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Possible further SPG rebalance: dispersion during moving/traverse and aim time


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lutsinho #1 Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:40 PM

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With the upcoming patch SPG's will be rebalanced and some of its frustrating features will be decreased. Less stun and less splash DMG. However one of the biggest problems I have with SPG's will still be there. You cannot do much to avoid being hit other than sitting behind a mountain the whole game. Although splash radius is reduced and DMG to the edge is reduced SPG's will still be able to prevent camping with 50km/h (reference: Skill4ltu)

For personal missions I played some SPG's, (I apologize for this to the ones of which I ruined their gameplay) Here I found out how incredible the dispersion during movement and gun traverse are. You can just follow a moving tank, aim a little i front, maybe let it aim in a little, shoot and quite reliably hit it.
This made me think of a possible rebalance: increase the dispersion during movement and rotation and decrease aim time. My idea is to do it quite drastically. To balance it the time to fully aim in could/should be faster then now. However because of the larger dispersion values the accuracy when aiming in to what for example would be 80 percent now will be (way) worse.  

This would result in:
- SPG's have to anticipate movements of opponents.
-SPG's cannot move their aim from one side of the map to the other and fire accurately in a few seconds.
- With unpredictable movements getting hit by SPG's can be avoided.

 

If you camp aggressively (make an aggressive play and get pinned down stuck on the fronlines) you can still get hit more easily then camping at the back without getting spotted. However, camping at 50km/h will only get you hit if you do it very predictably and/or the SPG was anticipating well. Furthermore if you are at the frontlines in a SPG match you have some tools to avoid being hit: manouvering in a unpredictable pattern.
For the SPG players hiiting your shots gets more rewarding because you have to anticipate more. It becomes more skillfull to hit your shots.

 

This would make SPG's hit less shots so there should be some more rebalance of other charecteristics to make up for this.
The most logically I think would be to increase the DMG, If you get hit you get hit harder but there is more you can do to avoid being hit. I would prefer this then to bleed hitpoints by getting hit again and again without a lot of possibilities to avoid this.

 

I would like to know what others think of this idea and if they see it as viable?

 

 



evilchaosmonkey #2 Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:55 PM

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View Postlutsinho, on 01 May 2019 - 07:40 PM, said:

For personal missions I played some SPG's, (I apologize for this to the ones of which I ruined their gameplay) Here I found out how incredible the dispersion during movement and gun traverse are. You can just follow a moving tank, aim a little i front, maybe let it aim in a little, shoot and quite reliably hit it.

This would result in:
-SPG's cannot move their aim from one side of the map to the other and fire accurately in a few seconds.

 

 

 

And then you woke up and realised it was a dream.......



Homer_J #3 Posted 01 May 2019 - 08:58 PM

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View Postlutsinho, on 01 May 2019 - 08:40 PM, said:


- SPG's have to anticipate movements of opponents.
 

 

 

You don't play arty do you?

 

When I'm aiming at a scout doing 65kph I don't follow it around the map.  I aim at a spot on it's little circuit and wait for it to come to me.  The reason it's so easy to hit people is they are so predictable.  Your change will change nothing.


Edited by Homer_J, 01 May 2019 - 08:59 PM.


WindSplitter1 #4 Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:19 PM

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I sincerely don't understand why people apologizing for playing arty when there are so many worst vehicles in the game.

Then again, if all of us can play clicker, that were made available to do just that, tbh, I don't see the need to apologize at all. Much less when you factor in a game room, no one simply gives a darn.



1ncompetenc3 #5 Posted 01 May 2019 - 09:38 PM

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I'm not even convinced there will be less stun. If there's more than one SPG per team and one of them notices he's firing right after the other at the same target and therefore not getting as much stun time as he could, chances are he'll hold his shot until the first SPG's stun has worn off before firing. For the people on the receiving end this means they spend more time with a potato crew.

lutsinho #6 Posted 01 May 2019 - 10:15 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 01 May 2019 - 07:58 PM, said:

 

You don't play arty do you?

 

When I'm aiming at a scout doing 65kph I don't follow it around the map.  I aim at a spot on it's little circuit and wait for it to come to me.  The reason it's so easy to hit people is they are so predictable.  Your change will change nothing.

 

Ok maybe I worded it not completely correct. -SPG's have to anticipate more.

7thSyndicate #7 Posted 02 May 2019 - 02:43 AM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 01 May 2019 - 08:19 PM, said:

I sincerely don't understand why people apologizing for playing arty when there are so many worst vehicles in the game.

Then again, if all of us can play clicker, that were made available to do just that, tbh, I don't see the need to apologize at all. Much less when you factor in a game room, no one simply gives a darn.

 

Its all wg fault, if there was limit of 1 arty per team no one was talking about artys at all

WoT_RU_Doing #8 Posted 02 May 2019 - 05:23 AM

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View Post1ncompetenc3, on 01 May 2019 - 08:38 PM, said:

I'm not even convinced there will be less stun. If there's more than one SPG per team and one of them notices he's firing right after the other at the same target and therefore not getting as much stun time as he could, chances are he'll hold his shot until the first SPG's stun has worn off before firing. For the people on the receiving end this means they spend more time with a potato crew.

 

We shall see, but in effect I think it'll prove to be a nerf for the BC 155 58....if you only have one visible target and have to wait for the stun to die down to get the max effect rather than emptying your clip at full speed, it stands to reason that the DPM will decrease

Homer_J #9 Posted 02 May 2019 - 08:29 AM

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View Postlutsinho, on 01 May 2019 - 10:15 PM, said:

 

Ok maybe I worded it not completely correct. -SPG's have to anticipate more.

 

They already have mega dispersion for moving even just the gun, and if you hit the edge of your arc then you get a circle the size of Ensk, and aim time you measure with a calendar.  Trust me, no arty is following you around the map, you are just not as unpredictable as you thing you are, you being anyone including these 1337 streamers.

 

And do you know what else is utterly predictable?  Arty is.  And when you learn to predict it then you will get surprised by it much less often.



Zylon0 #10 Posted 02 May 2019 - 11:16 AM

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Why nerf arty at all? its not that enjoyable to play and got worse after patch 1.5.

 

Here is my suggestion instead. Buff arty

More damage, higher fire rate, more accuracy, faster aim time, lower shell time,

more hitpoints, more camo.

 

Back before "all" the nerfs to arty started. It was enjoyable to play arty.

You would not hit as often due to reload being twice as long and arty being less accurate, but when you hit oooh satisfaction.

 

That also means your tanks for hit less often. The thing most complain about.



Geno1isme #11 Posted 02 May 2019 - 11:18 AM

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I don't think you idea would work with the current aiming system. Actually tracking (as in following) a moving target often requires very little gun movement if he moves along your gunline instead of across it, so even if you increase dispersion softstats by factor 5 it won't make much of a difference for those cases, just having to add like 10-20m more lead.

 

I get your idea (proposed sth similar myself when discussing the 9.18 changes back then), but it probably requires changing the aiming mechanics itself, not just adjusting the stats.



Rati_Festa #12 Posted 02 May 2019 - 12:50 PM

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The arty missions are the main problem with arty for me... encouraging people to play something that irratates a large proportion of the player base was never a good idea. Removing arty missions would instantly reduce the amount in games, the hardcore arty fans could still play happily while the rest of us don't feel obliged to play them for credits/missions. Instant reduction of toxicity and a better playing environment for all.

Edited by Rati_Festa, 02 May 2019 - 12:51 PM.


shikaka9 #13 Posted 02 May 2019 - 12:55 PM

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this suggestion is very stunning :trollface:

lutsinho #14 Posted 02 May 2019 - 01:59 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 02 May 2019 - 07:29 AM, said:

 

They already have mega dispersion for moving even just the gun, and if you hit the edge of your arc then you get a circle the size of Ensk, and aim time you measure with a calendar.  Trust me, no arty is following you around the map, you are just not as unpredictable as you thing you are, you being anyone including these 1337 streamers.

 

And do you know what else is utterly predictable?  Arty is.  And when you learn to predict it then you will get surprised by it much less often.

 

My experience with the russian tier 8 and 9 is that when you swing your gun around to the other side of the map the bloom is small and you can re-engage targets quickly. Furthermore when only moving the gun I find the bloom small. So I found I could follow a moving tank without much bloom untill I determined his path and the lead I want to give. 
However, I guess we have a different idea of small bloom, fast aiming etc. 

 

View PostGeno1isme, on 02 May 2019 - 10:18 AM, said:

I don't think you idea would work with the current aiming system. Actually tracking (as in following) a moving target often requires very little gun movement if he moves along your gunline instead of across it, so even if you increase dispersion softstats by factor 5 it won't make much of a difference for those cases, just having to add like 10-20m more lead.

 

I get your idea (proposed sth similar myself when discussing the 9.18 changes back then), but it probably requires changing the aiming mechanics itself, not just adjusting the stats.

 

I did not realise the discrapancy regarding bloom when traversing the gun up and down and when moving SPG and gun to the left or right.

However, the idea is that when you miscalculate you cannot easily move your gun sight 20-30 up down left or right without a large bloom. Which now is in my experience quite easily with a small bloom. Eventhough It would only be affected by gun traverse bloom, when that bloom is way higher it should give a way larger bloom and require more time to accuratly shoot.

 



Bordhaw #15 Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:34 PM

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View Postlutsinho, on 01 May 2019 - 07:40 PM, said:


This made me think of a possible rebalance: increase the dispersion during movement and rotation and decrease aim time. My idea is to do it quite drastically. To balance it the time to fully aim in could/should be faster then now. However because of the larger dispersion values the accuracy when aiming in to what for example would be 80 percent now will be (way) worse.  

 

I would like to know what others think of this idea and if they see it as viable?

 

 

 



vixu #16 Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:35 PM

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View Postlutsinho, on 01 May 2019 - 08:40 PM, said:

....

This would make SPG's hit less shots so there should be some more rebalance of other charecteristics to make up for this.
The most logically I think would be to increase the DMG, If you get hit you get hit harder but there is more you can do to avoid being hit. I would prefer this then to bleed hitpoints by getting hit again and again without a lot of possibilities to avoid this.

 

I would like to know what others think of this idea and if they see it as viable?

 

 

 

Me thinks that idea of making arty more useless then it is now is useless.

 

Your vague "some more rebalance of other charecteristics to make up for this" will not happen, cause it will gradually lead to pre 9.18 arty, that was not hitting much, but when it did, you would get a 1-shot out of any tier. 

 

 



lutsinho #17 Posted 02 May 2019 - 07:35 PM

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View Postvixu, on 02 May 2019 - 05:35 PM, said:

 

Me thinks that idea of making arty more useless then it is now is useless.

 

Your vague "some more rebalance of other charecteristics to make up for this" will not happen, cause it will gradually lead to pre 9.18 arty, that was not hitting much, but when it did, you would get a 1-shot out of any tier. 

 

 

 

Yes that is one of the ideas hitting less but harder.
There should be something improved otherwise it would just make it more useless to use your own words. And there are not a lot of options left for this if you already adjust dispersion and aim time, so DMG, reload time, accuracy and mobility would be options. Mobility would be a difficult one because I think you should alter it a lot to really make a difference. However, the reload or accuracy could also be improved.
 






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