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What is happening to the player base?


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Hechaton #1 Posted 01 May 2019 - 02:00 PM

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In the current meta there is a higher frequency of uneven battle results.

That is, there is a aparently a higher number of matches ending up 4 -15, 3-15 or 2-15 now, than a before.

I've been asking myself why, and here are some thoughts.

 

  • 1. The player base has gotten worse skillwise

Many players don't take "free shots", run away when they should have stayed, and stay when they should have moved. I still get surprised how little map awareness players have. On one of the recent matches there was an enemy light driving through a group of 5 heavies without getting shot, they didn't even try to aim for it. Are there too many boosters in circulation, making the climb too fast?

 

  • 2. Imbalanced maps

Some maps are kind of broken. One side has a huge advantage, and at best play that side will usually win. Examples: Abbey, Ruinberg and Mountain pass.

 

  • 3. OP tanks

Take the exampe of Type 4 and Type 5. They are usually the last tanks standing in their team according to the game I've seen. In some cases the Type 5 have not only come out alive, but with zero damage after being at the front the whole match. 

 

  • 4. More premium tanks available(?)/sold

Premium tanks is a great way for new players to train crews and grind credits. I personally mostly play tier 8. Could it be that many of the tier 8 premium tank players don't have a skill set of a "regular" tier 8 player?

If that is the case, the average skill "pool" in the tier 8 matches have dropped considerably from when I started to play this game.

 

I find it kind of frustration getting in the situation of seeing your team melting and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. 

What a is your thought of the subject?



Homer_J #2 Posted 01 May 2019 - 02:04 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 01 May 2019 - 02:00 PM, said:

In the current meta there is a higher frequency of uneven battle results.

 

 

Can you share your data?

 

Because the last time anyone actually bothered to collect any actual statistics it turned out that extreme uneven results were nowhere near as common as some people believed them to be.


Edited by Homer_J, 01 May 2019 - 02:05 PM.


ThinGun #3 Posted 01 May 2019 - 02:06 PM

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Luckily, I'm not good enough to feel frustrated by other people not playing to my high standards.  Maybe this is a situation where you should 'git bad' to feel happier?

Homer_J #4 Posted 01 May 2019 - 02:07 PM

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Posted Image

Hechaton #5 Posted 01 May 2019 - 02:16 PM

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Nice diagrams. Is it possible to create one from let's say three years ago? It's kind of meaningless unless you have somthing to compare it against.

Edited by Hechaton, 01 May 2019 - 02:21 PM.


BlackBloodBandit #6 Posted 01 May 2019 - 02:20 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 01 May 2019 - 02:00 PM, said:

In the current meta there is a higher frequency of uneven battle results.

That is, there is a aparently a higher number of matches ending up 4 -15, 3-15 or 2-15 now, than before.

I've been asking myself why, and here are some thoughts.

Describe "before" please, as these kind of scores have been here for years now.



Homer_J #7 Posted 01 May 2019 - 02:33 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 01 May 2019 - 02:16 PM, said:

Nice diagrams. Is it possible to create one from let's say three years ago? It's kind of meaningless unless you have somthing to compare it against.

 

I have a screenshot from 2011 called 15-0-yet-again.jpg because they were so "rare" back then.

WindSplitter1 #8 Posted 01 May 2019 - 02:49 PM

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I've noticed from 9.13, when I started playing to shortly before 1.0 steamrolls have indeed started to occur more often.

 

Granted, that difference might be small (perception bias, etc) but it does happen that slightly bit more often. Then again, nothing new.



StinkyStonky #9 Posted 01 May 2019 - 03:20 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 01 May 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

 

That's a LOT more than I expected.

 

If the teams were near identical then most battles would finish with a 1/2/3 tank difference, but that graph shows that 6/7/8/9 is the most common.

 

Incidentally, I think the OP's first point is COMPLETELY WRONG.

 

The imbalance in games is caused by unicorns not tomatoes.

 

In the old days the best players weren't that much better than average.

These days they know the maps and their tanks inside out.  The have the perfect setup of crew skills (lots of them), tank equipment (bonds and food) and best location to play given their play style, the map and the makeup of the two teams.  Many of these factors weren't present in the olden days.

 

The consequence is they routinely carry, getting dozens of penetrating shots per battle resulting in 1,000s of damage and numerous kills.

 

The tomatoes haven't changed.  They still just die in the open having spotted/damaged nothing.

 

It's the unicorns that unbalance the games.



Kozzy #10 Posted 01 May 2019 - 03:28 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 01 May 2019 - 01:00 PM, said:

What is happening to the player base?

 

 Sorry to burst your bubble but this kind of thread was being started long before your account was even created.  As has been stated already, data (ya know, actual evidence) has been collected to show that landslides aren't that common and actually happen about as often as would be predicted (bell curve graph above for example).

 

We would love to see some new evidence that shows something else but I imagine this is a case of 'the feels', am I right?


Edited by Kozzy, 01 May 2019 - 03:29 PM.


Miepie #11 Posted 01 May 2019 - 03:35 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 01 May 2019 - 03:20 PM, said:

 

That's a LOT more than I expected.

 

If the teams were near identical then most battles would finish with a 1/2/3 tank difference, but that graph shows that 6/7/8/9 is the most common.


 

 

I'm not really that surprised. In a LOT of the battles I'm in, things *appear* to be going evenly for the first two-thirds of the battle if you only look at the kills (5-5 or 6-6 or some such). However, while the kills go up evenly between the teams, the remaining hitpoints do not. One team often trades more favourably than the other, leading to the same amount of tanks but a significant difference in health. Then, some breaking point is reached (an important player is killed or some position is outflanked or an afk player on the enemy team wakes up and decides to start contributing) and the weaker team just crumbles within a few minutes, ending the match in 15-7/8/9. Matches like this happen way, way more often to me than 15-0/1/2/3 matches (though they both feel like getting steamrolled, so some perception issues might arise).

Rati_Festa #12 Posted 01 May 2019 - 03:35 PM

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Wouldnt a lowering of skill globally be randomly distributed across both teams, meaning it cant really change results?

 

Blaming uni's doesnt add up as they are rare.

 

I personally dont think the steamrolls have increased greatly. The speed of the game mid tiers has generally increased due to the WV, progettos and t8 lights such as the hwk 30 and lt 432s etc, this might lead to games finishing faster as people can literally die/kill faster.



Kozzy #13 Posted 01 May 2019 - 03:39 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 01 May 2019 - 02:35 PM, said:

Wouldnt a lowering of skill globally be randomly distributed across both teams, meaning it cant really change results?

 

 

Logically, if the average player is getting worse then surely anyone who is NOT getting worse will be getting disproportionately better games?  i.e. more noobs in the queue = less chance of better players on the enemy team?



NUKLEAR_SLUG #14 Posted 01 May 2019 - 03:57 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 01 May 2019 - 03:20 PM, said:

 

That's a LOT more than I expected.

 

If the teams were near identical then most battles would finish with a 1/2/3 tank difference, but that graph shows that 6/7/8/9 is the most common.

.

 

Perfectly balanced battles don't prevent the snowball effect. It might take a little longer for someone to make the mistake that starts things rolling but once that happens it plays out just the same.

Homer_J #15 Posted 01 May 2019 - 04:02 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 01 May 2019 - 03:20 PM, said:

 

If the teams were near identical then most battles would finish with a 1/2/3 tank difference,

 

Would they though?

 

Maybe you should read further down the post I linked.

 

Quote

A common suggestion is that a skill based matchmaker would result in more battles ending with a closer result.

This graph shows that with the team difference near to 0, we get the whole range of results, from -15 to +15, with the density of all results not showing a clear difference betwen the "balanced" set of games, or the overall set of games that we see.

Which surprised me because I expected even teams to lead to more one sided battles because as soon as you lose a tank you no longer have even teams.



Japualtah #16 Posted 01 May 2019 - 04:13 PM

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If we had 3 leagues, one for inexperienced or challenged players (there are more than one could think, they also have the right to play), one for the very good players and the rest in the middle, with incentives to move up the leagues, maybe, but just maybe, losing to stupidity would be less frustrating.

Snowballing is a quite normal phenomenon, once a flank crumbles, the game snowballs, it's logical and the way it should be.

 

What irks me is, just in my last game, the top tier heavy going camping in a bush in Pilsen automatically causing the defeat of his team.

I would like not having to deal with that kind of player.

 

But again, I'm not sure it would greatly improve the gaming experience because there are as many incompetent tankers in both teams.



Bordhaw #17 Posted 01 May 2019 - 07:27 PM

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View PostHechaton, on 01 May 2019 - 01:00 PM, said:

In the current meta there is a higher frequency of uneven battle results.

What a is your thought of the subject?

 



Gruff_ #18 Posted 01 May 2019 - 10:12 PM

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I would agree with the OP's points. The average game length feels shorter to me than in the past, but feel isn't overall server facts just my own perspective.  I agree that it's easier to get higher up the tiers with less games/time invested than previously so that may have an influence on the player skill base lowering higher up.  There have always been heavies camping base, team mates in odd positions etc though.

Robbie_T #19 Posted 01 May 2019 - 10:33 PM

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YEs the games have gotten worse..

And its a mix of things,,,,lots of new players getting to fast in the higher tiers. due to xp boosting.

But the biggest frustration for me are those 43% 30k players.....How many matches have bin ruined by those guys

And somehow they always get top tier in a platoon...

Like today tier 7,8,9 battle....and i get a top tier platoon of 257´s on the backline the whole game....

Also the work together is a drama lately..... Today me and 2 others killed 6 enemy heavys just by allowing eachother to shoot,while the 6 enemy heavys where fighting and bumping eachother over space...

Just move away when ya reloading...and let the other teammate take a shot.....or if he dose have the better tank give him the spot!

But peeps rather hold the spot ...let other tanks over extend because they refuse to move a inch....

 

 

 

 

 



Jauhesammutin #20 Posted 02 May 2019 - 10:08 AM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 01 May 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

 

 

If the teams were near identical then most battles would finish with a 1/2/3 tank difference, but that graph shows that 6/7/8/9 is the most common.

 

 

Where did you figure this one out? Even common sense says that a 1-3 tank difference isn't common.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanchester%27s_laws#Lanchester's_square_law

One player makes a mistake and the game is 15v14. That's a favor for the winning team which will just snowball until the end. 

Games which end in 1-3 tank difference are mostly because the winning team is winning with so many tanks that players don't even think they can lose and start yoloing.






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