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Are there AI player in WOT?

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Dorander #21 Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:29 PM

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View Postshamelbazoqa, on 11 April 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

 

I understand what you are saying, but you need to look at the whole picture, "the closer you get the less you see", if everyone is complaining, then who are the lucky ones?

 


when you play a game, these are the possibilities:

1. a single tier game, beautiful, everyone is content.

2. a 2-tier game, half are happy half are sad.

3. a 3-tier game, one third is happy, one third is content and the last third sad.

 

so you got 6 possibilities in total, sad 2 out of 6, content 2 out of 6 and happy 2 out of 6
happy 33%
content 33%
sad 33%

lets leave the content people alone, as they will not be complaining or excited,
for every happy person, there is a sad person, as one day you should be playing as top tier and one day as bottom.

does that make my understanding clear? if not please tell me what im getting wrong.
 

13:25 Added after 7 minutes

 

read above, and correct me instead of saying i'm wrong.

 

What you get wrong:

 

1: tier difference games aren't split down the middle, the regular template is 5/10.

2: tier games isn't split three ways equally, regular template is 3/5/7.

3: People rate the negatives, loss, injustice, helplessness etc. about twice as impactful on average as the positives. This is compounded when the positive is merely "working as expected". This results in availability bias when questioned as these are the scenarios they most vividly remember and they don't accurately track their statitics. It's also why people tend to be more vocal when complaining than when complimenting.

4: Not everyone is automatically unhappy when they're not top tier.



shamelbazoqa #22 Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:36 PM

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View PostJinx79, on 11 April 2019 - 02:29 PM, said:

Hi Shamel

 

I'll just put up a counter argument to your post.  I'm not flaming you here, just trying to show you why I don't agree. 

Firstly Wargaming (to their credit) have been up front about their use of AI bots in the game.  The NA server population is declining and they have been testing the use of bots to improve queue times.  I can't see why they would be open about their use of bots on 1 region and not on others.

Second I don't think you really thought out your points regarding the matching of players across tiers.  As the game forces you to grind up tank lines there are less higher tier tanks on players accounts compared to lower tiers.  Every account has access to tier 1 tanks.  Significantly fewer have access to tier 10 tanks.  Extrapolate this to the matchmaker and there will be more lower tier tanks playing at any one time than higher tiered tanks.  As such it's easier for the matchmaker to find a higher number of low tiered tanks for a game that high tier.  This would mean that you are more likely to be in a bottom tier tank than top tier.  Obviously the template system and playing tier 9 and 10 have a bearing on this as well but at a basic level there will almost always be more lower tier tanks than high tier.  

 

 

No problem man, your cool.

but what if i told you, that you will face the same problem if you play tier 3, 4 and 5 as well, i wasn't speaking of tiers 8, and 10 alone.

lassekille #23 Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:38 PM

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"it seams everyone is complaining that they are almost all the time matched against higher tier tanks, but that is not possible! "

 

The simple answer is that those who get top tier don't complain.



OreH75 #24 Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:38 PM

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I heard there are also very advanced bots that can make forum posts to try and hide they are actually ingame bots....

Jinx79 #25 Posted 11 April 2019 - 02:47 PM

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View Postshamelbazoqa, on 11 April 2019 - 01:36 PM, said:

 

No problem man, your cool.

but what if i told you, that you will face the same problem if you play tier 3, 4 and 5 as well, i wasn't speaking of tiers 8, and 10 alone.

 

This is true but again you need to look at the whole picture.  The number of tanks decreases as you go up tiers.  There will be more tier 1 than tier 2, more 2 than 3 etc.  Essentially it's not the same amount of tanks at each tier, it's much more a pyramid scale.  In addition if you do play tiers 2 and 3 you would notice that it's either a 1 or 2 tier spread on the matchmaking.  The low tiers have special MM (someone correct me if I'm wrong).  I've got to be honest I can't remember the exact details but I'm pretty sure that tiers 1 - 3 have a protected MM of sorts (can't see tanks +2).  Tier 4 can be rough as it's the first unrestricted tier and sees +2 tanks.  Again this means that there are plenty for tier 4 tanks to fill the lower mm parts of battles as the tiers below are restricted.



Balc0ra #26 Posted 11 April 2019 - 03:03 PM

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View PostTraxx293, on 11 April 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

Asia server has been trialing bots for a while now. I don't know why WG isn't bringing them to the other servers yet. The wait time for a game on Asia rarely ever goes over 2 minutes because the missing team members are filled out with bots if the wait gets too long.

 

NA, SEA and the Australian server has bots. But only on tier 1 to 5. Why? Because at most times of the day, the population there is more or less zero. So when new accounts come to play, they have to wait for ages for a game at times. So instead they make small games with a few AI targets to get games going. The AI targets are marked as such. And not everyone likes them, as they are terrible. And if all the human players dies. Who knows what will happen. EU and RU won't add this yet. As there is no need for it as of now.

 

 

View PostFTR, on 11 April 2019 - 12:58 PM, said:

If they introduce bots on eu I will be really unhappy and may stop playing this game.

 

I hate playing against bots in games, especially if they are mixed with real players.

 

WOWP has it on EU. On tier 1 to 5 you get about 1 to 2 players per team. And the AI is not that solid, so even in a bad plane you can outplay them. So if you leave an area alone for too long and a player comes, he will kill everything there and cap it. It's to easy to be fun. And thus I did not start any new grinds or play it that often. 

 

View Postshamelbazoqa, on 11 April 2019 - 12:58 PM, said:

that's what Im afraid is already happening, but i do not have solid evidence.

 

If that was true, you should have gotten a 60% WR by now. Unless the AI is that tricky to counter?



Dorander #27 Posted 11 April 2019 - 03:09 PM

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View PostJinx79, on 11 April 2019 - 01:47 PM, said:

 

The number of tanks decreases as you go up tiers.  

 

Source for player distribution by tier please.



4nt #28 Posted 11 April 2019 - 03:20 PM

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View PostDorander, on 11 April 2019 - 03:09 PM, said:

 

Source for player distribution by tier please.

I'd like to see that too, last time someone posted it it looked More like an kid's top, with midtiers dominating



Jinx79 #29 Posted 11 April 2019 - 03:33 PM

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View PostDorander, on 11 April 2019 - 02:09 PM, said:

 

Source for player distribution by tier please.

 

Ok I'll see what I can do.  I've not done a in depth study of this and I'll freely admit I'm using some logical thinking and generalisation however https://en.wot-life.com/eu/serverstats/ isn't a bad place to look.  The player distribution by tier graph shows from tier 5/6 onward a decline in the number of players playing as the tiers go up.  Obviously events like frontline throw this out a bit.  Also sort the tanks by players in the Tanks Stats section.  Lower tiers dominate this.  

As I said I'm aware of special matchmaking for lower tiers and they are also quick to grind through so I'd expect to see these played a bit less than tiers 5/6.  Aside from the stats on the site I can't believe for a moment you think that all accounts have all tanks unlocked and available.  As such I would suggest it's not unreasonable to assume almost all accounts will have significantly fewer high tiered tanks compared to low tiered.  Most people are grinding lines and will be playing these more than their top tiers.  I'm not for a moment trying to claim I have the full stats or have some deep insight into tanks tier distribution by account however I would say that my assumptions (and I know it's just my assumptions) are relatively fair.  All I'm attempting to do is say that the OP may need to rethink his point of view.



Bordhaw #30 Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:07 PM

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View Postundutchable80, on 11 April 2019 - 11:47 AM, said:

Saw a video by Claus Kellerman a while ago with ACTUAL bots in a WoT game ( they had the pre-announced indicator in their name). They performed better than some of the real players we all occasionally have on our teams...

 

The WG bots in the past few Halloween events certainly played better than many a real player. 

Geno1isme #31 Posted 12 April 2019 - 08:07 AM

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View Postshamelbazoqa, on 11 April 2019 - 03:17 PM, said:

2. a 2-tier game, half are happy half are sad.

3. a 3-tier game, one third is happy, one third is content and the last third sad.

 

And yet again, that's plain wrong. In a 2- or 3-tier match you generally have way more low- than top-tiers.

Cobra6 #32 Posted 12 April 2019 - 08:16 AM

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There is probably no real AI/bots in play.

 

However, the majority of players in this game function on a mental capacity similar to bots in terms of tactical awareness and gameplay.

 

Cobra 6



Toni112007 #33 Posted 12 April 2019 - 08:25 AM

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It does look to me like that sometimes... especially in my team.

Bad_Mojo_incoming #34 Posted 12 April 2019 - 08:44 AM

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View PostTraxx293, on 11 April 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

Asia server has been trialing bots for a while now. I don't know why WG isn't bringing them to the other servers yet. The wait time for a game on Asia rarely ever goes over 2 minutes because the missing team members are filled out with bots if the wait gets too long.

 

The waiting time on the European servers rarely goes over 20 seconds, so what the heck you need bots for? There are more than enough incompetent potatoes in the game already.

SiliconSidewinder #35 Posted 12 April 2019 - 08:56 AM

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the problem with bots is that you can never programm them right.

 

have them really stupid? everyone complains.

have them good? everyone complains.

and rightfully so in a competitive game.

it's 15 vs 15 and if that's a problem than maybe WG needs to get creative and allow 10 vs 10 battles.



spamhamstar #36 Posted 12 April 2019 - 09:12 AM

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View Postshamelbazoqa, on 11 April 2019 - 01:36 PM, said:

 

No problem man, your cool.

but what if i told you, that you will face the same problem if you play tier 3, 4 and 5 as well, i wasn't speaking of tiers 8, and 10 alone.

 

LOL logic.

 

Templates for mm are either 3,5,7 or 5,10 or 15-0

 

If it's 3,5,7 then there are only 3 top tiers so only 20% of players are happy while 80% are not.  This is mm's preferred template.

 

If it's 5,10 then there are 5 top tiers so only 33% of players are happy while 66% are not.

 

If it's 15-0 nobody or everyone is top tier & everyone or nobody is bottom tier depending on how you look at it.  So nobody is especially happy or unhappy.

 

Any idea why it feels like you're bottom tier most of the time yet?  It's pretty simple maths, not a conspiracy.



seXikanac #37 Posted 12 April 2019 - 09:34 AM

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View PostTraxx293, on 11 April 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

Asia server has been trialing bots for a while now. I don't know why WG isn't bringing them to the other servers yet. The wait time for a game on Asia rarely ever goes over 2 minutes because the missing team members are filled out with bots if the wait gets too long.

 

My waiting time for battle on EU servers are always under 30 sec if it's not past 1 AM

Geno1isme #38 Posted 12 April 2019 - 10:26 AM

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View PostJinx79, on 11 April 2019 - 04:33 PM, said:

Ok I'll see what I can do.  I've not done a in depth study of this and I'll freely admit I'm using some logical thinking and generalisation however https://en.wot-life.com/eu/serverstats/ isn't a bad place to look.  The player distribution by tier graph shows from tier 5/6 onward a decline in the number of players playing as the tiers go up.

 

Nope. You're referring to the blue line which isn't really relevant, as it just shows tier distribution over the complete lifetime of WoT and playerbase, including inactive players. There it is obvious that numbers drop in higher tiers as many people leave the game when they reach the mid-tiers (for various reasons).

 

You need to look at the black "recent" curve to get an idea about what tiers are played actively, and there you see that T8 is the most played tier, while you find very few players around T1-3.

 

It's pretty logical as well if you think about it: Higher tiers require much more time during grinds, so if someone just wants to get from T1 to T10 in a line most of that time is spent in T8+9. But while T9 is also pretty expensive to play for most people they can still farm credits in T8 with premium tanks, and also T8 is the highest level new people can reach quickly with their wallet (unfortunately).

 

The fact that we have more activity in T8-10 than in T6+7 (and below) is the main reason for the "always-low-tier" issues with the template-MM. The recent changes can somewhat mitigate that, but for a real solution WG would either abandon the more-low-than-top-tier templates (or the template system altogether) or we'd need to move activity from high- into mid- and low-tier.



Dorander #39 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:13 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 12 April 2019 - 07:16 AM, said:

There is probably no real AI/bots in play.

 

However, the majority of players in this game function on a mental capacity similar to bots in terms of tactical awareness and gameplay.

 

Cobra 6

 

Don't be silly.


As we saw during Halloween, Wargaming's bots are way better. And wasn't there some test-game where a full team of WG bots played a full team of human players and the bots won?

11:14 Added after 0 minutes

View PostseXikanac, on 12 April 2019 - 08:34 AM, said:

 

My waiting time for battle on EU servers are always under 30 sec if it's not past 1 AM

 

In my experience waiting times on EU1 are so short that when I press Battle and think "Oh I forgot to do something beforehand", I don't even have time to press Exit anymore, I'm already in.





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