Jump to content


Ghost shells(?) and hitbox holes. Correlation = causation?


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

Dark_Cloud #1 Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:19 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18192 battles
  • 257
  • [SPL1] SPL1
  • Member since:
    03-27-2013

Way back when ghost shells were a problem, I believe it has since been fixed, but for me it's resurfaced differently to how it was.

Now I don't have a replay at hand, but this happens at such a frequency that for anyone wanting it I'll post a link later, follow the topic for any such updates.

Essentially I now have shots that once every few days I play I get these shots that, independent of aim or any other variables, don't so much ghost as just not exist. I mean I fire, and genuinely diddly nothing occurrs to the surroundings. There's no tracer, no damage, no crater, just me with one less shell and the appropriate bill for one coming up, and the reload.

Usually I can just wait it out, but this has cost my tank if not whole games more than once.

 

Next part might explain the no damage bit, the gaping holes in hitboxes. Or at least in tanks.gg, if this is not actually in the game, ignore the following.

So some parts of some tanks in tanks.gg just have whole bits that are not actually a part of the hitbox missing, such as a couple of bites of front armor and the entire rear plate of the 50TP prototype, which would mean a direct butt shot would be a direct front shot. https://tanks.gg/tank/50tp-pr/model

Do these tanks actually have whole plates just cut off? Would this explain shots just disappearing?

 

None of this should actually be taking place here but I'm grasping at straws when something is clearly up both in and out of the game.

Any explanations are obviously appreciated, but with that being the whole theme of the forum, if you can somehow legitimately twist all this into how it's because I'm bad at tonks, your creativity warrants a cookie.



Nishi_Kinuyo #2 Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:37 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 8398 battles
  • 5,665
  • [GUP] GUP
  • Member since:
    05-28-2011

Just hop into a training room with someone who has that tank and try it out.

Should be very easy to verify it if it were as simple as that.



Homer_J #3 Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:40 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31416 battles
  • 34,219
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostDark_Cloud, on 25 April 2019 - 10:19 PM, said:

 

 

Next part might explain the no damage bit, the gaping holes in hitboxes. Or at least in tanks.gg,

 

tanks.gg has had problems interpreting the model data is the past, could just be that.  I can't imagine a whole rear plate being missing and nobody noticing.

 

Just checked armour inspector and it's not missing there.

 

Posted Image


Edited by Homer_J, 25 April 2019 - 10:50 PM.


NekoPuffer_PPP #4 Posted 25 April 2019 - 10:48 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 32907 battles
  • 3,405
  • [VRTC] VRTC
  • Member since:
    09-13-2013

@OP Are you sure your internet connection is fine? Could be some misinterpretation between your game and the server.

 

I've had instances where I've disconnected for short periods of time, in the middle of which I could make the gun shoot every 2 seconds, ANY gun, without any of the shots registering on the server. I think this is caused by the shots not registering at all initially, the game is being told that and is trying to fire the shot again, but it only displays it as fired, though it really isn't.

 

If you can understand the above...I hope it helps. It's a bit of a mouthfull, I know... :unsure:



Dark_Cloud #5 Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:39 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18192 battles
  • 257
  • [SPL1] SPL1
  • Member since:
    03-27-2013

View PostPervyPastryPuffer, on 25 April 2019 - 11:48 PM, said:

@OP Are you sure your internet connection is fine? Could be some misinterpretation between your game and the server.

 

I've had instances where I've disconnected for short periods of time, in the middle of which I could make the gun shoot every 2 seconds, ANY gun, without any of the shots registering on the server. I think this is caused by the shots not registering at all initially, the game is being told that and is trying to fire the shot again, but it only displays it as fired, though it really isn't.

 

If you can understand the above...I hope it helps. It's a bit of a mouthfull, I know... :unsure:

 

My internet recently has been increasingly garbage but that has never before explained actions not translating to effects, and mind you, I am talking firing the gun in ordinary 30-60ms ping, getting the sound, recoil, shell lost, reload, and no tracers or hits to the ground or the enemy. Essentially blanks.
23:40 Added after 0 minutes

View PostHomer_J, on 25 April 2019 - 11:40 PM, said:

 

tanks.gg has had problems interpreting the model data is the past, could just be that.  I can't imagine a whole rear plate being missing and nobody noticing.

 

Just checked armour inspector and it's not missing there.

 

Posted Image

 

Might be tanks.gg failing, but this is nonetheless at minimum infuriating.

Dark_Cloud #6 Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:03 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18192 battles
  • 257
  • [SPL1] SPL1
  • Member since:
    03-27-2013

Bump, and for those interested here's a link to an example: http://wotreplays.eu...dark_cloud-t-10

The second last shot, and the one I put on the 263 just vanished into thin air, the gun shot a blank.



pecopad #7 Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:14 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 27127 battles
  • 1,685
  • [UGN] UGN
  • Member since:
    09-04-2015

Hitboxes are a modeling problem... and IMHO there are several problems with both hitboxes in tanks but also with in game stuff like houses, hills, bushes, etc.

 

Ghost Shells is a connection/lag issue.

 

Don't see any correlation causation.



Dark_Cloud #8 Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:15 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18192 battles
  • 257
  • [SPL1] SPL1
  • Member since:
    03-27-2013

View Postpecopad, on 26 April 2019 - 01:14 PM, said:

Hitboxes are a modeling problem... and IMHO there are several problems with both hitboxes in tanks but also with in game stuff like houses, hills, bushes, etc.

 

Ghost Shells is a connection/lag issue.

 

Don't see any correlation causation.

 

Does lag literally make me fire blanks?

pecopad #9 Posted 26 April 2019 - 12:19 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 27127 battles
  • 1,685
  • [UGN] UGN
  • Member since:
    09-04-2015

View PostDark_Cloud, on 26 April 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

 

Does lag literally make me fire blanks?

 

Yes... sometimes it does not even require that much lag, just a disconnection on the info between your client, the server and the tank you shoot client. 

 

Hitbox problem is like having a skin and textures that do not match the hitbox. like placing a Maus skin on a Elc, or the contrary....

 

I also think, or better hope, that some of the hitbox problems are really honeypots for aimboters... that's why I do not mind the so much.


Edited by pecopad, 26 April 2019 - 12:22 PM.


Balc0ra #10 Posted 26 April 2019 - 01:15 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 70170 battles
  • 19,061
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012
 

View PostDark_Cloud, on 26 April 2019 - 12:39 AM, said:

 

My internet recently has been increasingly garbage but that has never before explained actions not translating to effects, and mind you, I am talking firing the gun in ordinary 30-60ms ping, getting the sound, recoil, shell lost, reload, and no tracers or hits to the ground or the enemy. Essentially blanks.

 

Thing is that even with perfect models. Ghosts shells will still be there in one way. As this is still a server side game. Shell is calculated via the server, and the shell you see is a delayed visual reaction. This why tanks always blow up before you see the tracer hit it.

 

That and even with the perfect ISP and a WG server. You only need one bad apple between you and WG to get a packet loss or spike that can cause it. Even tho your ping is perfectly fine, the red light flicker will tell a different story.  So with all those variables vs a moving target, the tracer might clip into the front plate and lands on the ground behind it. But on the server, it went past it half a second ago and was never near the tank. So ghost shells are not always due to bad models or your ISP. But at times that can ofc be a factor.

 

But as was pointed out, tank gg has some bad models that are not correct vs models on my phone apps or different sites. So if you are not sure, check other sources, or do a training room vs someone you know has the tank. 



Homer_J #11 Posted 26 April 2019 - 02:45 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31416 battles
  • 34,219
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostDark_Cloud, on 26 April 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

 

Does lag literally make me fire blanks?

 

Yes.

 

If you get a lost packet between you and the server there is no attempt to correct it because it would still arrive too late to be of use.  If you miss a bit of information then your client tries to guess what happened.  If the client and server disagree then the server's view of things is considered correct.  Tanks can be in wrong positions making it look like shots go right through, guns can be pointing in different directions making you shell go way off.

13:47 Added after 2 minutes

View PostDark_Cloud, on 26 April 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

Bump, and for those interested here's a link to an example: http://wotreplays.eu...dark_cloud-t-10

The second last shot, and the one I put on the 263 just vanished into thin air, the gun shot a blank.

 

How do I know which will be the 2nd to last shot?  Can you say what time it happened (clock in the top right of the screen).

hmrc #12 Posted 26 April 2019 - 02:48 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 250 battles
  • 174
  • Member since:
    05-22-2013

View PostHomer_J, on 26 April 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

Yes.

 

If you get a lost packet between you and the server there is no attempt to correct it because it would still arrive too late to be of use.  If you miss a bit of information then your client tries to guess what happened.  If the client and server disagree then the server's view of things is considered correct.  Tanks can be in wrong positions making it look like shots go right through, guns can be pointing in different directions making you shell go way off.

 

I’ve not looked at that replay that the OP has posted but they were saying nothing at all happens including a tracer. That’s different from what is normally referred to as a ghost shell.

pecopad #13 Posted 26 April 2019 - 02:49 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 27127 battles
  • 1,685
  • [UGN] UGN
  • Member since:
    09-04-2015

View PostBalc0ra, on 26 April 2019 - 01:15 PM, said:

 

 

Thing is that even with perfect models. Ghosts shells will still be there in one way. As this is still a server side game. Shell is calculated via the server, and the shell you see is a delayed visual reaction. This why tanks always blow up before you see the tracer hit it.

 

That and even with the perfect ISP and a WG server. You only need one bad apple between you and WG to get a packet loss or spike that can cause it. Even tho your ping is perfectly fine, the red light flicker will tell a different story.  So with all those variables vs a moving target, the tracer might clip into the front plate and lands on the ground behind it. But on the server, it went past it half a second ago and was never near the tank. So ghost shells are not always due to bad models or your ISP. But at times that can ofc be a factor.

 

But as was pointed out, tank gg has some bad models that are not correct vs models on my phone apps or different sites. So if you are not sure, check other sources, or do a training room vs someone you know has the tank. 

 

Use the mod that allows you to see the effective values, its on Aslain and it uses the in game models. When you preview the tank, it shows you the values

I also think tanks.gg uses the game models, but I'm not sure.



Homer_J #14 Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:07 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31416 battles
  • 34,219
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostDark_Cloud, on 26 April 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

Bump, and for those interested here's a link to an example: http://wotreplays.eu...dark_cloud-t-10

The second last shot, and the one I put on the 263 just vanished into thin air, the gun shot a blank.

 

View Posthmrc, on 26 April 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:

 

I’ve not looked at that replay that the OP has posted but they were saying nothing at all happens including a tracer. That’s different from what is normally referred to as a ghost shell.

 

Shot goes right underneath and hits the ground behind the 263.

 

Posted Image

 

Timestamp 09:54

 

 


Edited by Homer_J, 26 April 2019 - 03:10 PM.


hmrc #15 Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:12 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 250 battles
  • 174
  • Member since:
    05-22-2013

View PostHomer_J, on 26 April 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

 

 

Shot goes right underneath and hits the ground behind the 263.

 

Posted Image

 

Just so I understand correctly, in the replay client visual effects are there?

Homer_J #16 Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:14 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31416 battles
  • 34,219
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View Posthmrc, on 26 April 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:

 

Just so I understand correctly, in the replay client visual effects are there?

 

I don't see a tracer but the explosion is there.  But I only ran it on my potato laptop, I'll have a look on my proper PC.  OP is last man standing and I can't see where else that shot came from.

Homer_J #17 Posted 26 April 2019 - 03:31 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31416 battles
  • 34,219
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostHomer_J, on 26 April 2019 - 03:14 PM, said:

 

I don't see a tracer but the explosion is there.  But I only ran it on my potato laptop, I'll have a look on my proper PC.  OP is last man standing and I can't see where else that shot came from.

 

Triple checked and it's definitely his shot which hits the ground behind the Obj263.  The E75 round the corner doesn't fire and the explosion happens the exact moment OP shoots.

 

No ghost shell, just missed.



Dark_Cloud #18 Posted 26 April 2019 - 04:04 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18192 battles
  • 257
  • [SPL1] SPL1
  • Member since:
    03-27-2013

Should have checked, admittedly this makes me look like a moron, but I'll swear by anything these cannot all be missed. Simply not possible because this would require the shot to hit the ground at the same time as it was fired, like in the example above regardless of range, and thus the shell velocity would have to increase with distance.

Either way I'll actually look at the fkin replay before I'll post it like a spastic

15:11 Added after 6 minutes

View Posthmrc, on 26 April 2019 - 03:48 PM, said:

 

I’ve not looked at that replay that the OP has posted but they were saying nothing at all happens including a tracer. That’s different from what is normally referred to as a ghost shell.

 

This is correct, it's just as the one shown in the replay would have seemed from the gunsight, obviously the 263 completely at that range blocked the explosion, but an actual case of this would look the same at any range.


Edited by Dark_Cloud, 26 April 2019 - 04:13 PM.


Homer_J #19 Posted 26 April 2019 - 04:52 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31416 battles
  • 34,219
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View PostDark_Cloud, on 26 April 2019 - 04:04 PM, said:

Should have checked,

 

It's good that you provided a replay.  Things were a bit clouded from sniper view because you took a shot in the back of the commanders cupola at the same instant.  You can only see the impact by going to external camera.

Dark_Cloud #20 Posted 27 April 2019 - 03:14 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18192 battles
  • 257
  • [SPL1] SPL1
  • Member since:
    03-27-2013

Occurred again and I'm not even going to post any evidence, because the case is officially closed as the game just [edited]with me.

The lost shots are because regular tank shells don't really leave visible marks on the ground, the shell contact explosion dissipates faster than the barrel flame, and the shot honestly can just go [edited]anywhere.

It's RNG and the game was honked from the start.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users