very much.

but, even if all of these cases above are true, all of them together are not enough to change the statistics for the majority! unless there are allot of rich people who have nothing better than WOT to spend their money on, and i doubt that, because we would have heard of such a thing by now, or maybe some of you did, but i didn't. so that makes this a low possibility for me, unless i was presented with new information.

so there must be something else! something bigger that all the above...

what if the creators came up with an idea so crazy, it worked! what if there are allot of AI players, with names of people, playing among us! is it doable? i think so, and here is why i think it is doable:
1. the game is being played for along time, the creators have allot of data to build the AI on.
2. the maps are small, and usually there are only 3 main paths that you gotta move the AI players in.
3. there are chat systems for AI, we've all talked to Alexa and all these, worst case scenario the AI do not need to respond.
4. we've seen allot of AI programs (cheats and hacks) created for WOT that farm credits and Exp for the player while he's living his real life.
5. they already got AI players in the training mode, when you play the boot camp or what ever it is called, all they have to do is give them random names, and there are allot of random name creators that can give you millions of random names at the click of a button.

im sure experts can come up with allot more reasons why it is very much doable. and surely ive seen players who im sure are bots.

"ok shamel, let's assume that is true, and there are AI players, why would WG do that?"
well, to start with, more players, faster match making, let me put it this way: if you come to play WOT, press battle, and wait for 15 min. you'll go play War Thunder to anything else, cause you'll get bored, and let's face it WOT is not as popular as other games, don't get me wrong i like WOT, but facts are facts, and why is it not as popular is a whole other argument, but i would say: lazy creators, who are too greedy, they have a powerful money sucking system, they keep working on their money sucking tricks instead of making a better game. but that's enough of that, back to this topic.

no back to why are we mostly getting matched against higher tiers, i was able to come up with the following psychological reason:

if you get 3 satisfying games in a raw, your done playing, and that's no good, if your satisfied and is done playing, you wont buy the premium tanks, you wont buy other tanks thinking they will be stronger, you wont buy premium ammo, you wont buy premium account to unlock the tank that you think will give you that satisfaction, basically, if your satisfied they cannot make money out of you.

but still from time to time, they need to give you a satisfying game, that game where you will make allot of damage, kill allot of tanks, and block all incoming fire, and feel like your the king, so that you would spend the next 15 games trying to get that same epic battle where you feel like Michel Whitman felt until his Ammo rack blew up.

and that is why you are mostly being matched against higher tiers, because we all are, because the AI players are getting all the easy games.

can WG do it, yes they can.
would WG do it, if they could? hahahah absolutely.

and if you think AI player are bad players, go watch you tube videos on how good AI players can get... REALLY good!



Traxx293 #2 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:29 PM

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Asia server has been trialing bots for a while now. I don't know why WG isn't bringing them to the other servers yet. The wait time for a game on Asia rarely ever goes over 2 minutes because the missing team members are filled out with bots if the wait gets too long.

shamelbazoqa #3 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:38 PM

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View PostTraxx293, on 11 April 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

Asia server has been trialing bots for a while now. I don't know why WG isn't bringing them to the other servers yet. The wait time for a game on Asia rarely ever goes over 2 minutes because the missing team members are filled out with bots if the wait gets too long.

 

i'm just all about conspiracies today,  what if the rules in Asia do not allow for players to play against AI without knowing, Asians take gaming extremely serious, and they have rules like going to jail for cheating in games in some Asian countries.



pallie_the_artillerist #4 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:42 PM

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the real explanation could be confirmation bias

SaintMaddenus #5 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:46 PM

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I was darn sure we even had a bot post on here a couple of times... 

 

actually we also have a couple of posters on here have almost bot like post count.



undutchable80 #6 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:47 PM

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Saw a video by Claus Kellerman a while ago with ACTUAL bots in a WoT game ( they had the pre-announced indicator in their name). They performed better than some of the real players we all occasionally have on our teams...

_RNG #7 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:53 PM

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what does it mean when names in wot have a *

Geno1isme #8 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:55 PM

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Can't bother to read that whole wall of text, as it is based on a flawed assumption:

 

"it only makes sense that the two number are the same, because for every player playing against a higher tier, there is a player playing against a lower tier... right?"

 

Nope. Not with the template MM we have since 9.18. Lets assume we have 30 T10 tanks being matched as top-tier in a 3-5-7. Then we need 70 T8 tanks to be low-tier. Now if the equal number of T8 tanks are matched as top-tier in 3-5-7 we'd need about 160 T6 tanks to be low-tier. And repeating it again, about 370 T4 tanks as low-tier.

 

So we'd need a pyramid distribution between the tiers if people want to be equally often top- and low-tier. In reality though we're not even close to that, rather the opposite.



FTR #9 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:58 PM

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If they introduce bots on eu I will be really unhappy and may stop playing this game.

 

I hate playing against bots in games, especially if they are mixed with real players.


Edited by FTR, 11 April 2019 - 12:59 PM.


shamelbazoqa #10 Posted 11 April 2019 - 12:58 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 11 April 2019 - 12:55 PM, said:

Can't bother to read that whole wall of text, as it is based on a flawed assumption:

 

"it only makes sense that the two number are the same, because for every player playing against a higher tier, there is a player playing against a lower tier... right?"

 

Nope. Not with the template MM we have since 9.18. Lets assume we have 30 T10 tanks being matched as top-tier in a 3-5-7. Then we need 70 T8 tanks to be low-tier. Now if the equal number of T8 tanks are matched as top-tier in 3-5-7 we'd need about 160 T6 tanks to be low-tier. And repeating it again, about 370 T4 tanks as low-tier.

 

So we'd need a pyramid distribution between the tiers if people want to be equally often top- and low-tier. In reality though we're not even close to that, rather the opposite.

 

if you kept reading, you would have had your answer... because i came back to round against that.

if you assume all players are human, then it makes sense that for every player who is at lower tier there is one who is at upper tier, but if there are AI players, things change... that's the short version of what i am saying.
12:00 Added after 1 minute

View PostFTR, on 11 April 2019 - 12:58 PM, said:

If they introduce bots on eu I will be really unhappy and may stop playing this game.

 

I hate playing against bots in games, especially if they are mixed with real players.

 

that's what Im afraid is already happening, but i do not have solid evidence.

Sirebellus #11 Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:01 PM

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View Postundutchable80, on 11 April 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

Saw a video by Claus Kellerman a while ago with ACTUAL bots in a WoT game ( they had the pre-announced indicator in their name). They performed better than some of the real players we all occasionally have on our teams...

 

Yes it's the NA server where they are using real Bots... their names have colons at the beginning and end to signify they are not real people (i.e. :Sirebellus: )

The video Undutchable talks about is https://youtu.be/89EvCk0eucY

And shows how well the bots are actually programmed...

undutchable80 #12 Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:17 PM

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View PostSirebellus, on 11 April 2019 - 01:01 PM, said:

 

Yes it's the NA server where they are using real Bots... their names have colons at the beginning and end to signify they are not real people (i.e. :Sirebellus: )

The video Undutchable talks about is https://youtu.be/89EvCk0eucY

And shows how well the bots are actually programmed...

 

Yes! thats the one. That move by that bot at the end when capping (destroying the wall and moving away from it) was actually pretty genius!

Geno1isme #13 Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:25 PM

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View Postshamelbazoqa, on 11 April 2019 - 01:58 PM, said:

if you kept reading, you would have had your answer... because i came back to round against that.

if you assume all players are human, then it makes sense that for every player who is at lower tier there is one who is at upper tier,
As already explained, that is simply 100% wrong as dictated by math: 3 is less than 7, 5 is less than 10. Or are you completely unaware about the template-MM algorithm?

Tealo #14 Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:26 PM

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View PostSirebellus, on 11 April 2019 - 12:01 PM, said:

 

Yes it's the NA server where they are using real Bots... their names have colons at the beginning and end to signify they are not real people (i.e. :Sirebellus: )

The video Undutchable talks about is https://youtu.be/89EvCk0eucY

And shows how well the bots are actually programmed...

 

So I just change my nick to add the colons :Tealo: :great:

Dorander #15 Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:27 PM

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So assuming that you are right about everything you imagined, it must be the case?

 

Gotcha.

 

Incidentally the first statement is already wrong: it is  not the case that for every player playing a higher tier there must be a player playing a lower tier, people choose which tiers they play, matchmaking doesn't put equal numbers against equal numbers per tier. So your "basic logic" is "basic" but not "logic", it's a false assumption.


Edited by Dorander, 11 April 2019 - 01:28 PM.


4nt #16 Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:48 PM

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View Postpallie_the_artillerist, on 11 April 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

the real explanation could be confirmation bias

Not just could, but is. People tend to forget those days filled with top/mid/even tier matches, since our heads have been wired that way. Those who make the effort to record or check back, or even remember positive more effortlessly, aren't coming to forums to complain about MM generally.



PayMore #17 Posted 11 April 2019 - 01:57 PM

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How can wot have bots in asia, its like over 5 000 000 000 people there!

FTR #18 Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:00 PM

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View PostPayMore, on 11 April 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

How can wot have bots in asia, its like over 5 000 000 000 people there!

 

But there is only about 1000000 people on earth.

shamelbazoqa #19 Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:17 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 11 April 2019 - 01:25 PM, said:

As already explained, that is simply 100% wrong as dictated by math: 3 is less than 7, 5 is less than 10. Or are you completely unaware about the template-MM algorithm?

 

I understand what you are saying, but you need to look at the whole picture, "the closer you get the less you see", if everyone is complaining, then who are the lucky ones?

 


when you play a game, these are the possibilities:

1. a single tier game, beautiful, everyone is content.

2. a 2-tier game, half are happy half are sad.

3. a 3-tier game, one third is happy, one third is content and the last third sad.

 

so you got 6 possibilities in total, sad 2 out of 6, content 2 out of 6 and happy 2 out of 6
happy 33%
content 33%
sad 33%

lets leave the content people alone, as they will not be complaining or excited,
for every happy person, there is a sad person, as one day you should be playing as top tier and one day as bottom.

does that make my understanding clear? if not please tell me what im getting wrong.
 

13:25 Added after 7 minutes

View PostDorander, on 11 April 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

So assuming that you are right about everything you imagined, it must be the case?

 

Gotcha.

 

Incidentally the first statement is already wrong: it is  not the case that for every player playing a higher tier there must be a player playing a lower tier, people choose which tiers they play, matchmaking doesn't put equal numbers against equal numbers per tier. So your "basic logic" is "basic" but not "logic", it's a false assumption.

 

read above, and correct me instead of saying i'm wrong.

Jinx79 #20 Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:29 PM

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Hi Shamel

 

I'll just put up a counter argument to your post.  I'm not flaming you here, just trying to show you why I don't agree. 

Firstly Wargaming (to their credit) have been up front about their use of AI bots in the game.  The NA server population is declining and they have been testing the use of bots to improve queue times.  I can't see why they would be open about their use of bots on 1 region and not on others.

Second I don't think you really thought out your points regarding the matching of players across tiers.  As the game forces you to grind up tank lines there are less higher tier tanks on players accounts compared to lower tiers.  Every account has access to tier 1 tanks.  Significantly fewer have access to tier 10 tanks.  Extrapolate this to the matchmaker and there will be more lower tier tanks playing at any one time than higher tiered tanks.  As such it's easier for the matchmaker to find a higher number of low tiered tanks for a game that high tier.  This would mean that you are more likely to be in a bottom tier tank than top tier.  Obviously the template system and playing tier 9 and 10 have a bearing on this as well but at a basic level there will almost always be more lower tier tanks than high tier.  

 







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