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Medium tank rebalance

medium rebalance

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XxKuzkina_MatxX #81 Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:27 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 24 April 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:

Engine power nerf is mentioned in the article.

 

Yes i read that but no mention of these changes whatsoever in the RU article or the ST stats that followed. Take a look at that...

 

https://worldoftanks...t-10-rebalance/

 



Strizi #82 Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:13 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 24 April 2019 - 09:32 AM, said:

 

A sniper role tank with the best dispersion in the game doesn't really make sense. You want good dispersions for tanks that are supposed to shoot on the move a lot, so wheeled vehicles, lights, brawlers basically.  Snipers need (IMO) accuracy, fast aim times, high pen, high shell velocity and alpha/burst damage.  So you are getting that with these changes, in terms of moving to a spot, stopping, seeing a target at long range, hitting it, and penning it, with a decent alpha punch, this Leo 1 is going to be the best out of the mediums for it by a clear margin, which it isn't now. 

 

I think the slightly reduced dispersion is probably enough when coupled with the increased aim time. Not to mention as well the whole gun package has basically improved. 

 

The loss of the shell velocity for an APCR round is minimal, no one will notice that and considering you gain penetration and normalisation, that new AP round, would be like effectively giving the tank 290 APCR. It's a very strong round when you account for all the characteristics. Highest penetration of any med or heavy, almost as high or higher than several tier 9 and 10 TDs, whilst having much better dispersions. 

 

Plus you have the added alpha as well, which means it can trade better in unfavourable brawling situations. So whilst the changes are more designed for a sniper role, it does actually make the tank better in unfavoured roles, if you know how to brawl in paper tanks, if you get Paris or Ruinberg or whatever and you have to get your flank moving, having 420 alpha, not 390 and 278 AP pen not 268 APCR is quite a big advantage, as is the faster aim time and dispersions. 

 

So overall the tank is definitely going to be better, its going to be the best sniper medium at tier 10 by a clear margin (whereas now its just the best sniper by a little bit which doesn't compensate for its badness in other areas). Plus in unfavourable situations, it's going to be a little more effective as well. 

 

I'd agree though as well that the tank doesn't need those other nerfs, the HP, reverse speed, the hp/ton and traverse changes are just not needed IMO.

 

Plus I'd agree you could also push the accuracy more to like 0.24/0.25. 

 

You have to remember as well that your suggested changes would make tanks like the K-91, Cent AX etc. pretty much useless in comparison. 

 

 

Yeh fair enough, we'll have to see how good the turret armour is and how effective the suspension is.  Those will make or break the tank, but again I feel like the tank didn't need so much of its other stats nerfed down when its currently not a very good tank. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course there is room to argue about apcr or ap or the dispersion values but they should really buff the accuracy to 0.25. Everyone who plays leopard or e50m knows that sometimes you just cant hit where you aimed at so 0.01 will not change enough. What they should atleast do is to scrap these "counternerfs" that are not needed.

tajj7 #83 Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:16 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 24 April 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

 

Yes i read that but no mention of these changes whatsoever in the RU article or the ST stats that followed. Take a look at that...

 

https://worldoftanks...t-10-rebalance/

 

 

Well hopefully there is no power to weight nerfs, and hopefully as they test those others nerfs go as well. 

Zoltan1251 #84 Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:17 PM

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View PostStrizi, on 24 April 2019 - 12:13 PM, said:

 

Of course there is room to argue about apcr or ap or the dispersion values but they should really buff the accuracy to 0.25. Everyone who plays leopard or e50m knows that sometimes you just cant hit where you aimed at so 0.01 will not change enough. What they should atleast do is to scrap these "counternerfs" that are not needed.

 

again... you are completely senseless and just want straight up mega buff without even thinking about impact on the game.... with 0,25 accuracy Leopard would be on the level of Swedish TDs.... why would you play swedish TDs when you have a lot more mobile platform to work with?....

Strizi #85 Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:21 PM

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View PostZoltan1251, on 24 April 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

 

again... you are completely senseless and just want straight up mega buff without even thinking about impact on the game.... with 0,25 accuracy Leopard would be on the level of Swedish TDs.... why would you play swedish TDs when you have a lot more mobile platform to work with?....

 

People moan when i say give him good dispersion and so on, then i say just give him the accuracy and people moan too... Do you really think leopard will be too strong? He still got no armor and nobody will be afraid to make a push on him. Strv got this nasty bouncy armor, much better camo and dpm so i dont really get your problem.

tajj7 #86 Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:21 PM

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View PostZoltan1251, on 24 April 2019 - 11:17 AM, said:

 

again... you are completely senseless and just want straight up mega buff without even thinking about impact on the game.... with 0,25 accuracy Leopard would be on the level of Swedish TDs.... why would you play swedish TDs when you have a lot more mobile platform to work with?....

 

Camo, pen, zero dispersion, DPM and the ability to bounce stuff. If you want to reliably pen stuff from range without getting spotted, the Strv is going to be far superior than the Leo 1, even if it got an accuracy buff to a similar level. 

 

I doubt there would be much issue giving the Leo 1 0.25 base accuracy. 

 

Considering they have similar roles, and the Leo 1 has the flexibility of a turret, the Leo 1 is a long long way behind the performance of the Strv 103b -

 

Posted Image


Edited by tajj7, 24 April 2019 - 12:24 PM.


Dorander #87 Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:26 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 24 April 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

 

Yet we have the Skorpion G, a tier 8 tank with similar afflictions. In the entire 2 years of crap MM with 90% of the battles being in tier 10, it was the most played tank in the EU cluster. Yes there are other factors to this like credits income but it was not just the most played premium, it was the most played tank.

 

Sniper mediums work, not as good on every map but they definitely can be useful if you control the urge to get closer! :)

 

 

The mobility nerfs are the traverse speed (by 6° ) and the reverse speed (by 3 km/h). Not really that significant and there is no nerf to the specific power or the engine power. Turret traverse is also buffed to 41.7°/s from 37.5°/s, some gimmicky crap that means next to nothing in battle! :)

 

Actually since wheelies I've gotten a renewed appreciation for turret traverse. Also thinking out loud, if your turret traverse is faster, that means your turret is stationary with your gun towards your aimpoint faster, which means shorter turret movement and thus less bloom and subsequently slightly reduced aiming time? That might be negligable though.

 

SkorpG, like other paper tier 8s, are tier 8s which drastically affects spotranges and relative alpha. SkorpG has an alpha of 490 at tier 8 vs the Leopard 1 now getting 420 at tier 10. Spotranges not commonly exceeding 445 at tier 8 means you can take a shot with the SkorpG at 445m and stand to not get spotted for your efforts where at tier 10 it's a virtually guaranteed spot on fire. It's not a comparable tank, even though it is also a sniper and it has playstyle similarities.

 

There's no listed value for the nerf to the PTW ratio, but it is stated in the article, emphasis mine:

 

Due to such a serious improvement in its characteristics, we will have to reduce some other parameters which have less impact on its battle role. In particular, we’re reducing:  

  • Reverse speed by 3 km/h, to 20 km/h  
  • HP pool by 100 points, to 1850 points
  • Power-to-weight ratio

 

Since the tank's weight is not likely to be the changed factor this is either a mistake or the mistake is an unlisted engine power nerf. (Incidentally I didn't mean to put this in bold but for some reason I can't turn it off 'cause forum says it's already off).



Dr_Oolen #88 Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:31 PM

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View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

Actually since wheelies I've gotten a renewed appreciation for turret traverse. Also thinking out loud, if your turret traverse is faster, that means your turret is stationary with your gun towards your aimpoint faster, which means shorter turret movement and thus less bloom and subsequently slightly reduced aiming time? That might be negligable though.

 

SkorpG, like other paper tier 8s, are tier 8s which drastically affects spotranges and relative alpha. SkorpG has an alpha of 490 at tier 8 vs the Leopard 1 now getting 420 at tier 10. Spotranges not commonly exceeding 445 at tier 8 means you can take a shot with the SkorpG at 445m and stand to not get spotted for your efforts where at tier 10 it's a virtually guaranteed spot on fire. It's not a comparable tank, even though it is also a sniper and it has playstyle similarities.

 

There's no listed value for the nerf to the PTW ratio, but it is stated in the article, emphasis mine:

 

Due to such a serious improvement in its characteristics, we will have to reduce some other parameters which have less impact on its battle role. In particular, we’re reducing:  

  • Reverse speed by 3 km/h, to 20 km/h  
  • HP pool by 100 points, to 1850 points
  • Power-to-weight ratio

 

Since the tank's weight is not likely to be the changed factor this is either a mistake or the mistake is an unlisted engine power nerf. (Incidentally I didn't mean to put this in bold but for some reason I can't turn it off 'cause forum says it's already off).

 

Wrong. Faster turret traverse = worse dispersion overall. Because the turret dispersion value basically (not that simple) multiplies turret traverse speed. So with faster turret traverse you will have larger aiming circle after moving the turret. The increase in dispersion is generally bigger than is the amount of time you save by turning turret faster. But overall its probably the same overall... you will start aiming faster, but will start from worse dispersion...

 

Basically, it certainly isnt a buff in terms of aiming/snapshotting.


Edited by Dr_Oolen, 24 April 2019 - 12:33 PM.


Geno1isme #89 Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:33 PM

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View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

Since the tank's weight is not likely to be the changed factor this is either a mistake or the mistake is an unlisted engine power nerf. (Incidentally I didn't mean to put this in bold but for some reason I can't turn it off 'cause forum says it's already off).

 

Until clarification I'd side with mistake in the EU article, given how confusing the listing of the STB-1 changes are/were compared with the NA article. Maybe someone saw the reduction in "HP" and concluded that it's an engine nerf. WG communication/translation is often crappy like that.

depressed_jellyfish #90 Posted 24 April 2019 - 12:34 PM

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View PostZoltan1251, on 24 April 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

 

again... you are completely senseless and just want straight up mega buff without even thinking about impact on the game.... with 0,25 accuracy Leopard would be on the level of Swedish TDs.... why would you play swedish TDs when you have a lot more mobile platform to work with?....

 

Because Swedish TDs ain't walking ammo racks?

They also have trollish armor! :) 



XxKuzkina_MatxX #91 Posted 24 April 2019 - 01:05 PM

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View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

Actually since wheelies I've gotten a renewed appreciation for turret traverse. Also thinking out loud, if your turret traverse is faster, that means your turret is stationary with your gun towards your aimpoint faster, which means shorter turret movement and thus less bloom and subsequently slightly reduced aiming time? That might be negligible though.

 

It's nice to have when tracking high speed targets but turning faster actually means worse bloom. The faster the tank go and the faster the turret turns, the bigger the bloom and the longer it takes to aim. There is a limit to that of course which would be the ultra hidden stats called: max. dispersion on hull movement, max. dispersion on turret rotation and max. dispersion on hull rotation. The actual aiming time is a combination of all 3 factors. Buffing the accuracy (0.27) is direct buff to the gun handling since it's the biggest factor in the equation.

 

View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

SkorpG, like other paper tier 8s, are tier 8s which drastically affects spotranges and relative alpha. SkorpG has an alpha of 490 at tier 8 vs the Leopard 1 now getting 420 at tier 10. Spotranges not commonly exceeding 445 at tier 8 means you can take a shot with the SkorpG at 445m and stand to not get spotted for your efforts where at tier 10 it's a virtually guaranteed spot on fire. It's not a comparable tank, even though it is also a sniper and it has playstyle similarities.

 

The Skorpion was played all this time in tier 10 battles mostly against those tanks with very good view range and devastating fire power.

 

No camo, slow traverse and slow turret but bigger alpha and bigger target. It's different yet very similar IMO and proves still that it can do its thing, sniping, successfully on most maps. Also within tier 10 mediums you wouldn't find a lot of them having enough armor to withstand tier 10 tank's firepower so sniping presents itself as a viable play style for a lot of them not just the leopard.

 

Being forced into this play style is a tank choice not a tank's limitation or weakness. It's the Leopard thing according to WG!

 

View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

There's no listed value for the nerf to the PTW ratio, but it is stated in the article, emphasis mine:

 

Due to such a serious improvement in its characteristics, we will have to reduce some other parameters which have less impact on its battle role. In particular, we’re reducing:  

  • Reverse speed by 3 km/h, to 20 km/h  
  • HP pool by 100 points, to 1850 points
  • Power-to-weight ratio

Since the tank's weight is not likely to be the changed factor this is either a mistake or the mistake is an unlisted engine power nerf. (Incidentally I didn't mean to put this in bold but for some reason I can't turn it off 'cause forum says it's already off).

 

It isn't mentioned anywhere in the RU article or the ST stats that followed. You don't even need to translate it, there is no 3rd bullet.

 

https://worldoftanks...t-10-rebalance/


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 24 April 2019 - 09:37 PM.


Dorander #92 Posted 24 April 2019 - 01:41 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 24 April 2019 - 12:05 PM, said:

 

It's nice to have when tracking high speed targets but turning faster actually means worse bloom. The faster the tank go and the faster the turret turns, the bigger the bloom and the longer it takes to aim. There is a limit to that of course which would be the ultra hidden stats called: max. dispersion on hull movement, max. dispersion on turret rotation and max. dispersion on hull rotation. The actual aiming time is a combination of all 3 factors. Buffing the accuracy (0.27) is direct buff to the gun handling since it's the biggest factor in the equation.

 

 

The Skorpion was played all this time in tier 10 battles mostly against those tanks with very good view range and devastating fire power.

 

No camo, slow traverse and slow turret but bigger alpha and bigger target. It's different yet very similar IMO and proves still that it can do its thing, sniping, successfully on most maps. Also within tier 10 mediums you wouldn't find a lot of them having enough armor to withstand tier 10 tank's firepower so sniping presents itself as a viable play style for a lot of them not just the leopard.

 

Being forced into this play style is a tank choice not a tank's limitation or weakness. It's the Leopard thing according to WG!

 

 

Stubborn forum! :)

 

It isn't mentioned anywhere in the RU article or the ST stats that followed. You don't even need to translate it, there is no 3rd bullet.

 

https://worldoftanks...t-10-rebalance/

 

AFAIK there is such a thing as max bloom. I'm not knowledgable enough about these stats to know how they exactly relate when it comes to traverse, I know going faster means more bloom but I don't know if that automatically means increasing the max values also means more bloom, especially in the case of traverse.

 

Ther Skorp G would see a maximum number of 3 tier tanks out of 15. I agree that for many meds keeping distance is a good thing until mop-up phase but the ones that need to do that at top tier are all auto(re)loaders, who at all stages are more dangerous than the Leo 1. The ones that have armour, don't need to snipe and can brawl decently or even very well.

 

Also even the ones that are a little armoured have more armour than the Leo 1 for whom virtually every gun it'll face is an overmatch. 30mm armour means calibre 90+ guns overmatch it so barring a few spots that means no lucky bounces.

 

Thanks for the reference, going to assume the text in the EU forum is a mistake then.



thestaggy #93 Posted 24 April 2019 - 01:54 PM

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Honestly, I never saw why people rave about the 430U. Totally useless in my hands. Give me my 140 any day.

 

I'm not great at tier 10, but in over 100 battles each my 140's win rate is 62% and my 430U's is 46%. Explain that to me.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #94 Posted 24 April 2019 - 02:37 PM

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View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

AFAIK there is such a thing as max bloom. I'm not knowledgeable enough about these stats to know how they exactly relate when it comes to traverse, I know going faster means more bloom but I don't know if that automatically means increasing the max values also means more bloom, especially in the case of traverse.

 

Basically going faster, hull or turret, means more bloom but there is a hard limit for these values. The major factor in this equation though is the accuracy number.

 

View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

There Skorp G would see a maximum number of 3 tier tanks out of 15. I agree that for many meds keeping distance is a good thing until mop-up phase but the ones that need to do that at top tier are all auto(re)loaders, who at all stages are more dangerous than the Leo 1. The ones that have armour, don't need to snipe and can brawl decently or even very well.

 

Also even the ones that are a little armoured have more armour than the Leo 1 for whom virtually every gun it'll face is an overmatch. 30mm armour means calibre 90+ guns overmatch it so barring a few spots that means no lucky bounces.

 

Thanks for the reference, going to assume the text in the EU forum is a mistake then.

 

Meds aren't supposed to tank hits, take a look at these...

 

T62a:

 

Obj. 140:

 

CAX:

 

Patton:

 

E50m:

 

This is the armor, or the lack thereof, against 330mm HEAT prevalent in tier 10 battles. What difference does it make if you were hit in any of those tanks or in the Leopard?

 

Bullying lower tier tanks or being successful in full tier 10 battles depends on your play style for tanks like the Leopard and using its strengths to the maximum same as with autoloaders and hull down tanks. No amount of accuracy or DPM will help a Leopard in a melee same as no amount of HP or armor will help a Maus in open grounds.

 

And regardless of the amount of armor, these are different mediums with different roles and in turn different characteristics. Making them all the same ridge line fighter, hull down beast or pseudo heavy defeats the purpose of having all these tanks!



Dorander #95 Posted 24 April 2019 - 02:57 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 24 April 2019 - 01:37 PM, said:

 

Basically going faster, hull or turret, means more bloom but there is a hard limit for these values. The major factor in this equation though is the accuracy number.

 

 

Meds aren't supposed to tank hits, take a look at these...

 

T62a:

 

 

Obj. 140:

 

 

CAX:

 

 

Patton:

 

 

E50m:

 

 

This is the armor, or the lack thereof, against 330mm HEAT prevalent in tier 10 battles. What difference does it make if you were hit in any of those tanks or in the Leopard?

 

Bullying lower tier tanks or being successful in full tier 10 battles depends on your play style for tanks like the Leopard and using its strengths to the maximum same as with autoloaders and hull down tanks. No amount of accuracy or DPM will help a Leopard in a melee same as no amount of HP or armor will help a Maus in open grounds.

 

And regardless of the amount of armor, these are different mediums with different roles and in turn different characteristics. Making them all the same ridge line fighter, hull down beast or pseudo heavy defeats the purpose of having all these tanks!

 

Going by those pictures the difference is bouncing about 1/3rd to half the shots depending on the tank in question. It's also a bit silly to pretend that all anyone fires at tier 10 is 330mm HEAT shells, it's a simple fact that not everyone fires gold.

 

A Leopard can't bully anything. An auto(re)loader can, by sheer damage output. People respect a tank's ability to hurt theirs, the hurtfactor of an auto(re)loader is far higher than that of a Leopard 1. Being able to deal a lot of damage in melee helps any tank including the Leopard, just as having armour helps a Maus in the field. I've used my Maus to do field charges on Malinovka against a TD line. I've charged the 1-2 line on Prok. The armour only starts to fail on lucky shots or when you get close enough for people to consistently hit your weakspots, barring of course silly situations like insisting you drive into 5 tier X TDs.

 

I agree with your last statement completely, but that's exactly what the Leo is in the current meta: its purpose defeated. There is a reason for the Rasha med dominance. I'd love more viable variety, but it's hard to succesfully implement, hence my scepticism about these buffs.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #96 Posted 24 April 2019 - 03:23 PM

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View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 03:57 PM, said:

Going by those pictures the difference is bouncing about 1/3rd to half the shots depending on the tank in question. It's also a bit silly to pretend that all anyone fires at tier 10 is 330mm HEAT shells, it's a simple fact that not everyone fires gold.

 

Going by those pictures it's as dangerous for any tier 10 medium to engage in a melee and try to tank shots. Gold or not, tier 10s often have enough pen to go through these tank without much trouble especially when a medium is out of its element.

 

View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 03:57 PM, said:

A Leopard can't bully anything. An auto(re)loader can, by sheer damage output. People respect a tank's ability to hurt theirs, the hurtfactor of an auto(re)loader is far higher than that of a Leopard 1. Being able to deal a lot of damage in melee helps any tank including the Leopard, just as having armour helps a Maus in the field. I've used my Maus to do field charges on Malinovka against a TD line. I've charged the 1-2 line on Prok. The armour only starts to fail on lucky shots or when you get close enough for people to consistently hit your weakspots, barring of course silly situations like insisting you drive into 5 tier X TDs.

 

Sure it can bully if used to its strength, accurate gun, the ability to snipe and now the higher alpha. If you don't mind i will tell you a trick to be more effective with such a tank...

 

  • Be extremely passive, wait and then wait some more. This tank excels late in the fight when everyone is tired, lost some HP and most important lost most of their focus. You're a paper TD until proven otherwise.

 

View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 03:57 PM, said:

I agree with your last statement completely, but that's exactly what the Leo is in the current meta: its purpose defeated. There is a reason for the Rasha med dominance. I'd love more viable variety, but it's hard to successfully implement, hence my skepticism about these buffs.

 

That answers my question in post #54, you don't like the highlighting of the Leopard's sniper role.

 

Playing a tier 10 medium like that sure can be boring and frustrating sometimes but it can be rewarding too when you **** their **** up from your safe perch without breaking a sweat. :)

 

First step: buy a T 34-85M!



Dorander #97 Posted 24 April 2019 - 03:53 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 24 April 2019 - 02:23 PM, said:

 

Going by those pictures it's as dangerous for any tier 10 medium to engage in a melee and try to tank shots. Gold or not, tier 10s often have enough pen to go through these tank without much trouble especially when a medium is out of its element.

 

 

Did you check the pictures with corresponding standard shells on the tanks? I'm willing to bet they won't pen these tanks nearly so easily.

 

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 24 April 2019 - 02:23 PM, said:

Sure it can bully if used to its strength, accurate gun, the ability to snipe and now the higher alpha. If you don't mind i will tell you a trick to be more effective with such a tank...

 

  • Be extremely passive, wait and then wait some more. This tank excels late in the fight when everyone is tired, lost some HP and most important lost most of their focus. You're a paper TD until proven otherwise.

 

 

Yeah but at the end of the fight I'm clawing my eyes out in irritation and am halfway through a bottle of wine just to alleviate the pain of watching my teammates flounder :P


More seriously though we use a different definition for "bullying" here... I don't consider camping in the back sniping at targets of opportunity to be bullying, I consider that pressing the enemy at the front.

 

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 24 April 2019 - 02:23 PM, said:

 

That answers my question in post #54, you don't like the highlighting of the Leopard's sniper role.

 

Playing a tier 10 medium like that sure can be boring and frustrating sometimes but it can be rewarding too when you **** their **** up from your safe perch without breaking a sweat. :)

 

 

Well yes, I also actually answered your question literally that way :teethhappy:

 

The problem for me isn't that this is a question of "Is the Leopard good at being a Leopard" but "Is the Leopard good at being a tier X medium tank in World of Tanks?"


Edited by Dorander, 24 April 2019 - 03:53 PM.


Cobra6 #98 Posted 24 April 2019 - 04:07 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 23 April 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

 

Is it a buff though?, they are giving it tier 8 pen, tier 8 alpha, heavy tank accuracy and its not getting much in return.  

 

On that graphic for the STB-1, they are 8 nerfs and 10 buffs, so overall the tank, which is probably one of the worst on tier 10, is getting very minor buff, but in reality they important things like pen and alpha are getting nerfed I'd say its overall a nerf. 

 

Unless that special suspension is magic, I can't see how that STB-1 will perform any better than the old one. Plus as I said above, we are getting a special suspension, not that fast, hull down warrior medium, and its got 440 alpha and a way way better turret than the STB-1. 

 

(also anyone notice that the 30b has basically got its old pen, shell velocity, heat pen, and accuracy back, its probably the biggest winner here) 

 

Yeah I honestly do not see why it should have it's penetration nerfed or the shell speed, that is totally unnessecarry and probably only done to give the AMX30 a role which is the worst way of balancing.

 

All T10 meds should have roughly the same penetration but the gun accuracy and handling should be the balancing factor in determining the "class" of tank.

So brawlers should have slower aiming guns (aiming circle is smaller in comparison to target size) and snipers should have fast aiming guns (aiming circle is much larger in comparison to the target).

 

Basically the way it used to be in WoT where it was pretty much impossible to reliably snipe with brawling tanks (they simply missed all the shots).

 

Cobra 6



XxKuzkina_MatxX #99 Posted 24 April 2019 - 04:33 PM

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View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:

Did you check the pictures with corresponding standard shells on the tanks? I'm willing to bet they won't pen these tanks nearly so easily.

 

Against the standard rounds...

 

T62a:

 

Obj. 140:

 

CAX:

 

Patton:

 

E50m:

 

Sure the weak areas got smaller and the chance to pen lower but it's still there. If you're willing to bet your tank on a pen roll (±25%), go ahead!

 

View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:

Yeah but at the end of the fight I'm clawing my eyes out in irritation and am halfway through a bottle of wine just to alleviate the pain of watching my teammates flounder :P


More seriously though we use a different definition for "bullying" here... I don't consider camping in the back sniping at targets of opportunity to be bullying, I consider that pressing the enemy at the front.

 

That tip could help you have a good battle by playing the tank as intended, it doesn't guarantee a win. Being up there at the front line won't help you or your team so at least you can have a good game yourself! :)

 

View PostDorander, on 24 April 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:

Well yes, I also actually answered your question literally that way :teethhappy:

 

The problem for me isn't that this is a question of "Is the Leopard good at being a Leopard" but "Is the Leopard good at being a tier X medium tank in World of Tanks?"

 

Well, someone has to do it! :)

 

No, it isn't and a lot of tier 10 tanks are rubbish, been like that for years too. Will the proposed changes make it better? definitely yes.



Baldrickk #100 Posted 24 April 2019 - 05:48 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 24 April 2019 - 04:33 PM, said:

 

Against the standard rounds...

 

T62a:

 

Obj. 140:

 

CAX:

 

Patton:

 

E50m:

 

Sure the weak areas got smaller and the chance to pen lower but it's still there. If you're willing to bet your tank on a pen roll (±25%), go ahead!

 

 

That tip could help you have a good battle by playing the tank as intended, it doesn't guarantee a win. Being up there at the front line won't help you or your team so at least you can have a good game yourself! :)

 

 

Well, someone has to do it! :)

 

No, it isn't and a lot of tier 10 tanks are rubbish, been like that for years too. Will the proposed changes make it better? definitely yes.

Now we need the 430U there too.

Edit:

Hmmm...


Edited by Baldrickk, 24 April 2019 - 05:53 PM.






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