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Late Night Eulogy


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Salomoo #1 Posted 22 April 2019 - 12:45 AM

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A German gaming magazine once tried to answer the question whether WoT is pay-to-win. It concluded that since someone with a bit of knowledge about the tanks would tear apart a gold-spamming-newbie, WoT is not pay-to-win.

 

I disagree.

 

I am the kind of average player that only rarely spends money on the game. Since joining the game in 2012, I bought 6 Premium Tanks, gold for maybe 30 € and even tried a couple of loot boxes last Christmas. But clearly I am not the kind of player the producers of this game are targetting nowadays.

 

Back when I joined, there was no gold amo. There were no premium consumables, there was no gold-bought camouflage, there were no bonds, and there was no new OP tank line every couple of months. Back then, instead of being designed as the new OP-must-have, premium tanks were actually designed to be weaker than their standard tank counterparts and advertised as such.

 

It was a fun game back then, where you could buy a premium tank or some premium time to help with the costs of tier 10 Tanks or to progress a little faster, but you didn't have to in order to enjoy the game.

 

Bit by bit that changed. Nowadays, when WG puts their 16 worst selling premium tanks on sale, some people complain because they already have them all and/or they are not good enough anymore compared to the newer, more powerful premium tanks.

 

In todays WoT-environment, an average player has two options:
Option 1: Spend money on premium stuff to drive a more powerful tank
Option 2: Fight a constant uphill battle doing long, frustrating grinds to tanks already powercrept by the time you reach them and serving as fodder for those Progettos, e-25, defender, or whatever new more powerfull tank line just arrived, all the while being excluded from all kinds of specials that focus on the gold-spending players.

 

I do enjoy challenges, but playing the free version of this game is simply no fun anymore.

 

I could, of course, pay to play the more enjoyable version of the game. And it's not that I generally object to paying for games. I bought quite a few games in my life and also spent my share of money on WoT. But constantly paying just to be able to continue playing the fun version of a game just isn't for me.

 

What I loved about this game wasn't only the short intensive battles (or now the long, even more intensive frontline battles). I enjoyed unlocking new modules, new tanks, inching my way along the tech tree. I enjoyed learning the wekspots of the different tanks encountered and learning how to play my new tanks against the oponents encountered at that tier. I enjoyed playing on a more or less even playing field and I even enjoyed facing (or researching and playing) an OPed tank now and then and cursing or loving this game, depending on what side I was on. I enjoyed a game that was designed for fun, not for maximising profit.

 

That game is dead. Worse than that: It abandoned me and I miss it.

 

When I started this game a friend warned me that in his experience all free to play games eventually turn pay to win or pay to play. He would therefore not touch this game. I didn't understand why, since, after all, what could he lose?

 

Now I know.

 

 

P.S.: Yeah, i know, I'm slow with that realisation. Sue me.



1ncompetenc3 #2 Posted 22 April 2019 - 01:11 AM

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TL;DR

I assume this is a goodbye post which is attention whoring at the best of times, but when it's your third forum post in total I have to wonder: who are you expecting to give a damn?



DonKralleone #3 Posted 22 April 2019 - 07:43 AM

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As far as I can tell, u mostly play tier tier 7+ and ur winrate i the specific tanks at those tiers would indicate you're not doing too well at that. U seem to fare batter in the Kv-1 and the Cromwell B, so i would suggest a cooling-off period and then come back and focus on tiers 5-7 instead. Much more fun for you, i think?

Thats what i did ;)



Frostilicus #4 Posted 22 April 2019 - 08:18 AM

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Very poor quality flounce, must try harder - or do what DonKralleone says, that's good too :)

hoveruss #5 Posted 22 April 2019 - 09:10 AM

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Intelligently written post Sir.

 

Ignore the smarmy 'cut and pasters.' They love to belittle intelligent debate. It makes them feel like big men.



Bordhaw #6 Posted 22 April 2019 - 10:21 AM

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View PostSalomoo, on 21 April 2019 - 11:45 PM, said:

A German gaming magazine once tried to answer the question whether WoT is pay-to-win. It concluded that since someone with a bit of knowledge about the tanks would tear apart a gold-spamming-newbie, WoT is not pay-to-win.

 

I disagree.

 

That game is dead. Worse than that: It abandoned me and I miss it.

 

 

WG is doing what the players want.

The players want ever more OP tanks.

If WG release a same stat or less than same stat tank which is not OP then nobody would buy it and it's labelled "rubbish".

If WG release a OP tank then forum players complain it is "too OP".

WG have to release new tanks as what encourages continued playability. Plus WG prefer the OP tanks as it encourages players to continue to buy them to keep up with the meta and keep their awesome win rates etc.... but who cares it's just a game.  

 

 



WindSplitter1 #7 Posted 22 April 2019 - 09:08 PM

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View PostSalomoo, on 21 April 2019 - 11:45 PM, said:

 

Option 2: Fight a constant uphill battle doing long, frustrating grinds to tanks already powercrept by the time you reach them and serving as fodder

 

I read all your post and I can understand why you feel that way. Though I stand as a P2P.

 

Your option 2 hereby listed. I could have not put it through better words.

 

Nevertheless, on the net, I do get something out of the game. So it is not a total loss. Still, annoying.

 

Before my money splurging on this game, I only played the M24 Chaffee almost exclusively. Back then, the vehicle saw IS-6, JT88... I remember battles where you would not shot one round and finish top by XP on both teams, carrying yours to victory. No premium will ever beat this.

 

Then Skorpions, E25... all fodder for that Tier V LT.

 

The fun was over with 9.17/18 and I had to look for other alternatives or just quit the game. Had I knew where it would be heading to (SerB out, Murazor and his policies in) I'd probably have my eulogy as well.

 

But overall, even then, WoT is still a great game. Sadly, it is poorly managed over it's biggest customerbase.



TheComfyChair #8 Posted 22 April 2019 - 10:30 PM

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Who pays the people that make  "free to play games" ??

Edited by TheComfyChair, 22 April 2019 - 10:31 PM.


Ggorc #9 Posted 23 April 2019 - 11:45 AM

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This is the least pay to win game i played, its rigged/fixed when it comes to MM and RNG :) but this is good since it creates challenging games.

Edited by Ggorc, 23 April 2019 - 11:48 AM.


Kozzy #10 Posted 23 April 2019 - 12:00 PM

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Can we please have a unicum volunteer to perform the same experiment that AngelOfAwe did 4/5 years ago?

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/460625-the-r-lion-now-f2peditedlion-f2p-experiment-finished/



seXikanac #11 Posted 23 April 2019 - 12:09 PM

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View PostSalomoo, on 22 April 2019 - 12:45 AM, said:

I am the kind of average player that only rarely spends money on the game. Since joining the game in 2012, I bought 6 Premium Tanks, gold for maybe 30 € and even tried a couple of loot boxes last Christmas. But clearly I am not the kind of player the producers of this game are targetting nowadays.

 

Option 1: Spend money on premium stuff to drive a more powerful tank

Option 2: Fight a constant uphill battle doing long, frustrating grinds to tanks already powercrept by the time you reach them and serving as fodder for those Progettos, e-25, defender, or whatever new more powerfull tank line just arrived, all the while being excluded from all kinds of specials that focus on the gold-spending players.

 

P.44 Pantera is superior to Spaghetto in every way. WG don't power creep tanks, they buff new tanks so you have something to grind and buy. I have some great premium tanks, but I still often loose, so WoT is not pay to win :D

PS:
Please name those powerfull premium tanks that dont have more powerfull standard counterpart, besides E25

seXikanac #12 Posted 23 April 2019 - 12:20 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 23 April 2019 - 12:00 PM, said:

Can we please have a unicum volunteer to perform the same experiment that AngelOfAwe did 4/5 years ago?

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/460625-the-r-lion-now-f2peditedlion-f2p-experiment-finished/

 

I can join the experiment if needed

Obsessive_Compulsive #13 Posted 23 April 2019 - 11:54 PM

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View Posthoveruss, on 22 April 2019 - 09:10 AM, said:

Intelligently written post Sir.

 

Ignore the smarmy 'cut and pasters.' They love to belittle intelligent debate. It makes them feel like big men.

 

I do not see the debate... if there is one you failed to take part in it. That makes you nothing more than a random person in the crowd shouting nonsense...

 

I am a big man and I am sitting on you.



hoveruss #14 Posted 24 April 2019 - 09:39 AM

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View PostObsessive_Compulsive, on 23 April 2019 - 10:54 PM, said:

 

I do not see the debate... if there is one you failed to take part in it. That makes you nothing more than a random person in the crowd shouting nonsense...

 

I am a big man and I am sitting on you.

 

And there it is! x

pecopad #15 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:29 AM

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I think the Op is assuming WoT is a tier 8 only game...Play tier 10, or tier 5's, then according to your definition, WoT stops being a P2W game.

 

I actually think that if you have to pay to win, then you are not good enough, just like the rest of us, because the good players in WoT, the ones in good clans, then never paid a cent in this game.


Edited by pecopad, 24 April 2019 - 10:29 AM.


Jauhesammutin #16 Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:18 AM

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View PostSalomoo, on 21 April 2019 - 11:45 PM, said:

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The game is free and can be totally enjoyed if played for free.

 

Free to play players aren't supposed to play freely at T10. If F2P players would get profit from T10 then nobody would buy premium time or tanks.

The economy is expensive in the high tears for that exact reason. F2P players populate the lower tiers. Once you realize that the game is free, but not everything in the game is free, you can start to enjoy the game.

 

As a F2P player don't push at tier 10. Stay at 4-6 and enjoy the game there. 

 

This game evolves. Like all games do after this many years. If you don't enjoy the new game then there is really nothing you can do. 



Salomoo #17 Posted 25 April 2019 - 09:23 PM

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View PostJauhesammutin, on 24 April 2019 - 10:18 AM, said:

The game is free and can be totally enjoyed if played for free.

 

Free to play players aren't supposed to play freely at T10. If F2P players would get profit from T10 then nobody would buy premium time or tanks.

The economy is expensive in the high tears for that exact reason. F2P players populate the lower tiers. Once you realize that the game is free, but not everything in the game is free, you can start to enjoy the game.

 

As a F2P player don't push at tier 10. Stay at 4-6 and enjoy the game there. 

 

This game evolves. Like all games do after this many years. If you don't enjoy the new game then there is really nothing you can do. 

 

What you describe was the situation 6 years ago. That was fine. And I actually played along, buying a couple of premium tanks to afford the T8-T10.

 

Back then, if you didn't have enough credits to play your T8-T10, you couldn't play your T8-T10. You could then buy premium time or a premium tank to get credits and play again. Or you could play a lot of low tier and only very little high tier. It was a simple and fairly honest system.

 

Nowadays it is not just the repair and upkeep for the tank that costs credits and therefore indirectly money. We have gold ammo, premium consumables, camouflage, bonds, crew training and increased power creep that all cost money directly or indirectly. Theoretically you can still play without all that, but it is harder.

 

In short: Back in the day you had a sort-of "pay to play" for T8-T10. Now you have the "pay to play" for T8-T10 plus a "pay more to win easier" for all tiers.

 

Combine that with the fact that you have a sh*tload of stuff trying to constantly nudge you to spend more and more money and you have a game that evolved to the worse and no longer resembles what it used to be.

 


Edited by Salomoo, 25 April 2019 - 09:24 PM.


Jauhesammutin #18 Posted 26 April 2019 - 08:59 AM

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View PostSalomoo, on 25 April 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

 

What you describe was the situation 6 years ago. That was fine. And I actually played along, buying a couple of premium tanks to afford the T8-T10.

 

Back then, if you didn't have enough credits to play your T8-T10, you couldn't play your T8-T10. You could then buy premium time or a premium tank to get credits and play again. Or you could play a lot of low tier and only very little high tier. It was a simple and fairly honest system.

 

Nowadays it is not just the repair and upkeep for the tank that costs credits and therefore indirectly money. We have gold ammo, premium consumables, camouflage, bonds, crew training and increased power creep that all cost money directly or indirectly. Theoretically you can still play without all that, but it is harder.

 

In short: Back in the day you had a sort-of "pay to play" for T8-T10. Now you have the "pay to play" for T8-T10 plus a "pay more to win easier" for all tiers.

 

Combine that with the fact that you have a sh*tload of stuff trying to constantly nudge you to spend more and more money and you have a game that evolved to the worse and no longer resembles what it used to be.

 

 

I started playing 5½ years ago so I can't confirm that "6 years ago".

 

When I started gold ammo and premium consumables were available for credits. So I don't see any difference in there. The game has a larger variety of tanks so some of them have a bad pen (TVP, AMX 30B, T-54) for their tier. Accuracy nerf did make sniping a bit harder, I agree.

 

Camo costed a lot more. If I remember correctly it was 250k for 30 days. So for example if you wanted to play 4 tanks it costed 1 million credits for a month. While today it costs 75k for 100 battles. So 4 set of camos for 400 battles would cost 300k. That's 13 battles per day for a month. I think that's enough for most players, and they don't expire if you don't play.

Also we get reward camos from various missions which we can use in multiple tanks for free.

 

I don't quite understand why you bring up bonds. They don't have any effect on credit balance. Sure you get more of them if you play at T10, but until they roll out the bond shop they are pretty much useless.

 

Crew training hasn't changed in ages. But nowadays you have crew XP boosters along with everything else, so it's much faster to train crews.

 

Overall it's much easier to get credits and XP these days. You have multiple different gamemodes and events for grinding. Like Frontlines for example. WG is changing premium time because using free XP/credit boosters you get the same deal.






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