Jump to content


Mod question


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

Etre_ #1 Posted 29 April 2019 - 09:24 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 56731 battles
  • 1,393
  • [WEBOB] WEBOB
  • Member since:
    04-21-2014

Hey guys. 

Long story short, do you think or know that a mod which reports friendlies positions to a server exists ? 
I don't see a reason why wouldn't. I had a mod that was pushing notifications to the ingame browser via java script (I identified and removed it). XVM is using the internet.

 

I have come to suspect the existence of a payed mod. Clients will report friendlies positions to a server which in turn will report to clients in the other team. Technically, should be possible. 

 

Never heard of such a mod although. 

 

Edit: I'm thinking mod spread via popular mod pack, reports positions and who pays for a mod can receive the info.


Edited by Etre_, 29 April 2019 - 09:38 AM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #2 Posted 29 April 2019 - 09:47 AM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 53201 battles
  • 3,718
  • [OBY] OBY
  • Member since:
    04-02-2016
XVM exchanges data with allies (XMQP). Mostly useless data like 'Spotted', 'Drowning', 'On Fire', etc. but i don't know of a mod that exchanges this data with an enemy. That would suck though! :(

BR33K1_PAWAH #3 Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:06 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 6430 battles
  • 1,394
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    04-11-2018

View PostEtre_, on 29 April 2019 - 11:24 AM, said:

I have come to suspect the existence of a payed mod. Clients will report friendlies positions to a server which in turn will report to clients in the other team. Technically, should be possible. 

 

No it doesn't work like that.

Server knows everyone's positions.

Then server synchronizes with each client positions of tanks that this particular client knows about(ones that are currently spotted).

So a particular client never receives any info on enemy tanks that currently are NOT spotted.


Edited by BR33K1_PAWAH, 29 April 2019 - 10:07 AM.


Strappster #4 Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:15 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 25989 battles
  • 10,272
  • Member since:
    10-20-2015

IIRC this has been done. It required two players to be on opposite teams, both running a program that would send allied positions through a central server to the other guy where they'd be drawn in on top of the WoT client in a similar way to how XVM overlays data. There was lots of lag so hitting anything still required plenty of luck but as a proof of concept, it worked.

 

In practice, however, it's nonsense. No one in randoms gives up their team in the hope of someone on the other team doing the same thing and even the guys who produced the proof of concept said it was impractical thanks to the need for a central server. But you don't care, do you, you stopped reading this post after the first paragraph because that confirmed your biases and that's all you were looking for.



BR33K1_PAWAH #5 Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:22 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 6430 battles
  • 1,394
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    04-11-2018

View PostStrappster, on 29 April 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

IIRC this has been done. It required two players to be on opposite teams, both running a program that would send allied positions through a central server to the other guy where they'd be drawn in on top of the WoT client in a similar way to how XVM overlays data. There was lots of lag so hitting anything still required plenty of luck but as a proof of concept, it worked..

 

Yo do realize such overlay can draw only 2d textures, not 3d objects? :popcorn:



Strappster #6 Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:30 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 25989 battles
  • 10,272
  • Member since:
    10-20-2015

View PostBR33K1_PAWAH, on 29 April 2019 - 09:22 AM, said:

Yo do realize such overlay can draw only 2d textures, not 3d objects? :popcorn:

 



gpalsson #7 Posted 29 April 2019 - 10:32 AM

    General

  • Player
  • 24477 battles
  • 8,928
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    04-13-2013

View PostBR33K1_PAWAH, on 29 April 2019 - 09:06 AM, said:

 

No it doesn't work like that.

Server knows everyone's positions.

Then server synchronizes with each client positions of tanks that this particular client knows about(ones that are currently spotted).

So a particular client never receives any info on enemy tanks that currently are NOT spotted.

 

It could work. If an enemy [Client1] relays information of friendlies (xyz coordinations and facing and ofc battleId to identify what game they are in) it wouldn't be hard for the receiver [Client2] to render it.

Client1 would send it to 3rd party server, and client2 would receive it from this server.

 

The hardest part would be to convince people of [Client1] to install a modpack with this in it.



Etre_ #8 Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:20 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 56731 battles
  • 1,393
  • [WEBOB] WEBOB
  • Member since:
    04-21-2014
Ok. Maybe I didn't made myself clear enough.

Who is sharing the info (a client) might not be necessarily aware that he is doing so. I'm thinking of hidden functionality in a popular mod/mod pack.
In this way the there will be enough people in the system to make it work.
After that, who made this mod will sell access to the data via dedicated mod and servers. Also, having a receiving client mod should exclude one from being reported in the system.

Since I never heard of a such system, this might only exist in a private circle based on recommendations or could be used for providing other services, like 3 marking tanks on request.
I don't imagine WG knowing about this and doing nothing so that's why I never complained about it despite having suspicions for some time now.

Second, the tanks aren't rendered 3d like in that shadow/last known position mod. Is enough to be displayed on minimap. Tick rate low enough to not lag the system.

I could definetely see this work.

Strappster #9 Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:32 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 25989 battles
  • 10,272
  • Member since:
    10-20-2015

View PostEtre_, on 29 April 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

Ok. Maybe I didn't made myself clear enough.

 

Maybe you should read the replies. The video I posted shows exactly what you describe. Yes, as a proof of concept it requires two people to collaborate (hence the count-in at the start) but it's hardly a stretch to implement it the way you're proposing.

 

As for whether it could actually happen, well, some mod packs have been known to include dodgy coding in the past (bitcoin mining, for example) so it's hardly beyond the realms of possibility but there are enough dedicated modders out there that someone would point it out through deconstruction of the code.

 

Even if it was available in the wild, undiscovered or unmentioned, there are going to be so few people using it that you'd still have to rule out blind-firing and obvious bushes before moving toward it being a possibility. I'm not a great player but even I'll shoot certain bushes at the start of a battle because it's the one a light always runs to. Too many players approach each battle as a rote exercise and then cry foul when someone on the other team does exactly the same thing. :rolleyes:



BR33K1_PAWAH #10 Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:42 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 6430 battles
  • 1,394
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    04-11-2018

View PostStrappster, on 29 April 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

 

 

It probably uses WoT application to render models by using some kind of injector to force WoT to execute cheat's code. 

I've never seen an overlay actually rendering 3d objects.

 

View Postgpalsson, on 29 April 2019 - 12:32 PM, said:

 

It could work. If an enemy [Client1] relays information of friendlies (xyz coordinations and facing and ofc battleId to identify what game they are in) it wouldn't be hard for the receiver [Client2] to render it.

Client1 would send it to 3rd party server, and client2 would receive it from this server.

 

The hardest part would be to convince people of [Client1] to install a modpack with this in it.

 

I actually misread OP post and was thinking that he meant WoT server, not some 3rd party server.

Edited by BR33K1_PAWAH, 29 April 2019 - 11:43 AM.


Geno1isme #11 Posted 29 April 2019 - 11:46 AM

    General

  • Player
  • 46099 battles
  • 9,784
  • [TRYIT] TRYIT
  • Member since:
    09-03-2013

Technically it's certainly possible. Wether something like that would show up in WGs checking of modpacks on their modhub, only WG could answer that.

 

If you're paranoid enough and have some technical expertise you could of course also check yourself if the client connects to unknown 3rd party sites during a match when using a certain modpack.

 

Ideally Mods would require special permissions to be able to use the client network code, but I guess that's not really possible without actually putting the client into a sandbox. I could imagine that it's in theory also possible to DOS a client on request if he has a malicious mod installed.



Etre_ #12 Posted 29 April 2019 - 12:30 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 56731 battles
  • 1,393
  • [WEBOB] WEBOB
  • Member since:
    04-21-2014

View PostStrappster, on 29 April 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

 

Maybe you should read the replies. The video I posted shows exactly what you describe. Yes, as a proof of concept it requires two people to collaborate (hence the count-in at the start) but it's hardly a stretch to implement it the way you're proposing.

 

As for whether it could actually happen, well, some mod packs have been known to include dodgy coding in the past (bitcoin mining, for example) so it's hardly beyond the realms of possibility but there are enough dedicated modders out there that someone would point it out through deconstruction of the code.

 

Even if it was available in the wild, undiscovered or unmentioned, there are going to be so few people using it that you'd still have to rule out blind-firing and obvious bushes before moving toward it being a possibility. I'm not a great player but even I'll shoot certain bushes at the start of a battle because it's the one a light always runs to. Too many players approach each battle as a rote exercise and then cry foul when someone on the other team does exactly the same thing. :rolleyes:

 

Ok, I didn't watch the video previously. It seems almost exactly what I described. 

Anyway, I don't complain about being blind shot in a bush. I don't stay still in usual bushes. I peak every few seconds and retreat. This is more about people being pre aimed exactly on your position, far from the place you got spotted previously. That can happen also. But for me is suspicions when someone stays immobile for minutes and reacts instantly. You don't react so fast unless you are prompted already. 

 

 

Something like this. That BC could not have hit me unless he was pre aimed at my exact spot. Not at 400m. And previously I was spotted in another place. Is not a 100% proof, I know that. Is just that when this kind on things happen from time to time, and you know is next to impossible for a normal player to do that unless extremely luckily, you grow suspicious. 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #13 Posted 29 April 2019 - 12:40 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 32396 battles
  • 3,380
  • [FISHY] FISHY
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015

View PostEtre_, on 29 April 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

Something like this. That BC could not have hit me unless he was pre aimed at my exact spot. Not at 400m. And previously I was spotted in another place. Is not a 100% proof, I know that. Is just that when this kind on things happen from time to time, and you know is next to impossible for a normal player to do that unless extremely luckily, you grow suspicious. 

 

Well if you believe something like this is happening often enough to be noticeable then the solution is clear, uninstall your mods and you'll be immune to those blind shots. 



Etre_ #14 Posted 29 April 2019 - 12:49 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 56731 battles
  • 1,393
  • [WEBOB] WEBOB
  • Member since:
    04-21-2014

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 29 April 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

 

Well if you believe something like this is happening often enough to be noticeable then the solution is clear, uninstall your mods and you'll be immune to those blind shots. 

 

It could be any of the other 14 people in your team. 

 

View PostBR33K1_PAWAH, on 29 April 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

 

It probably uses WoT application to render models by using some kind of injector to force WoT to execute cheat's code. 

I've never seen an overlay actually rendering 3d objects.

 

 

There is a mod, named shadow mod, very well known, showing a 3d render of a tank in the last spotted position.

From what I researched, it seems the mods are made by decompiling WoT files and extracting functions. About everything the game can do a mod can do also. Which is stupid if you ask me. I'm not a modder though and I didn't delve into deep enough. So if I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

 


Edited by Etre_, 29 April 2019 - 01:04 PM.


Homer_J #15 Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:47 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 31398 battles
  • 34,135
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

Yes the idea exists.

 

The problem is if you want to make money out of it then people need to know about it.  If people know about it then, well, we would know about it.

 

So if it does exist then it is used by a small group and is a closely guarded secret.  And as such the chances of meeting someone using it are pretty slim.



Strappster #16 Posted 29 April 2019 - 02:36 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 25989 battles
  • 10,272
  • Member since:
    10-20-2015

View PostEtre_, on 29 April 2019 - 11:30 AM, said:

Anyway, I don't complain about being blind shot in a bush. I don't stay still in usual bushes. I peak every few seconds and retreat. This is more about people being pre aimed exactly on your position, far from the place you got spotted previously. That can happen also. But for me is suspicions when someone stays immobile for minutes and reacts instantly. You don't react so fast unless you are prompted already. 

 

 

Yeah, that's a usual bush on that map, it's not surprising someone's looking that way. And you fired, which got you spotted, you didn't kill the BC with one shot, which got you killed in return. It happened inside 3 seconds so you didn't get a sixth sense alert.

 

View PostEtre_, on 29 April 2019 - 11:30 AM, said:

Something like this. That BC could not have hit me unless he was pre aimed at my exact spot. Not at 400m. And previously I was spotted in another place. Is not a 100% proof, I know that. Is just that when this kind on things happen from time to time, and you know is next to impossible for a normal player to do that unless extremely luckily, you grow suspicious. 

 

View PostEtre_, on 29 April 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

There is a mod, named shadow mod, very well known, showing a 3d render of a tank in the last spotted position.

From what I researched, it seems the mods are made by decompiling WoT files and extracting functions. About everything the game can do a mod can do also. Which is stupid if you ask me. I'm not a modder though and I didn't delve into deep enough. So if I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

 

So by your own claims, you can't have been a victim of this shadow mod because you weren't spotted in the bush where you killed the BC. The bush you drove through in order to get the shot. The shot you took with the big boomy stick on your gun. The shot that didn't kill the BC and gave him time to return fire at the bush that wasn't providing you with any cover. The only bush in that area that anyone uses to snipe up at the hill because there are buildings across the rest of it.

 

If that's the standard of your evidence for suspecting a cheat, I'm amazed you're still playing the game.



Etre_ #17 Posted 29 April 2019 - 02:54 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 56731 battles
  • 1,393
  • [WEBOB] WEBOB
  • Member since:
    04-21-2014

View PostStrappster, on 29 April 2019 - 02:36 PM, said:

 

Yeah, that's a usual bush on that map, it's not surprising someone's looking that way. And you fired, which got you spotted, you didn't kill the BC with one shot, which got you killed in return. It happened inside 3 seconds so you didn't get a sixth sense alert.

 

 

 

So by your own claims, you can't have been a victim of this shadow mod because you weren't spotted in the bush where you killed the BC. The bush you drove through in order to get the shot. The shot you took with the big boomy stick on your gun. The shot that didn't kill the BC and gave him time to return fire at the bush that wasn't providing you with any cover. The only bush in that area that anyone uses to snipe up at the hill because there are buildings across the rest of it.

 

If that's the standard of your evidence for suspecting a cheat, I'm amazed you're still playing the game.

 

Well, you didn't understood one bit of what I said and what I claimed. As such any further discussion with you is pointless. Maybe learn the game first and do not try so hard to troll the forums.

 

First, getting spotted when shooting was understood.

Second, I had cover from the building, partial cover.
Third for a BC to return fire fast at a small visible part of a tank moving to take cover at 400m is very luckily. Not impossible. Never claimed that. Is just suspicions. If you played a BC sometimes recently you would know what that tank can or can't do. Honestly, you don't seem to know.


Edited by Etre_, 29 April 2019 - 03:10 PM.


Randomar #18 Posted 29 April 2019 - 02:56 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 25764 battles
  • 18
  • Member since:
    10-18-2015
The better your programming skills are, the better your WN8 rate, win rate, and clan will become. What a coincidence.
 
But why should Wargaming leave something to chance?
 
One waits half a minute before starting the program - I thought that a secure connection between client and server is established.
Now it turns out that insecure connections to third party servers and a third clients may be established.
 
BTW, in a program where you can shop with real money.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #19 Posted 29 April 2019 - 03:07 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 32396 battles
  • 3,380
  • [FISHY] FISHY
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015

View PostEtre_, on 29 April 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

 

It could be any of the other 14 people in your team.

 

 

Right, so in order for this to be a thing there would have to be a tainted mod out there that is so wildly popular that enough people have unwittingly downloaded it to populate the servers with a large amount of payloads. AND there has to be sufficient numbers of these payloads that there is a statistically good enough chance that two people will end up on opposing teams. AND that mod has to somehow then know what other payloads are active in a specific instance of a WG battle in order to negotiate with a central server and be able to share that data. AND it has to be sufficiently prevalent and obvious you are able to observe the effects in game.

 

Would you like a bridge? Reasonable asking price.



Etre_ #20 Posted 29 April 2019 - 03:09 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 56731 battles
  • 1,393
  • [WEBOB] WEBOB
  • Member since:
    04-21-2014
Payloads ?

WTF are you talking about ? 




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users