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Would A Target Symbol Address Some SPG Issues?


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TungstenHitman #1 Posted 12 April 2019 - 11:50 AM

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I was just thinking, which is a rare thing I know. You guys know the way that a teammate SPG can paint the ground with a target where they are aiming at, it's a very helpful feature and a feature that every sensible SPG player should use along with their reload status indicator. Well, one of the biggest issues I would find with the current SPG meta is that we have absolutely no idea of knowing we are being targeted until we get smashed with a bomb at which point it's obviously too late, so we really can't defend against it the same way we can defend against line of sight tanks including even unseen TD's which tend to be the same ol spots we just tip toe around.

 

But what if a similar yet involuntary target painter was to be implemented in this game for when an enemy SPG is aiming at the same location for a specific amount of time, that we could see and at least then know we are being targeted briefly and perhaps have chance to turn our tanks towards the likely location of that SPG to lesson the blow? No target painter initially during the first several seconds of an enemy SPG aiming(balanced accordingly to the various SPG aim times) then a very transparent almost invisible, hard to even notice, target symbol starts to form on the target area after X amount of time which gradually becomes a little more pronounced the longer the aim is held on that same spot.

 

What do you guys think? I know SPG players will probably hate the notion but how do you guys think that would play out? Would it make any difference? Would it be too harsh? You understand what I mean right? The area an enemy SPG is aiming his gun at, would, after X amount of time, start to show a target symbol on the ground that starts off almost invisible but then becomes more pronounced the longer he is aiming that same spot. 



OllieCromwell #2 Posted 12 April 2019 - 11:54 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 April 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

...

Well, one of the biggest issues I would find with the current SPG meta is that we have absolutely no idea of knowing we are being targeted until we get smashed with a bomb at which point it's obviously too late, so we really can't defend against it the same way we can defend against line of sight tanks including even unseen TD's which tend to be the same ol spots we just tip toe around.

...

 

Well .. you maybe don't realize you are being targeted, but it takes an arty shell roughly 3 seconds to reach it's target .... so you only get hit when you are sitting still or drive in a straight line .... (to put it simple).



MeetriX #3 Posted 12 April 2019 - 11:58 AM

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View PostOllieCromwell, on 12 April 2019 - 11:54 AM, said:

 

... so you only get hit when you are sitting still or drive in a straight line .... (to put it simple).

Right. :justwait:



Dorander #4 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:09 PM

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Sixth Sense is enough ESP in the game as it is. I could understand a tie-in with that of it going off when your location is being pre-aimed by arty or something similar, but revealing information you have absolutely no way of having for no other reason than to make a class which has far less impact per game than any other tank type do even less... meh.

 

Being able to get hit by people you didnt know where there is a key tactical feature of this game (that is, being the one who does the hitting), without that it just becomes a brawlfest. It's unreasonable to demand it's only applicable to one class, so this idea ought to be matched by a similar change for other tank types who can then get spotted after being in the same area for a while. Or alternatively, just no.



Geno1isme #5 Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:11 PM

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That would turn arty even more into a class for psychological warfare ... when just aiming at someone will get him to leave his position, and save the actual shots for those people that can't leave anyway :trollface:

DeadLecter #6 Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:05 PM

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View PostOllieCromwell, on 12 April 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:

 

Well .. you maybe don't realize you are being targeted, but it takes an arty shell roughly 3 seconds to reach it's target .... so you only get hit when you are sitting still or drive in a straight line .... (to put it simple).

 

This is not true. SPG driver know that they need to give their shell some lead. And no matter how unpredictably you drive, SPGs have a huge splash radius. I play some arty for missions. I splashed 7~8 meters from a T100 lt and got him for almost 500 damage. Combine their accuracy + splash radius and some lead, then you can shoot everyone. 

I wish arty was like AW. If arty fires at you, you get a warning. And everytime arty shoots, their location is revealed. Why should clickers be able to sit and click with no care or worry of getting spotted? While other classes are in constant danger. 


Edited by DeadLecter, 12 April 2019 - 01:06 PM.


OllieCromwell #7 Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:16 PM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 12 April 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

 

This is not true. SPG driver know that they need to give their shell some lead. And no matter how unpredictably you drive, SPGs have a huge splash radius. I play some arty for missions. I splashed 7~8 meters from a T100 lt and got him for almost 500 damage. Combine their accuracy + splash radius and some lead, then you can shoot everyone. 

I wish arty was like AW. If arty fires at you, you get a warning. And everytime arty shoots, their location is revealed. Why should clickers be able to sit and click with no care or worry of getting spotted? While other classes are in constant danger. 

 

First of .... 'leading your target' gets increasingly difficult when your target is zig-zagging due to reticle bloom  ... true, the higher you get into the tiers the bigger the splash will get and there is some margin for 'error' (missing).

 

Arty is relatively safe as long as the team is holding its flank(s) and if you don't count the tracers giving away it's position... but all that safety is worth nothing when a flank falls or when a light/wheelie breaks thru the lines ... 

So yes, it's comfy shooting but the low health pool and the low speed  are the downside once you get detected/countered by another arty/light/wheelie

 

That 'safety' you mention only goes so far ... 



SuedKAT #8 Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:34 PM

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I would be happy if there was a permanent target marker for where my allied arty is aiming, it's after all my main source of received team damage. Like for example last night when it was me in a LT with 2 allied LT's on the mid hill on Abbey vs 1 enemy LT, he managed to hit us one time but allied arty managed to do about 150 damage to my 2 allied LT's and 260 (59-16 with 600 total health) damage to me plus damage my engine and kill my driver, if I knew allied arty was aiming there I would have been driving away from that location as fast as possible, allied arty is often more dangerous than enemies.

Emerald_322 #9 Posted 12 April 2019 - 01:44 PM

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View PostSuedKAT, on 12 April 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

I would be happy if there was a permanent target marker for where my allied arty is aiming, it's after all my main source of received team damage. Like for example last night when it was me in a LT with 2 allied LT's on the mid hill on Abbey vs 1 enemy LT, he managed to hit us one time but allied arty managed to do about 150 damage to my 2 allied LT's and 260 (59-16 with 600 total health) damage to me plus damage my engine and kill my driver, if I knew allied arty was aiming there I would have been driving away from that location as fast as possible, allied arty is often more dangerous than enemies.

 

Had that happened to me 2 days ago, facehugging a WZ120  who had less than 100hp  waiting on my reload to finish him and BOOM  friendly arty hits me for 700 dmg and killed the wz.  Too bad for him he was in my direct line of sight so he paid for it almost immediately. Sent him a Pm after game to explain him my actions and perhaps learn something in the future 

Homer_J #10 Posted 12 April 2019 - 02:09 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 April 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

, so we really can't defend against it the same way we can defend against line of sight tanks including even unseen TD's which tend to be the same ol spots we just tip toe around.

 

Just assume arty is always aiming at you if you are being useful.  Most of the time you will be right.

MeetriX #11 Posted 12 April 2019 - 02:20 PM

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View PostOllieCromwell, on 12 April 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

 

First of .... 'leading your target' gets increasingly difficult when your target is zig-zagging due to reticle bloom  ... true, the higher you get into the tiers the bigger the splash will get and there is some margin for 'error' (missing).

 

Arty is relatively safe as long as the team is holding its flank(s) and if you don't count the tracers giving away it's position... but all that safety is worth nothing when a flank falls or when a light/wheelie breaks thru the lines ... 

So yes, it's comfy shooting but the low health pool and the low speed  are the downside once you get detected/countered by another arty/light/wheelie

 

That 'safety' you mention only goes so far ... 

Lots of people zig-zag but on overall they still go on the same direction but only half the speed.



dan_dix #12 Posted 12 April 2019 - 03:50 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 April 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

But what if a similar yet involuntary target painter was to be implemented in this game for when an enemy SPG is aiming at the same location for a specific amount of time, that we could see and at least then know we are being targeted briefly and perhaps have chance to turn our tanks towards the likely location of that SPG to lesson the blow? No target painter initially during the first several seconds of an enemy SPG aiming(balanced accordingly to the various SPG aim times) then a very transparent almost invisible, hard to even notice, target symbol starts to form on the target area after X amount of time which gradually becomes a little more pronounced the longer the aim is held on that same spot.

 

Then the arty player will just not aim in the same place for a long time, just enough to get the shot in. Higher tier artas don't even have to aim that long (particularly with good crew and equipment and huge splash) so this could be easily circumvented. Even with long reload times players move the aiming point a lot to anticipate where the next shot would be, so you would rarely get enough "accumulation" of targeting on one point.

 

As someone else says, sixth sense is already a pretty good indicator you are about to be targeted by arta - depending on your location, number of arties, flow of the battle etc. And most of the time knowing you are targeted won't help you much because the shell is already on the way.



Homer_J #13 Posted 12 April 2019 - 03:56 PM

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View PostOllieCromwell, on 12 April 2019 - 01:16 PM, said:

 

First of .... 'leading your target' gets increasingly difficult when your target is zig-zagging due to reticle bloom  ...

 

View PostMeetriX, on 12 April 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

Lots of people zig-zag but on overall they still go on the same direction but only half the speed.

 

Mostly they zigzag but make it plainly obvious where they are heading so I just aim there.

Bordhaw #14 Posted 12 April 2019 - 06:55 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 April 2019 - 10:50 AM, said:

I was just thinking, which is a rare thing I know. You guys know the way that a teammate SPG can paint the ground with a target where they are aiming at, it's a very helpful feature and a feature that every sensible SPG player should use along with their reload status indicator. Well, one of the biggest issues I would find with the current SPG meta is that we have absolutely no idea of knowing we are being targeted until we get smashed with a bomb at which point it's obviously too late, so we really can't defend against it the same way we can defend against line of sight tanks including even unseen TD's which tend to be the same ol spots we just tip toe around.

 

You have sixth sense... what more do you want? 

OllieCromwell #15 Posted 12 April 2019 - 07:11 PM

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View PostMeetriX, on 12 April 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

Lots of people zig-zag but on overall they still go on the same direction but only half the speed.

 

Predictability is another thing ... yes ... in that case the zig-zagging is executed poorly :)

1ncompetenc3 #16 Posted 12 April 2019 - 10:44 PM

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I'm just wondering how easy would it be to mod the colour of that targeting circle to be eye-searingly obvious at all times?

PervyPastryPuffer #17 Posted 12 April 2019 - 11:06 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 12 April 2019 - 03:56 PM, said:

Mostly they zigzag but make it plainly obvious where they are heading so I just aim there.

 

I've oneshot many LT's on Prokhorovka's mid ridge this way. :D ...and missed many times more.

 


OP, I think your idea should be done for YOUR team, so they know where allied arty is aiming all the time, so they can move out of the way if need be. Just as SuedKAT mentioned above.



Zylon0 #18 Posted 13 April 2019 - 03:27 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 April 2019 - 10:50 AM, said:

I was just thinking, which is a rare thing I know. You guys know the way that a teammate SPG can paint the ground with a target where they are aiming at, it's a very helpful feature and a feature that every sensible SPG player should use along with their reload status indicator. Well, one of the biggest issues I would find with the current SPG meta is that we have absolutely no idea of knowing we are being targeted until we get smashed with a bomb at which point it's obviously too late, so we really can't defend against it the same way we can defend against line of sight tanks including even unseen TD's which tend to be the same ol spots we just tip toe around.

 

But what if a similar yet involuntary target painter was to be implemented in this game for when an enemy SPG is aiming at the same location for a specific amount of time, that we could see and at least then know we are being targeted briefly and perhaps have chance to turn our tanks towards the likely location of that SPG to lesson the blow? No target painter initially during the first several seconds of an enemy SPG aiming(balanced accordingly to the various SPG aim times) then a very transparent almost invisible, hard to even notice, target symbol starts to form on the target area after X amount of time which gradually becomes a little more pronounced the longer the aim is held on that same spot.

 

What do you guys think? I know SPG players will probably hate the notion but how do you guys think that would play out? Would it make any difference? Would it be too harsh? You understand what I mean right? The area an enemy SPG is aiming his gun at, would, after X amount of time, start to show a target symbol on the ground that starts off almost invisible but then becomes more pronounced the longer he is aiming that same spot. 

 

This would make arty useless.

02:28 Added after 1 minute

View PostPervyPastryPuffer, on 12 April 2019 - 10:06 PM, said:

 

I've oneshot many LT's on Prokhorovka's mid ridge this way. :D ...and missed many times more.

 


OP, I think your idea should be done for YOUR team, so they know where allied arty is aiming all the time, so they can move out of the way if need be. Just as SuedKAT mentioned above.

 

Even if you use the T function every time to mark where you are firing as arty.

Team members will usually ignore it and get hit anyway.

You cant fix stupid.



Balc0ra #19 Posted 13 April 2019 - 03:41 AM

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I would love to know where my arty is aiming on the minimap. They have added that once, as the early GB or FL images had it iirc.

 

But as for enemy arty? The issue here is that its hidden info that can be abused too as such via mods at some point. As you are getting some info on an unspotted target if you will. Besides the tracer that is.

 

 

View PostTungstenHitman, on 12 April 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

But what if a similar yet involuntary target painter was to be implemented in this game for when an enemy SPG is aiming at the same location for a specific amount of time, that we could see and at least then know we are being targeted briefly and perhaps have chance to turn our tanks towards the likely location of that SPG to lesson the blow? No target painter initially during the first several seconds of an enemy SPG aiming(balanced accordingly to the various SPG aim times) then a very transparent almost invisible, hard to even notice, target symbol starts to form on the target area after X amount of time which gradually becomes a little more pronounced the longer the aim is held on that same spot.

 

Then all most would do to bypass it would simply to aim at a different spot, like A0 when reloading or waiting for a target, then jump and aim when it appears, and fire before any significant warning is given to even avoid the splash.

 

What I miss is what most old sound mods had before back in the day. They had a sound on an incoming shell that gave a few seconds warning once fired. Something like that would help a bit even.






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