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Centurion Tank: History of a True Legionnaire


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_217_ #21 Posted 02 May 2019 - 01:38 PM

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I like this kind of background stories. Hope to see more of those! 



vuque #22 Posted 02 May 2019 - 01:51 PM

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View PostFryTheFly, on 02 May 2019 - 01:11 PM, said:

Good to know more from tanks. But now there is voice in my head "must grind centurions" :P

 

Hope you will enjoy! ;)

parim1331 #23 Posted 02 May 2019 - 04:00 PM

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View PostsgtPompom, on 02 May 2019 - 09:10 AM, said:

Yay! I love this tank! Probably the best tank of early cold war era.

 

When it comes to cold war, personally, I'd rather go more towards the eastern bloc, especially T-64's/T-72's

 

View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 02 May 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

The article is partially correct, but it is missing the Centurion's finest hours in combat, the Golan Heights sector in the 1973 Yom Kippur War.

Battles in which 20 Centurions faced off 200-300 Syrian T54/55/62's and picked them off from ranges of up to 4km.

Tzvika Greengold's heroics, Avigdor Kahalani and OZ77's heroics.  Saving Israel despite Odds that are inconceivable.

 

There is no tank that Israeli's (patriotic ones) hold in higher regard then the Centurion.  

 

Interesting, care to share some more information?

 

View Postageens, on 02 May 2019 - 12:50 PM, said:

 

not Browning?

 

Fixed, thank you for pointing out the mistake!

FendaBenda #24 Posted 02 May 2019 - 04:04 PM

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Amde of ammo racks, what is the point in traing crew when it doesnt work. 

Mk 1 track and ammo rack at the same time low alpha - no use in forntline battles

GJ WG, make sure those russian tanks get a buff pls, think i penned one the other day



Mia_Culpa #25 Posted 02 May 2019 - 05:23 PM

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View Postparim1331, on 02 May 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:

 

When it comes to cold war, personally, I'd rather go more towards the eastern bloc, especially T-64's/T-72's

 

 

Interesting, care to share some more information?

 

 

Fixed, thank you for pointing out the mistake!

 

https://en.wikipedia...Valley_of_Tears

 

https://en.wikipedia...vigdor_Kahalani

 

https://en.wikipedia...Zvika_Greengold

 

http://www.badassoft.../greengold.html

 

All great reads.  Both were recipients of the Medal of Valor.  The highest military honor Israeli soldiers can achieve.

 

Greengold in particular was credited with over 60 kills in 30 hours of combat before he succumbed to his wounds and collapsed.  (he did not get killed, he survived the war).  He switched at least 3 tanks (that were hit) in the process.  A kill ratio of 20-1 is no joke at all.


Edited by DA_ZOHAN, 02 May 2019 - 05:26 PM.


reddog102 #26 Posted 02 May 2019 - 05:23 PM

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Just free xp’d From my Crommy to Centurian Mk 1.  Decided Comet not for me. Only have the 17pdr, but so far ok against other tier VIII and lower and muppet Tier iX players. Useless vs Tier X, but so far only 1 battle in new MM. So thank you wargaming for fixing this. Tier VIII now much more playable.  So with that TOTT this month I’m going to have a grind and bump this month. Final verdict to follow, but agree that you get ammo racked a lot and stock turret gets penned a lot, still the 17pdr is much better than I expected and I can always press the 2 key twice when my regular ammo keeps bouncing.

pecopad #27 Posted 02 May 2019 - 05:24 PM

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Shame that WG makes no justice to the Centurian, and no I'm not one of the ones who think the problem is the Russian Bias, although the centurion was the best medium tank without reactive Armour.

 

Since it were Russians that developed the concept, I have no problems of Russian meds being good, although having the best tier 9 being German is quite a bias show (The T55a)

 

Problem IMHO is having German bias,  and now a very clear Swedish bias.


Edited by pecopad, 02 May 2019 - 05:26 PM.


Han951753 #28 Posted 02 May 2019 - 06:11 PM

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you see the centurion mk3 can have a 20 pounder B gun, so why does the tier 8 centurion only have a 20 pounder A? Please give it a 20 pounder B to make the game fair

comercio_ro #29 Posted 02 May 2019 - 07:12 PM

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The Jewish Centurion (Centurion modernized by IDF with a new gun and firing mechanism) reaped havoc among Syrian army and Arab allies in the Golan Heights during the War of Yom Kippur. Outnumbered 1 to 15 in some areas, the Centurions managed to hold the advance of the Syrian led army equipped with the latest Soviet Main Battle Tanks: T62A and T54.

The truth is, the Soviet tanks didn't do well when fighting Western tanks.

Here is the book of a tank battalion commander from the War of Yom Kippur: https://www.amazon.c...sr=8-1-fkmrnull

https://en.wikipedia...e_Golan_Heights



comercio_ro #30 Posted 02 May 2019 - 07:46 PM

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View PostDA_ZOHAN, on 02 May 2019 - 06:23 PM, said:

 

https://en.wikipedia...Valley_of_Tears

 

https://en.wikipedia...vigdor_Kahalani

 

https://en.wikipedia...Zvika_Greengold

 

http://www.badassoft.../greengold.html

 

All great reads.  Both were recipients of the Medal of Valor.  The highest military honor Israeli soldiers can achieve.

 

Greengold in particular was credited with over 60 kills in 30 hours of combat before he succumbed to his wounds and collapsed.  (he did not get killed, he survived the war).  He switched at least 3 tanks (that were hit) in the process.  A kill ratio of 20-1 is no joke at all.

 

IDF raped the Syrian army and its allies in spite of surprise and lack of night vision. T62s and T54s have been humiliated.

18:52 Added after 5 minutes

View Postcomercio_ro, on 02 May 2019 - 08:46 PM, said:

 

IDF raped the Syrian army and its allies in spite of surprise and lack of night vision. T62s and T54s have been humiliated.

 

I would add the book of a tank batalion commander: https://www.amazon.c...sr=8-1-fkmrnull

Mia_Culpa #31 Posted 02 May 2019 - 08:01 PM

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View Postcomercio_ro, on 02 May 2019 - 08:46 PM, said:

 

IDF raped the Syrian army and its allies in spite of surprise and lack of night vision. T62s and T54s have been humiliated.

18:52 Added after 5 minutes

 

I would add the book of a tank batalion commander: https://www.amazon.c...sr=8-1-fkmrnull

 

Avigdor Kahalani is on record accounting for a night battle in which he was using the only night vision equipment issued to Israeli tank crews at the time, an infra red bino, vs Syrian tanks which were equipped with the latest infra red scopes for gunners, with infra red projectors.  11:30 in the video for that specific description.



Skunk_workz #32 Posted 02 May 2019 - 09:32 PM

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WG...text..... and chose the aviation engine Meteor.   The Meteor engine was not an aviation engine; it was a tank engine developed from the Rolls Royce Merlin.

Pity it wasn't mentioned how many countries bought it.

Other wise nice write up....well done.


Edited by Skunk_workz, 03 May 2019 - 11:58 PM.


AmechsRgods #33 Posted 02 May 2019 - 10:49 PM

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To be fair to Wg, the fact the in game cents get penned easy is somewhat true of the real Cents. The bits they leave out of the glory stories about the cent, was it could be penned. What was great about the Cent, from a army point of view, was it's remarkably quirky ability at surviving being penned. Can't say the same for the crew but a few buckets of water sorts out the squimish bits. Add fresh crew, Weld in the "mushroom" (an actual literal battlefield repair, Steel mushroom headed plug that got welded into the penetration holes. These were found in three common sizes given the likely ammo used against them at the time. The wiring of the Cent, black boxes (Electronics) etc were also fairly easy to repair or swap out if needed. It was just odd they did not "brew up" ( Burn and usually blow turret off). Or not so odd given how the UK designed the ammo stowage.

 

The key factor with the IDF V Syrians in the 70s was the Cents good gun depression and the fact the IDF was sat ontop of the Golan heights, all tank armour is paper thin on the roof and eng decks :) To hit the IDF Cents, the Iranians and co had to 1. Elevate high enough 2.shoot through cliff faces or be at extreme angles if they managed to hit an IDF tank. Got more interesting once IDF came down from heights to finish of a now decimated and demorolised/confused Syrian attack.

 

Yes, the Merlin (Spitfire) derived Meteor engine was also powerful and more reliable than the Cheiftains engine thats for sure. It was petrol though which was a bit of a risk but again, I can't recall one that went up in flames. Hot swapping out the sparkplugs was a fun (not) task. Last used by the Brits in First Gulf war as engnr support tanks. One blew its self to bits. No realy, into lots of bits. The thing was packed with explosives and the eng caught fire. It rained Cent parts on us over a kay away.

 

Was not at the IDK/Syrian shindig personal, was taught by peeps who were though. Got my fun in from GW1 onwards.

Drove a Cent (87) and broke it, fixed it, broke it proper and got told to bugger off and go play with the Cheiftain varients as punishment. Challenger 1 was the MBT of that time but a few cents were REME ARRV's still, with Chieftians making up the rest until we got CHARRV in time for GW1

 

If they play Chieftain in WG properly. It would last 2 min, move out of the start area and promptly throw a piston, burnout gearbox and remain there for entire battle. If it managed to not brakedown, then it should get minus camo score for the dirty great black smoke plumes it made and could be seen for miles.

As for T64 and 72, pure lol. As we found out in UK army, the so called feared T64/72 guns were fairly crap and the ammo they were supplied with made them even more so. All the hyped figures and stats about pen, vel and accuracy were miles of the mark. We had several models of each type, even a couple of T80s. All had been tested along with a good varation of the ammo. And before anyone jumps in on "Export versions". Yes we had some of those but we had actual, as used by CCCP "RED COMMIE" varients as well. The 80's was a time filled by shady buggers selling anything you want :) The yanks and the Brits bought some nice, low milage ones, then tested them to destruction mostly. Got to drive one around W1 training area near Bovington, a T72 standard. Compact and no frills compared to western tanks, very mobile and quick off the mark. Needed a small stature crew as they were clostrophobicly cramped to operate.


Edited by AmechsRgods, 02 May 2019 - 10:54 PM.


kwk75l48 #34 Posted 03 May 2019 - 12:17 AM

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centurion mk 4 with 95mm howitzer. umm really are you sure because from what I have read that was not a cent mk 4 but a command and observation tank with a dummy 95mm in place in korea it was the only one and as far as I know it never had  a real gun. any chance you could stop equipping real tanks with overpowered howitzers in general so those who cant aim or be bothered with targeting weak spots in general can do well (not that a 95mm armed cent would be any ones choice)
23:23 Added after 5 minutes

oh yeah is not the south African Oliphant an upgraded centurion that would have killed a lot of soviet tat in southern Africa given the chance.

 



Mia_Culpa #35 Posted 03 May 2019 - 12:29 PM

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View PostAmechsRgods, on 02 May 2019 - 11:49 PM, said:

To be fair to Wg, the fact the in game cents get penned easy is somewhat true of the real Cents. The bits they leave out of the glory stories about the cent, was it could be penned. What was great about the Cent, from a army point of view, was it's remarkably quirky ability at surviving being penned. Can't say the same for the crew but a few buckets of water sorts out the squimish bits. Add fresh crew, Weld in the "mushroom" (an actual literal battlefield repair, Steel mushroom headed plug that got welded into the penetration holes. These were found in three common sizes given the likely ammo used against them at the time. The wiring of the Cent, black boxes (Electronics) etc were also fairly easy to repair or swap out if needed. It was just odd they did not "brew up" ( Burn and usually blow turret off). Or not so odd given how the UK designed the ammo stowage.

 

The key factor with the IDF V Syrians in the 70s was the Cents good gun depression and the fact the IDF was sat ontop of the Golan heights, all tank armour is paper thin on the roof and eng decks :) To hit the IDF Cents, the Iranians and co had to 1. Elevate high enough 2.shoot through cliff faces or be at extreme angles if they managed to hit an IDF tank. Got more interesting once IDF came down from heights to finish of a now decimated and demorolised/confused Syrian attack.

 

Yes, the Merlin (Spitfire) derived Meteor engine was also powerful and more reliable than the Cheiftains engine thats for sure. It was petrol though which was a bit of a risk but again, I can't recall one that went up in flames. Hot swapping out the sparkplugs was a fun (not) task. Last used by the Brits in First Gulf war as engnr support tanks. One blew its self to bits. No realy, into lots of bits. The thing was packed with explosives and the eng caught fire. It rained Cent parts on us over a kay away.

 

Was not at the IDK/Syrian shindig personal, was taught by peeps who were though. Got my fun in from GW1 onwards.

Drove a Cent (87) and broke it, fixed it, broke it proper and got told to bugger off and go play with the Cheiftain varients as punishment. Challenger 1 was the MBT of that time but a few cents were REME ARRV's still, with Chieftians making up the rest until we got CHARRV in time for GW1

 

If they play Chieftain in WG properly. It would last 2 min, move out of the start area and promptly throw a piston, burnout gearbox and remain there for entire battle. If it managed to not brakedown, then it should get minus camo score for the dirty great black smoke plumes it made and could be seen for miles.

As for T64 and 72, pure lol. As we found out in UK army, the so called feared T64/72 guns were fairly crap and the ammo they were supplied with made them even more so. All the hyped figures and stats about pen, vel and accuracy were miles of the mark. We had several models of each type, even a couple of T80s. All had been tested along with a good varation of the ammo. And before anyone jumps in on "Export versions". Yes we had some of those but we had actual, as used by CCCP "RED COMMIE" varients as well. The 80's was a time filled by shady buggers selling anything you want :) The yanks and the Brits bought some nice, low milage ones, then tested them to destruction mostly. Got to drive one around W1 training area near Bovington, a T72 standard. Compact and no frills compared to western tanks, very mobile and quick off the mark. Needed a small stature crew as they were clostrophobicly cramped to operate.

 

The T64 was never exported, and only saw combat in Afghanistan against the Mujahadeen.

The T72 did see combat, and was decimated against the Merkava mk 1 and 2, and GW1 and 2 era tanks.



AmechsRgods #36 Posted 04 May 2019 - 12:04 AM

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True, it was the T62 and T72's that got exported along with T80's these days. T64 did not get exported mainly due to the two problems with it. Not because the USSR was unwilling to sell it.

T64 was did not see action in Afghanistan, a few were tested there and they found the engines were even more unreliable at the altitude there. T64's 2 problems, expensive and unreliable. It saw action as the Ukranian upgraded versions in the 2014 conflict. Any other actuall combat has not as yet been reliably proven.



Truntea #37 Posted 04 May 2019 - 08:59 AM

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They should do more news there isn't sales related for sure, I do believe they actually did that in the past.

 

It just makes it more nice to come to their web page.






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