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So, you are nerfing the Leopard1 and calling it a buff?


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superdashi #1 Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:22 PM

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buffed:

 

Alpha. Good buff for a sniper, agreed. Allthough 30 is not much, but still

Dispersion: not much, but still ... 

Aimtime: nice buff, agreed

even:
 Speed: +5km/h top speed, but less agility. Dunno if it's a buff or nerf. Good to reach positions quickly, but less reverse speed lets you die more constantly after you got detected. Also the less agility ...
DPS: who cares on dps on a sniper anyways? Alpha is what counts

 

nerfed:
Ammo types as a major nerf. and a costly one. No more HEAT. Nice ... 
AP standard, with lower velocity but 10 more penetration ... wow
APCR now premium with 315 instead of 330 HEAT. 
Hitpoints - 100

Can someone pls explain?
 



Homer_J #2 Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:40 PM

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You mean the cancelled before they made it through supertest changes?

tajj7 #3 Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:48 PM

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View Postsuperdashi, on 29 April 2019 - 12:22 PM, said:

buffed:

 

Alpha. Good buff for a sniper, agreed. Allthough 30 is not much, but still

Dispersion: not much, but still ... 

Aimtime: nice buff, agreed

even:
 Speed: +5km/h top speed, but less agility. Dunno if it's a buff or nerf. Good to reach positions quickly, but less reverse speed lets you die more constantly after you got detected. Also the less agility ...
DPS: who cares on dps on a sniper anyways? Alpha is what counts

 

nerfed:
Ammo types as a major nerf. and a costly one. No more HEAT. Nice ... 
AP standard, with lower velocity but 10 more penetration ... wow
APCR now premium with 315 instead of 330 HEAT. 
Hitpoints - 100

Can someone pls explain?
 

 

AP with 10mm more penetration and almost the same velocity is a buff. AP has more normalisation than APCR, so a 278mm penetration AP round is probably as good as a 285-290 APCR round. 

 

As is APCR as premium instead of HEAT.  It's just a better round and again, due to normalisation, the penetration is basically better.

 

Neither of those are nerfs.

 

Only the reverse speed and HP was nerf, though not needed.

 

All of this is being relooked at anyway



vasilinhorulezz #4 Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:55 PM

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You're half a week late man.

Sorry, read the news before the useless thread about changes that won't happen.



superdashi #5 Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:55 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 29 April 2019 - 01:40 PM, said:

You mean the cancelled before they made it through supertest changes?

 

https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/1-5-1-MT-rebalance/

baribal_80 #6 Posted 29 April 2019 - 01:56 PM

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View Postsuperdashi, on 29 April 2019 - 12:22 PM, said:

buffed:

 

Alpha. Good buff for a sniper, agreed. Allthough 30 is not much, but still

Dispersion: not much, but still ... 

Aimtime: nice buff, agreed

even:
 Speed: +5km/h top speed, but less agility. Dunno if it's a buff or nerf. Good to reach positions quickly, but less reverse speed lets you die more constantly after you got detected. Also the less agility ...
DPS: who cares on dps on a sniper anyways? Alpha is what counts

 

nerfed:
Ammo types as a major nerf. and a costly one. No more HEAT. Nice ... 
AP standard, with lower velocity but 10 more penetration ... wow
APCR now premium with 315 instead of 330 HEAT. 
Hitpoints - 100

Can someone pls explain?
 

 

Actually 315acpr is close to as good if not better than 330 heat since it goes through spaced armor. 

superdashi #7 Posted 29 April 2019 - 02:11 PM

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hmmm. 

So, you are basically saying, that the 278 AP is as good or slightly better then the 268 APCR? Ok, i don't understand the game mechs that much. But the -98m/s velocity makes it harder to hit on long distance right? But well, we have the faster aiming time ... so all in all, nothing changes really?

The new premium is APCR with 315, which isn't much improvement to the standard 278 then. Otherwise like the 268 vs. the 330 before. Then egain, there is the +440m/s velo. Hmmm, so APCR will be the ammo to use here, right? :-) Buffed allright, but costly.

- HP / - power to weight / - reverse speed = you just die more quickly. Even the speedbuff of 5 km just gets you more closer to the spot where you light up and die (muhaha)

Well, i don't understand this whole need for a complete rebalance. I play the Leo a lot, allthough everybody is laughing at me. It could use a slight buff, granted. But i would like to see better aiming time or even more reverse speed ;-)

baribal_80 #8 Posted 29 April 2019 - 02:13 PM

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View Postsuperdashi, on 29 April 2019 - 01:11 PM, said:

hmmm. 

So, you are basically saying, that the 278 AP is as good or slightly better then the 268 APCR? Ok, i don't understand the game mechs that much. But the -98m/s velocity makes it harder to hit on long distance right? But well, we have the faster aiming time ... so all in all, nothing changes really?

The new premium is APCR with 315, which isn't much improvement to the standard 278 then. Otherwise like the 268 vs. the 330 before. Then egain, there is the +440m/s velo. Hmmm, so APCR will be the ammo to use here, right? :-) Buffed allright, but costly.

- HP / - power to weight / - reverse speed = you just die more quickly. Even the speedbuff of 5 km just gets you more closer to the spot where you light up and die (muhaha)

Well, i don't understand this whole need for a complete rebalance. I play the Leo a lot, allthough everybody is laughing at me. It could use a slight buff, granted. But i would like to see better aiming time or even more reverse speed ;-)

 

I have said nothing about about standard rounds. Actually AP is better than ACPR given same pen because of shell normalization. Both shells are viable imho. 

 

As for lower hp/t I don't know how much it was nerfed. It not much it is still doable. 

 

I don't think it's a straightforward nerf though WG is super afraid of snipy tanks because they are annoying for mouthbreathers



tajj7 #9 Posted 29 April 2019 - 02:36 PM

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View Postsuperdashi, on 29 April 2019 - 01:11 PM, said:

hmmm. 

So, you are basically saying, that the 278 AP is as good or slightly better then the 268 APCR? Ok, i don't understand the game mechs that much. But the -98m/s velocity makes it harder to hit on long distance right? But well, we have the faster aiming time ... so all in all, nothing changes really?

The new premium is APCR with 315, which isn't much improvement to the standard 278 then. Otherwise like the 268 vs. the 330 before. Then egain, there is the +440m/s velo. Hmmm, so APCR will be the ammo to use here, right? :-) Buffed allright, but costly.

- HP / - power to weight / - reverse speed = you just die more quickly. Even the speedbuff of 5 km just gets you more closer to the spot where you light up and die (muhaha)

Well, i don't understand this whole need for a complete rebalance. I play the Leo a lot, allthough everybody is laughing at me. It could use a slight buff, granted. But i would like to see better aiming time or even more reverse speed ;-)

 

You wouldn't notice that change in shell velocity. it's like 7% or something. 

 

As for the pen values -

 

Posted Image

 

E100 lower plate vs 268mm pen APCR, 258MM pen AP, and 300 pen HEAT. 

 

Posted Image

 

E100 lower plates vs 290 pen AP, 315 pen APCR, and 330 pen HEAT. 

 

A high velocity AP round is basically the best of everything, you get the normalisation of AP, the velocity of APCR and none of the issues with spaced armour that HEAT has. 

 

And as you can see 330 HEAT and 315 APCR have pretty similar performance, except APCR has the higher velocity and doesn't care about spaced armour. 

 

HEAT is not the best round, full HEAT loadouts are generally not great but it tends to be one of the most common premium rounds. 

 

But this is all probably moot because WG have decided to not go ahead with these changes and the Leo 1 changes might be completely different next time we see them.

 

Also there were no nerfs to power to weight, it was just a badly translated article. Main 'nerfs' to the Leo 1 were HP and reverse speed



Homer_J #10 Posted 29 April 2019 - 03:44 PM

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View Postsuperdashi, on 29 April 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

 

Cancelled already mate.

 

Quote

The first iteration of the supertest rebalance of medium tanks has come to an end, and we have news for you. We studied the statistics and reviews and concluded that the edits of all the machines indicated earlier did not show the proper result and require further study in the next iteration of the supertest. Therefore, we will continue to test changes in AMX 30B, Leopard 1 and STB-1. Detailed specifications for the next iteration we will add later.

 

 



SnowRelic #11 Posted 29 April 2019 - 05:49 PM

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Personally, when I read the changes to the mediums, my first thought was "blech". I won't go into the other tanks here, but there was something about the Leopard changes that made me wonder.

 

A pretty long while ago, there was some interview or other where buffs to the Leo were discussed and the developer made some comments about not wanting to make it OP. Those remarks were ridiculed over here and rightly so. Though I couldn't see why they were afraid of overbuffing. Now I think I get where they were coming from.

 

It's the reverse speed nerf that reminded my of typical tank destroyers nerfs. The great big fear holding back the Leopard buff might be that they fear changing it to some tier 10 equivalent of yester-yester-yesteryears Hellkitty. The M18 was pretty strong; especially with a good crew, bino's and camo net. It could spot for itself while sniping. It would never be like that for the Leopard, given the current state of the maps. Bottlenecked corridors and soft-cover monsanto'd. Even if the maps were more open, there's complete view range saturation at tier 10, very much unlike middle tiers.

 

I'm curious if anyone took notice of the penetration at 500m distance for the proposed supertest AP and APCR rounds? I'd guess penetration at that distance would be lessened (compared to the current iteration of the tank) in order to make sniping less effective.

 

Buffing the Leo shouldn't be hard. Reduce the size of the internal ammo rack module, lower dispersion value and terrain resistances a bit. And set that reverse speed at 25km/h. Still a glass cannon, just more enjoyable to play.

 

 

 



WindSplitter1 #12 Posted 29 April 2019 - 09:13 PM

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View PostSnowRelic, on 29 April 2019 - 04:49 PM, said:

Personally, when I read the changes to the mediums, my first thought was "blech". I won't go into the other tanks here, but there was something about the Leopard changes that made me wonder.

 

A pretty long while ago, there was some interview or other where buffs to the Leo were discussed and the developer made some comments about not wanting to make it OP. Those remarks were ridiculed over here and rightly so. Though I couldn't see why they were afraid of overbuffing. Now I think I get where they were coming from.

 

It's the reverse speed nerf that reminded my of typical tank destroyers nerfs. The great big fear holding back the Leopard buff might be that they fear changing it to some tier 10 equivalent of yester-yester-yesteryears Hellkitty. The M18 was pretty strong; especially with a good crew, bino's and camo net. It could spot for itself while sniping. It would never be like that for the Leopard, given the current state of the maps. Bottlenecked corridors and soft-cover monsanto'd. Even if the maps were more open, there's complete view range saturation at tier 10, very much unlike middle tiers.

 

I'm curious if anyone took notice of the penetration at 500m distance for the proposed supertest AP and APCR rounds? I'd guess penetration at that distance would be lessened (compared to the current iteration of the tank) in order to make sniping less effective.

 

Buffing the Leo shouldn't be hard. Reduce the size of the internal ammo rack module, lower dispersion value and terrain resistances a bit. And set that reverse speed at 25km/h. Still a glass cannon, just more enjoyable to play.

 

 

 

 

Long time no see. Welcome back.

StahlWotan #13 Posted 30 April 2019 - 01:00 AM

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View Postsuperdashi, on 29 April 2019 - 01:22 PM, said:

 

Can someone pls explain?

 

 

RASHA ! 



Strizi #14 Posted 30 April 2019 - 03:09 AM

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They should remove all the counternerfs, let it keep apcr as standard but give it 278 pen and 330 heat special, buff dispersion further than 0.18->0.16 and accuracy further than 0.3->0.29, buff alpha to 420 and done ready for testing. Leopard 1 is so weak there is no justification for any little counternerf be it 100 hp or whatever.

NotRichou #15 Posted 30 April 2019 - 04:45 AM

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View PostStrizi, on 30 April 2019 - 03:09 AM, said:

They should remove all the counternerfs, let it keep apcr as standard but give it 278 pen

thats literally worse than 278 AP dude 



Strizi #16 Posted 30 April 2019 - 05:15 AM

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View PostNotRichou, on 30 April 2019 - 04:45 AM, said:

thats literally worse than 278 AP dude 

 

So be it? Its the historical layout and id rather keep heat as special than having a ap/apcr combo.

NotRichou #17 Posted 30 April 2019 - 05:33 AM

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View PostStrizi, on 30 April 2019 - 05:15 AM, said:

 

So be it? Its the historical layout and id rather keep heat as special than having a ap/apcr combo.

 

why? HEAT is arguably weaker than APCR aswell its the "worst" of the gold ammo types 

and historical is just hilarious considering what game this is about



BR33K1_PAWAH #18 Posted 30 April 2019 - 06:52 AM

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IMO Leo needs better stab and aiming time, not alpha. But looks like WG wants to make it some kind of TD redline camper which is sad.

Cobra6 #19 Posted 30 April 2019 - 07:38 AM

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Removing HEAT from a long range sniper is just beyond stupid, it's the ammo that doesn't lose penetration with range which is ideal for sniping.

Tons of people claim HEAT is worse then APCR but that is nonsense if you aim properly, yes for snapshotting APCR might be better as it doesn't care about spaced armour but as a *SNIPER* you want HEAT. (or the T92 light tank standard ammo that loses 2mm of pen over 500m range XD )

 

Also, AP ammo loses less penetration over range then APCR so making the primary ammo AP is actually better.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 30 April 2019 - 07:39 AM.


Jauhesammutin #20 Posted 30 April 2019 - 08:05 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 30 April 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:

Removing HEAT from a long range sniper is just beyond stupid, it's the ammo that doesn't lose penetration with range which is ideal for sniping.

Tons of people claim HEAT is worse then APCR but that is nonsense if you aim properly, yes for snapshotting APCR might be better as it doesn't care about spaced armour but as a *SNIPER* you want HEAT. (or the T92 light tank standard ammo that loses 2mm of pen over 500m range XD )

 

Also, AP ammo loses less penetration over range then APCR so making the primary ammo AP is actually better.

 

Cobra 6

 

Heat is horrible for sniping.

T10 meta is ruled by Russian tanks. They have nothing but tracks and spaced armor on their sides. Heat won't pen that. 

315 APCR is excellent for a sniper. 






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