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9k battles in Löwe


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avr7002 #21 Posted 11 April 2019 - 07:03 PM

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I am often among top3 in my team by EXP, but not by dmg. I play for team. BTW with Strw 103B there are nothing to do anyway, he had flanked me and I cant ignore it. Löwe has no chance against Strv 103B anyway, so I had nothing to lost, but some ammo.

Among 3 by exp:

http://wotreplays.eu...c3b8f13bcae1bac

 



Balc0ra #22 Posted 11 April 2019 - 07:12 PM

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View Postavr7002, on 11 April 2019 - 06:13 PM, said:

It was bad idea hope on rng and shoot strv103B, but example, how even Löwe with Premium account can make you lost credit.

 

http://wotreplays.eu...c3b8f13bcae1bac

 

 

You fired 10 shots, got 2 damage returns and fired mostly gold with 1K combined assist and damage. It's not much to money to make out of that tbh.

 

First you roll out of cap and spots a few targets. You aim way above anything and miss. You back off to load gold, you're not spotted and yet you snap at the strongest part of the E100. You are not spotted, you have all the time in the world. The lower plate would have given you a 20% higher chance to pen at that angle.

 

Then you aim at the E100 for almost 3 minutes waiting for it to appear. Ignoring other potential targets around you, and others asking for help right next to you. By the time it appears again you aimed at a spot you have a high chance to pen vs a flat side. Then you steer the aim towards his wheel instead, that absorbed it vs penning it.  More time passes and you still tunel vision on that E100 for a bit more. Then you get spotted and fire on the AMX 30 that you wait for a bit before you decide to help the Grille next to you finally. But by then the Strv has take a way stronger position. You lack caliber to overmatch that 50mm armor at that impact angle. So your shots will auto bounce. You should have loaded HE and tried for the cupola.

 

Then you notice the base getting flanked and you get a cheap shot into the AMX 30 before you die.

 

My advice? Focus more on the map and your team vs one target all the time that's hiding. Your teammates still need your help, even tho they are tier X's. Don't waste time vs targets you can't reliably pen. Reposition if you can. As you could have done vs that E100 vs waisting 3 min waiting for it. And after 9K games with the Lowe. You should know what overmatching is, and why you can't pen something that's 70 degrees. My advice there is to go to sites like tank.gg. Spend some time there vs targets you can't pen. And it will tell you why. As most of your shots had zero chance to do damage. As they either got absorbed, or auto bounced. 

 

Profit comes from damage or assist and connecting shots. And a loss of income comes from shots doing nothing. Even more so if it's gold ammo you are wasting. You need to find the balance between the two.

 

 



BR33K1_PAWAH #23 Posted 11 April 2019 - 07:18 PM

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You shouldn't use exp as a measurement of how well you did in game, unless you play light tanks.

The only real indication of player "skill" is WR over a huge amount of battles.

Yours indicates that the way you play this game isn't that effective.

You have plenty of experience in this game but you lack in understanding.



avr7002 #24 Posted 11 April 2019 - 07:35 PM

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Against lower tiers Löwe is good.

http://wotreplays.eu...c3b8f13bcae1bac

 



avr7002 #25 Posted 11 April 2019 - 07:57 PM

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Although I am agreed that wr is best measure of skill, but avg exp is something you get only by doing something in battle and most important - High exp you get only by spotting for yourself and for others. You can get really high dmg and wr, sniping from back. Tanks, that others are spotted for you. And wr is bad measurement, as there are currently tank balance out of control. If I bring in battle Leopard1 and was balanced FV4005 on lot of battles, how we can hope to get same wr? If Löwe was balanced with Scorpion G or SU130 P, there are mostly teams with OP TD who wins. There is not secret, that simply by tank choice you can get 50 + 5 wr, simply by all time driving only bad tanks, you must get 50 -5= 45 wr. If you win more than 50%, it must be same amount out of somebody. Easiest way to get this is using only OP tanks in every tier.



kaneloon #26 Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:01 PM

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View Postvp56, on 11 April 2019 - 03:41 PM, said:

 

Even though it may not seem "nice", the correct thing to tell the OP is precisely that he sucks. Why? Because it's the truth. It's wrong to hide it form him and let him live under the illusion that his tank is "cursed" because even with an absolutely massive sample size of 9k battles he still has 46% win rate and 900 damage per game with a perfectly fine tank.

 

You are wrong, he said HE was cursed with it

 

It is outright immoral to not tell the truth to an obviously very bad player who is asking for advice. Anyone can learn the game and get much better at it, this includes the OP. If he is willing to put in the work I salute him. But the starting point is acknowledging that he is basically a bot and most things he "knows" about the game are dead-wrong. He needs to get rid of all these bad habits and if he really believes that his tank is "cursed" because his win rate after 9k battles is 46%, the guy is obviously in denial and a slap on the face is exactly what's needed.

 

and you think that insulting him by pretending to detain the truth is "moral" ?

 

The next step is learning the core game mechanics, ignoring advice from the other bad but nice players and instead learning from the "unfriendly" better players.

 

you must be the "unfriendly" ... what do you teach here ?

 

To the OP I recommend watching streams and openly trying to learn from the better players. It's also important that the OP doesn't fall into the "go to low tiers to learn" trap that lots of other bad players will suggest. He needs to play high tiers, make lots of mistakes and actively learn from them. When unsure he can post replays with tank X on map Y with the mindset "What I should have done?" and not get defensive when a good player calls him out on his bad decisions and tells him what he should've done instead.

 

that is what avr was doing, just to tell you what you obviously didn't get

 

And last but not least, every good player has invariably broken lots of sweat and bled a lot on their way to their current level. This is how you get better. It's not always "fun" which is why most players never become decent.

 

very constructive ...

 

Avr7002 asked for advice, not useless statements that are relieving the own frustration of mr obvious ...



BR33K1_PAWAH #27 Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:06 PM

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View Postavr7002, on 11 April 2019 - 09:57 PM, said:

Although I am agreed that wr is best measure of skill, but avg exp is something you get only by doing something in battle and most important - High exp you get only by spotting for yourself and for others. You can get really high dmg and wr, sniping from back. Tanks, that others are spotted for you. And wr is bad measurement, as there are currently tank balance out of control. If I bring in battle Leopard1 and was balanced FV4005 on lot of battles, how we can hope to get same wr? If Löwe was balanced with Scorpion G or SU130 P, there are mostly teams with OP TD who wins. There is not secret, that simply by tank choice you can get 50 + 5 wr, simply by all time driving only bad tanks, you must get 50 -5= 45 wr. If you win more than 50%, it must be same amount out of somebody. Easiest way to get this is using only OP tanks in every tier.

 

WR can't be bad or good, it is actually the only thing that measures player's effort in winning the game. The more valuable your input is, the better WR you get. And otherwise.

It works like this in any multiplayer game.

Yes, in WoT some tanks are better than others, and better tanks will enhance your input while the worse ones will hinder it. Obviously. But it doesn't mean its somehow compromises WR as a measurement of player's input.


Edited by BR33K1_PAWAH, 11 April 2019 - 08:07 PM.


JocMeister #28 Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:08 PM

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I will give you what feedback I can based on the replays. I´m not a very good HT player though so take it for what it is!

 

Steppes:

Good choice of line. You don´t pay attention to your team though. You rush ahead alone despite their CAX. Cearn, 53tp and 110 clearly going up against you. Look at the map. You should have turned back. Lorrain is spotted above you but you still drive forward right into a bad position where the Lorraine and EBR can flank you. Their entire team except 5 tanks are on the 9-0 line. 

 

Your mistake in that game was clearly pushing ahead alone. Never do that. Even with 4 enemies HT spotted also going for 9-0 line you kept going dooming yourself. Look at the map and what is happening all the time. Especially important in the beginning. Who are with you? Are you alone? How many are we? How many worst case will they be? Can I retreat if they have a lot more tanks? Etc, etc,

 

Airfield.

No arty. Tier 9 MM. Fantastic MM for you. I wouldn´t have gone HT line but that is probably personal preference. T32 is spotted on the hill for a long time. But you still drive into his fire. The Tier 9 WZ also isn´t spotted nor is the JT. If they had been on the sniper shelf on D8 they would have deleted you straight to garage. You do the same peak again driving sideways into the AMX who hits you, you pull back and then do the same peak again?! You then do it a 3rd time?! You have just giving away 1k HP to the AMX. How nice of you. :) You then do the same peak again. KV122 misses you but the AMX didn´t.

 

Not really sure where to begin. You obviously need to work A LOT on you map awareness, Enlarge the map and look at it every 5th second. Always look at it. Understand and try to anticipate where the enemy might be. Doing that first peak could easily have sent you to the garage. You were just lucky that the WZ and JT wasn´t on the normal position where you could expect them. Your peaks are awful. You go out basically sideways showing them a flat surface to shoot you at. 100mm of armor. You won´t bounce anything with that.

You did your first awful peak getting penned by the AMX. You should have realized you can´t take on a M4 51 and win. Especially not considering the KV-122, T32 and possibly the JT could shoot you. You should have pulled back and went somewhere else. I would probably have pulled back and see if I could lure the AMX to follow. But instead you did the same peak 4 times. If it doesnt work the first time I won´t a second, or a third, or a 4th.

 

Steppes:

Again fantastic MM. No arty full tier 8 MM. Good map for you. I don´t agree to go 1 line though. They have a Defender, IS3 and VK100P. Not targets you want to trade with. Instead you should have gone 2 line and wrecked any MTs (there are a lot on the map). Löwe is a great tank for that position. With no arty you can play hulldown and just wreck anything. You peak several times, are spotted and fired at but never shoot back? You will miss 100% of the shots you never take. You already exposed yourself so you might as well fire. You never know when you get a luck hit. Enemy pull back and you have a good position where they have to peak against your already preaimed gun. Yet you never fire against the IS3 and suddenly pull back? Why? You can PEN the IS3 roof. Its a lucky shot but you never even try? Its now 3 mins into the game and you still havn´t fired a shot. Do something. You are too inactive. A bit of bad luck on the VK100P. At least the 1st one should have penned. 2nd one is just bad RNG. You reaction is really slow? Do you play with a very bad ping. Despite having a good shot well aimed into the VK cupola (and a green pen marker) it takes you 2-3 seconds before you fire? You notice the VTU moving up behind you but in turning you expose yourself to the FV, Pantera and VK behind you. You should have ignore the VTU and tried to farm the FV. Game is clearly lost and you are dead no matter what. Try to get as much damage done as possible. The VTU was the smallest threat in this case.

 

Playing a slow HT its critical you analyze the MM and team setups and pick the best line for your circumstances. In this game you would have had a better game going the 2 line. Of that I am certain. You make some strange peaks that I can´t really explain. Don´t expose yourself unnecessarily. You did on several occasion in that game. You were also passive for a long time actually doing nothing. I think in this game you doomed yourself again to a bad game because you picked the wrong position to play. That being said there were plenty of time to relocate. 



Balc0ra #29 Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:15 PM

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View Postavr7002, on 11 April 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

Although I am agreed that wr is best measure of skill, but avg exp is something you get only by doing something in battle and most important - High exp you get only by spotting for yourself and for others. You can get really high dmg and wr, sniping from back. Tanks, that others are spotted for you.

 

True. But that also depends on you reacting to your surroundings, and not just one target at the time. And go for targets you can deal with. In all your replays you have tunnel vision too much. And your focus is always where it can do the least good tbh. 



satakuua #30 Posted 11 April 2019 - 08:18 PM

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View PostBR33K1_PAWAH, on 11 April 2019 - 08:18 PM, said:

You shouldn't use exp as a measurement of how well you did in game, unless you play light tanks.

The only real indication of player "skill" is WR over a huge amount of battles..

 

I think the same. WN8 and other metrics are there for the people who like them, but as it is a team game, percentage of battles won tells you best whether or not you are an asset or not (i.e. good at the game).



Richthoffen #31 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:01 PM

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View Postavr7002, on 11 April 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

Although I am agreed that wr is best measure of skill, but avg exp is something you get only by doing something in battle and most important - High exp you get only by spotting for yourself and for others. You can get really high dmg and wr, sniping from back. Tanks, that others are spotted for you. And wr is bad measurement, as there are currently tank balance out of control. If I bring in battle Leopard1 and was balanced FV4005 on lot of battles, how we can hope to get same wr? If Löwe was balanced with Scorpion G or SU130 P, there are mostly teams with OP TD who wins. There is not secret, that simply by tank choice you can get 50 + 5 wr, simply by all time driving only bad tanks, you must get 50 -5= 45 wr. If you win more than 50%, it must be same amount out of somebody. Easiest way to get this is using only OP tanks in every tier.

 

those op TD's are glass canons, playing them you need to focus on not getting hit, HE will wreck them.

play to the strong points, for the Lowe it has a accurate gun and hard turret so second line sniping when bottom tier or sidescrape/hulldown. and by reading the comments overall watch that minimap and understand how the teams move not just hope the enemy will play in your favor



SaintMaddenus #32 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:06 PM

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I only play my Lowe in Frontline now as I am not good enough to play at T10 in a Tier 8.    If I can get a T9 battle i'm reasonably satisfied that I can do something but 3 5 7 is not my cup of tea.

 

Lowe turret is great, good gun drepression.  Trouble is people bounce once and press 2.   So armour is less important.


 


 



krazypenguin #33 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:16 PM

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View Postavr7002, on 11 April 2019 - 06:57 PM, said:

Although I am agreed that wr is best measure of skill, but avg exp is something you get only by doing something in battle and most important - High exp you get only by spotting for yourself and for others. You can get really high dmg and wr, sniping from back. Tanks, that others are spotted for you. And wr is bad measurement, as there are currently tank balance out of control. If I bring in battle Leopard1 and was balanced FV4005 on lot of battles, how we can hope to get same wr? If Löwe was balanced with Scorpion G or SU130 P, there are mostly teams with OP TD who wins. There is not secret, that simply by tank choice you can get 50 + 5 wr, simply by all time driving only bad tanks, you must get 50 -5= 45 wr. If you win more than 50%, it must be same amount out of somebody. Easiest way to get this is using only OP tanks in every tier.

 

 

 

 

I mean no offense with this, but I feel I have to comment here.

 

You've come here and asked for help and many players have kindly taken the time to watch your replays and offer advice but this reply makes me think everyone here is wasting their time.  I believe this comment of yours is indicative of the problem here - it feels like you aren't listening and taking onboard the comments offered to you.  You are refusing to accept what you are being told, instead making excuses and saying it's the tank that's the problem.

 

You will never improve until you accept your shortcomings, and it just doesn't feel to me like you are actually willing to do that here.

 

Edit - wtf is going on with this stupid forum putting massive empty spaces everywhere?


Edited by krazypenguin, 12 April 2019 - 12:18 PM.


Toni112007 #34 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:18 PM

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I got Löwe once for rental and I really didn't like it. Tho it isn't a bad tank. Just that its outdated alpha and abysmally low DPM don't cut it for me. My advice on how to actually become slightly better? I think what helped me first to become better player was increasing my survival rate (I have roughly 40% survival rate). So basically prioritize your survival. Remember that the longer you stay alive the more damage you will do and in the end that will help you win. But that doesn't mean you should camp. When top tier you should try to be on first line and hide your lower plate. When bottom tier, you should stay behind your top tier heavies and use them as meat shield (basically when enemy fires on your top tier heavy you then peek out and try to shoot their weakspot while they are reloading) You should also learn when to abandon the flank when things start bad for your team (unfortunately Lowe might be too slow for this). You should sometimes even do nothing and wait behind a corner (Maybe bait some shots by sidescraping) for the enemy to make a mistake (turn away its attention to someone else) if you can't afford to trade, and when they do make a mistake you punish them. You should also learn when to brawl in. This can sometimes grant you a victory even tho you might die as result. Basically you need to know a moment when to go all in on enemy and hopefully your team mates will follow (in my case they mostly do, and if they don't I then complain that team is bad xd). But what really helped me was increasing my survival chance. You aren't of any use if you die in the first 2-3 minutes.

Rati_Festa #35 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:28 PM

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View Postvp56, on 11 April 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

 

Even though it may not seem "nice", the correct thing to tell the OP is precisely that he sucks. Why? Because it's the truth. It's wrong to hide it form him and let him live under the illusion that his tank is "cursed" because even with an absolutely massive sample size of 9k battles he still has 46% win rate and 900 damage per game with a perfectly fine tank.

 

It is outright immoral to not tell the truth to an obviously very bad player who is asking for advice. Anyone can learn the game and get much better at it, this includes the OP. If he is willing to put in the work I salute him. But the starting point is acknowledging that he is basically a bot and most things he "knows" about the game are dead-wrong. He needs to get rid of all these bad habits and if he really believes that his tank is "cursed" because his win rate after 9k battles is 46%, the guy is obviously in denial and a slap on the face is exactly what's needed.

 

The next step is learning the core game mechanics, ignoring advice from the other bad but nice players and instead learning from the "unfriendly" better players.

 

To the OP I recommend watching streams and openly trying to learn from the better players. It's also important that the OP doesn't fall into the "go to low tiers to learn" trap that lots of other bad players will suggest. He needs to play high tiers, make lots of mistakes and actively learn from them. When unsure he can post replays with tank X on map Y with the mindset "What I should have done?" and not get defensive when a good player calls him out on his bad decisions and tells him what he should've done instead.

 

And last but not least, every good player has invariably broken lots of sweat and bled a lot on their way to their current level. This is how you get better. It's not always "fun" which is why most players never become decent.

 

I agree with your sentiment about telling him the truth.

 

But doesn't the fact he has played 9k in a Lowe and quite clearly not learnt anything make your only play high tank proposal to learn.... questionable advice?



Toni112007 #36 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:40 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 12 April 2019 - 12:28 PM, said:

 

I agree with your sentiment about telling him the truth.

 

But doesn't the fact he has played 9k in a Lowe and quite clearly not learnt anything make your only play high tank proposal to learn.... questionable advice?

 

I don't know about him but I learned the most in higher tier tanks (how to sidescrape, weakspots etc...) particularly in the E75.



Rati_Festa #37 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:46 PM

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View PostToni112007, on 12 April 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

 

I don't know about him but I learned the most in higher tier tanks (how to sidescrape, weakspots etc...) particularly in the E75.

 

Did it take you 9k games? :P

Toni112007 #38 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:50 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 12 April 2019 - 12:46 PM, said:

 

Did it take you 9k games? :P

 

About 500-600 I guess xD. When I played E75 it was more dumb proof than its today and I could afford make some mistakes in it. And cause of that I improved. I don't think Löwe is a good tank to learn on.

Edited by Toni112007, 12 April 2019 - 12:51 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #39 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:58 PM

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View PostToni112007, on 12 April 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

 

When I played E75 it was more dumb proof than its today and I could afford make some mistakes in it. And cause of that I improved. 

 

Exactly, unlike the Lowe which as you mentioned has a very specific play style. Add to that a lot of tier 9 and 10 battles and you'll get a very limited opportunity to learn anything beside getting mauled by better and bigger tanks. Friends and platoons help a lot with that, streams and replays have some functionality but most important is the capacity to learn.

Toni112007 #40 Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:04 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 12 April 2019 - 12:58 PM, said:

 

Exactly, unlike the Lowe which as you mentioned has a very specific play style. Add to that a lot of tier 9 and 10 battles and you'll get a very limited opportunity to learn anything beside getting mauled by better and bigger tanks. Friends and platoons help a lot with that, streams and replays have some functionality but most important is the capacity to learn.

 

He should get tier 9 heavy tank with strong armor (No type 4 because that won't make you better) cause there isn't +2 mm and is generally more forgiving cause of that.

Edited by Toni112007, 12 April 2019 - 01:05 PM.





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