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Medium Tanks Rebalance: In the Pursuit of Excellence


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iKnewIT #301 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:04 AM

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1. We all know that 430 and 430U are not balanced now. So... some changes are necessary and inevitable. Are these promoted changes correct enough? I can't say, because I do not know. Maybe...

2. The three other tanks are very similar to each other now. So this attempt to split their characteristics is welcome. Are they correct enough? I do not know...  (I hope so. I bought Leo five months ago, because it was researched long ago and there were discounts and I had enough silver for it too. After these changes I think I'll try to play with it at last.)


Edited by iKnewIT, 24 April 2019 - 11:42 AM.


Vasqes #302 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:06 AM

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Stb will be unplayable even more than now. I don't know what's the point of nerfing this tank. but. well it is your game. 

ConductiveMetal #303 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:09 AM

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View Postadameitas, on 24 April 2019 - 11:51 AM, said:

But what is that good about? I see only 440 alpha but in nowadays wot that do not impress anymore. Many other things about this tank are average compare with other t10 tanks. Many very good players say it is a bad tank. I can agree it is balanced in some way. Has one very good thing - alpha. And one very bad - gun dep. Everything else is more or less average. Personally i wouldnt call this tank good in any terms instead i would say that some people simply like it. Like me liking wz-120 despite fact that a lot of players call it one of the worst t9. 

08:53 Added after 1 minute

 

or simply like it. If tank perfectly suit player he might have better score in it then in OP tank.

Well, it's an all-rounder tbh. You can snipe, you can brawl, and yes it has 440 alpha, which is very nice for a MT. Decent armor and view range, camouflage works out pretty well too. Even the speed is good. I was just saying from MY experience that the tank does not need any changes since it's OVERALL good. Unlike someone who just called me stupid, even though he never touched the line and doesn't know what he's talking about... Again, not every tank needs to be made op, just so that EVERYONE can play it. Every tank has its playstyle, and you adapt. 121 is good as it is, since it's nothing THAT bad about it. You just need a good crew and the right equipment for it. Also, brains... and RNGesus to be on your side. :P



etody77 #304 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:11 AM

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So...

430 and 430U need to be nerfed, not to the ground, just a little

for the moment they are too strong for mediums

Played only 6 battles in 430U and yes, it's a good feeling to bounce even gold ammo from tier 10 TD's

WG will buff STA-1...a good tier 8 tank, and STA-2, aother good one

by nerfing STB almost nobody will play japanese MT line, so...buffs ontier 8 uselless

And without bufs on tier 6-7 japs MT...they need big love

The subject is about medium tanks rebalance so...KV-13....is russian, and is crap, unless he got a better gun

 



prohunter00 #305 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:12 AM

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View Postadameitas, on 24 April 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:

or simply like it. If tank perfectly suit player he might have better score in it then in OP tank.

You are right, but they don't have to ofend others just because they think they're right. 



Simona2k #306 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:13 AM

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interesting

prohunter00 #307 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:20 AM

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View PostConductiveMetal, on 24 April 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

Unlike someone who just called me stupid

Are you serious? You and the other guy, (unicum wannabe i suppose) started throwing insults left and right because i had a different thoughts about your beloved 121.And now you feel offended? 



vuque #308 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:22 AM

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Hello commanders,

 

About the STB-1, we would like to add that;

 

  • We improved and strengthened the frontal armor around the gun, so the STB-1 got rid of the vulnerable weak spot.
  • We also improved the turret armor and fixed some similar weak spots, making it harder to penetrate.

 

It should be noted that these changes are not yet final, and more may happen after supertests. Make sure to follow the news and good luck at the battlefield!

 

 

Before;

Before.png

 

After;

After.png



Piroger #309 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:27 AM

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The penetration changes on the STB-1 will make the tank unplayable I think, at least as a close quarter combat vehicle. When in close combat you often face the enemy frontally, hence you need a SOLID penetration.

About the proposed suspension on the STB-1: I think it's pointless, you don't need good depression close quarter combat.

 

The nerf to the obj 430U is totally misplaced! It's the armor that makes this tank OP and idiot proof!


Edited by Piroger, 24 April 2019 - 10:32 AM.


ConductiveMetal #310 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:35 AM

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View Postprohunter00, on 24 April 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

Are you serious? You and the other guy, (unicum wannabe i suppose) started throwing insults left and right because i had a different thoughts about your beloved 121.And now you feel offended? 

 

Offended? You're the only one here feeling offended... you know you're not right and you still want to argue... Also, throwing insults was not my intention, but you've made it clear you want to be insulted, since you're talking trash about a tank you haven't even tried to play. Again, it's normal to express your opinion about a thing, after you tried it. Not before, after. It's pointless to talk to people like you, so I'll just stop here. May you have a prosperous life and a wonderful day! :honoring: 

KanonenVogel19 #311 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:49 AM

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View Postvuque, on 24 April 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

Hello commanders,

 

About the STB-1, we would like to add that;

 

  • We improved and strengthened the frontal armor around the gun, so the STB-1 got rid of the vulnerable weak spot.
  • We also improved the turret armor and fixed some similar weak spots, making it harder to penetrate.

 

It should be noted that these changes are not yet final, and more may happen after supertests. Make sure to follow the news and good luck at the battlefield!

 

 

Before;

Before.png

 

After;

After.png

 

What I don't understand is, both Leopard 1 and STB-1 are so weak right now, why can't you just buff them without the nerfs? It's not like any of these buffs are massive. By compensating the buffs with nerfs, you're effectively ending up on square 1 instead of actually buffing the vehicles.


Edited by KanonenVogel19, 24 April 2019 - 10:52 AM.


lkstamenov #312 Posted 24 April 2019 - 10:54 AM

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View PostLandserSkin, on 23 April 2019 - 02:15 PM, said:

"Object 430 and 430U are rarely seen in battle!"

*nerfs Obj 430*

Yes that will make it more playable and more used by players. I'm sorry but you ruined one of the few worthwhile and enjoyable tier 9's.

 

I am tired of being attacked by Object 430/U and not able to penetrate it with Tier 8. There should be less of those on the battlefield. Leopard 1 is not popular but after this fix should be. At least it can be penetrated easily.

 

Please also nerf the Gold shell spam. For example - play the Maus or Type 5 and everyone switches to gold which makes the armor useless.


Edited by lkstamenov, 24 April 2019 - 11:00 AM.


davidsnoek1 #313 Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:03 AM

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THX wargaming, steps in the good direction in my opinion, 

buff the Leopard 1 and the amx 3 B at first. I believe they need the buffs asap.

 

 



adameitas #314 Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:15 AM

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View PostConductiveMetal, on 24 April 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

Well, it's an all-rounder tbh. You can snipe, you can brawl, and yes it has 440 alpha, which is very nice for a MT. Decent armor and view range, camouflage works out pretty well too. Even the speed is good. I was just saying from MY experience that the tank does not need any changes since it's OVERALL good. Unlike someone who just called me stupid, even though he never touched the line and doesn't know what he's talking about... Again, not every tank needs to be made op, just so that EVERYONE can play it. Every tank has its playstyle, and you adapt. 121 is good as it is, since it's nothing THAT bad about it. You just need a good crew and the right equipment for it. Also, brains... and RNGesus to be on your side. :P

 

hmm but how can it be all-rounder when it has such a bad gun dep? As such tank i see for example patton. You say armor, VR, camo, speed are decent,well,good. But how can it be when 1/3 or even more t10 meds have better? Sure you can brawl you can snipe but how often and how good will it work? I would agree about all this if we would talk about 430u that can snipe like a boss or hold 5k damage in full t10 mm but 121.. Anyway glad you like that tank but you didnt change my opinion:)

LordSkyFury #315 Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:20 AM

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View PostKanonenVogel19, on 24 April 2019 - 10:49 AM, said:

 

What I don't understand is, both Leopard 1 and STB-1 are so weak right now, why can't you just buff them without the nerfs? It's not like any of these buffs are massive. By compensating the buffs with nerfs, you're effectively ending up on square 1 instead of actually buffing the vehicles.

 

278mm high velocity AP shells with improved gun handling and higher alpha dmg for Leopard 1 is massive buff to its sniper abilities. STB-1 is getting changed completely so you cannot judge its performance without testing. It is gaining lot of agility which mean easier work with terrain and peaking on different places.



adameitas #316 Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:21 AM

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View Postvuque, on 24 April 2019 - 09:22 AM, said:

Hello commanders,

 

About the STB-1, we would like to add that;

 

  • We improved and strengthened the frontal armor around the gun, so the STB-1 got rid of the vulnerable weak spot.
  • We also improved the turret armor and fixed some similar weak spots, making it harder to penetrate.

 

It should be noted that these changes are not yet final, and more may happen after supertests. Make sure to follow the news and good luck at the battlefield!

 

 

Before;

Before.png

 

After;

After.png

 

well but you are planning changes that can completely change tank. Many of those changes most of players didnt even ask.. And what about type-61? By these changes those tanks will have different gameplay. I thought you are trying to avoid such situations. Or does it mean you plan to change type-61 too? On top of that atm it seems t9 might have better pen and better alpha??
10:25 Added after 4 minutes

View PostLordSkyFury, on 24 April 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

 

278mm high velocity AP shells with improved gun handling and higher alpha dmg for Leopard 1 is massive buff to its sniper abilities. STB-1 is getting changed completely so you cannot judge its performance without testing. It is gaining lot of agility which mean easier work with terrain and peaking on different pl

View PostLordSkyFury, on 24 April 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

 

278mm high velocity AP shells with improved gun handling and higher alpha dmg for Leopard 1 is massive buff to its sniper abilities. STB-1 is getting changed completely so you cannot judge its performance without testing. It is gaining lot of agility which mean easier work with terrain and peaking on different places.

 

but we dont know what will be hidden gun stats. Atm Leo gun looks amazing too until you dont try to shoot..


LordSkyFury #317 Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:26 AM

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View Postadameitas, on 24 April 2019 - 11:21 AM, said:

 

well but you are planning changes that can completely change tank. Many of those changes most of players didnt even ask.. And what about type-61? By these changes those tanks will have different gameplay. I thought you are trying to avoid such situations. Or does it mean you plan to change type-61 too? On top of that atm it seems t9 might have better pen and better alpha??

 

As you can see in title entire branch is going to be changed. It is really that hard to read all text?



etody77 #318 Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:36 AM

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View Postlkstamenov, on 24 April 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

 

 

Please also nerf the Gold shell spam. For example - play the Maus or Type 5 and everyone switches to gold which makes the armor useless.

 

I did almost all missions with damage block in my old Type 5, before being buffed

now i can do no mission for HT...

if WG dont't rework special ammo, he must rework campaign missions

 



KanonenVogel19 #319 Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:37 AM

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View PostLordSkyFury, on 24 April 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

278mm high velocity AP shells with improved gun handling and higher alpha dmg for Leopard 1 is massive buff to its sniper abilities. STB-1 is getting changed completely so you cannot judge its performance without testing. It is gaining lot of agility which mean easier work with terrain and peaking on different places.

 

But you're still missing the point. I don't think that anyone complains about the buffs, but rather the nerfs. Considering how Leopard 1 is performing today, they could easily add all these buffs without any nerfs:

 

 

And it would not be OP. What they're doing now is to compensate the buffs with nerfs, which will cause them to end up on square 1 again, i.e. there will be no effective buff of this vehicle, it will still be underperforming.

 

For example, I gladly take AP on my Leopard 1 rather than APCR, but I don't understand why they need to nerf the projectile speed? They could still keep the AP round at 1478 m/s. Same goes for the alpha, it's nice that they increase the alpha, but they don't need to nerf the reload speed. Same goes with speed, it's nice that they increase the speed, but they don't need to nerf the power to weight ratio.

 

Then we have the accuracy value. Seriusly, 0.01 less dispersion, what's that worth? We won't even notice a difference.



lnfernaI #320 Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:42 AM

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View PostKanonenVogel19, on 24 April 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

Maybe you should focus more on data rather than being offensive? :)

 

I look at this data literally every day or every second day. It practically does not change. Probably might have to do with the fact that nature of the tank isn't "reward by going full retard".

The data doesn't concern me, simply because I do well in the tank,and most others do not. The tank performs bad,not because it's the tank bad,but because it's the playerbase bad. In an age of the game, where skill is less dominant, and variety of broken tanks decide the game, this is just as evident to me, as the sun being a star.

 

Also what do you mean ''offensive''? It's a simple reaction to a person,which throws around assumed claims and nonsense. If anything, they provoked it.


Edited by lnfernaI, 24 April 2019 - 11:45 AM.





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