Jump to content


Maus and Panzer 7 nearly arty immune...

Super heavies arty spall liner

  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

The_Naa #21 Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:38 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 6696 battles
  • 1,025
  • [QSF-L] QSF-L
  • Member since:
    11-10-2017

View PostLaatikkomafia, on 03 May 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

 

Spall liners won't change the fact that the basic concept of clickers is broken.

 

neither will nerf in that case.

i know you want them deleted from the game.

i myself do like green arty but i dont like red arty when they shoot at me.

thats why i carry a Spall liner on all my heavy tanks, as im a anti-arty extremist when it comes to playing a heavy tank.



Laatikkomafia #22 Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:40 PM

    Major General

  • Beta Tester
  • 23265 battles
  • 5,039
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    12-27-2010

View PostThe_Naa, on 03 May 2019 - 02:38 PM, said:

 

neither will nerf in that case.

i know you want them deleted from the game.

i myself do like green arty but i dont like red arty when they shoot at me.

thats why i carry a Spall liner on all my heavy tanks, as im a anti-arty extremist when it comes to playing a heavy tank.

 

I'm not a racist, I hate all clickers equally no matter their color :P

Elefantas #23 Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:42 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 52109 battles
  • 234
  • Member since:
    05-02-2011

and yes

yet again turned to an arty hating thread again



WoT_RU_Doing #24 Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:42 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 55145 battles
  • 3,110
  • [-GY-] -GY-
  • Member since:
    07-20-2013

View PostThe_Naa, on 03 May 2019 - 12:38 PM, said:

 

neither will nerf in that case.

i know you want them deleted from the game.

i myself do like green arty but i dont like red arty when they shoot at me.

thats why i carry a Spall liner on all my heavy tanks, as im a anti-arty extremist when it comes to playing a heavy tank.

 

View PostLaatikkomafia, on 03 May 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

 

I'm not a racist, I hate all clickers equally no matter their color :P

 

I guess I am - I hate green arty when it shoots me more than I hate red arty for doing the same.

WindSplitter1 #25 Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:47 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 18831 battles
  • 3,199
  • [ORDEM] ORDEM
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016

View PostWoT_RU_Doing, on 03 May 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

 

 

I guess I am - I hate green arty when it shoots me more than I hate red arty for doing the same.

 

I don't like Red.

 

Spoiler

Edited by WindSplitter1, 03 May 2019 - 04:35 PM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to red text use.


Geno1isme #26 Posted 03 May 2019 - 01:57 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 46708 battles
  • 10,106
  • [TRYIT] TRYIT
  • Member since:
    09-03-2013

View PostDorander, on 03 May 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:

500 hp hits on a splash next to a Maus weren't a thing pre 1.5 unless it hit the engine deck.

 

They were possible under certain conditions if RNG liked you. Maus side armor without spall liner basically absorbs the first 400 HP of any HE shell, and damage above that is reduced by 50%. CGC can roll up to 1500 alpha, so with a max roll it could deal about 550 damage when hitting the side armor of the hull (on near-misses the distance factor plays a role, but that is very situational). Of course such high rolls are pretty rare, and a low roll that misses a Maus with spall liner would do almost no damage in return. Most people don't realize how much of a factor RNG is with HE damage in this context.

 

But yeah, most 500+ hits likely were hitting / splashing into the deck armor.


Edited by Geno1isme, 03 May 2019 - 02:14 PM.


Rati_Festa #27 Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:05 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 47999 battles
  • 2,203
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    02-10-2012

Well just to get it back on track...

 

It definately appears to have been a good update for superheavies that use spall liners. Perhaps not so good though for everyone else :)



tajj7 #28 Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:09 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 27442 battles
  • 15,118
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    03-30-2014

Think the only spall liner change was to stun duration. 

 

Not much has changed regards damage, some of the smaller calibre arties like the Bat Chat will hit a Maus and basically do nothing because often they are hitting like 200mm thick armour.  

 

It's one of the bonuses of having all round thick armour that most super heavy players completely ignore, like all the people who whine about how weak the E100 is because it doesn't have some invulnerable turret, never account for the amount of damage from HE and even AP/APCR/HEAT the thick sides + skirts of the E100 block or reduce, compared to many other tanks that take bigger damage.

 

Like people complain the Super Conqs turret but they don't reallise that pretty much any HE hit does bigger damage to it and any hit from standard shells that doesn't hit either the front of the turret or the upper plate is going to pen almost all of the time, whilst tier 8s bounce off Type 5 and Maus sides all the time, often even flat on. 



Dorander #29 Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:14 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 20562 battles
  • 5,017
  • Member since:
    05-07-2012

View PostGeno1isme, on 03 May 2019 - 12:57 PM, said:

 

They were possible under certain conditions if RNG liked you. Maus side armor without spall liner basically absorbs the first 400 HP of any HE shell, and damage above that is reduced by 50%. CGC can roll up to 1500 alpha, so with a max roll it could deal about 550 damage when hitting the side armor of the hull (on near-misses the distance factor plays a role, but that is very situational). Of course such high rolls are pretty rare, and a low roll that misses a Maus with spall liner would do almost no damage in return. Most people don't realize how much of a factor RNG is with HE damage in this context.

 

But yeah, most 500+ hits likely were hitting / splashing into the deck armor.

 

The post it was in reaction to stated "splash or direct hit" and "spall liner or no", which describes it as an easy and common occurrence. That's a far cry from one specific arty that has to roll max damage, hit you in the side directly and for the Maus to not carry a spall liner. "It can happen" doesn't really qualify for me as "being a thing" either.



Japualtah #30 Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:20 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 31788 battles
  • 1,312
  • Member since:
    04-20-2012

View PostFrantisekBascovansky, on 03 May 2019 - 10:35 AM, said:

High tier arty became even more useless after 1.5 update so it will collect dust in my garage for now.

 

Good!

One clicker less is fine, I wish all could see the light as you did.

 

Here are 2 screen shots I took yesterday after having noticed nothing (line N O T H I N G) had changed for arty and they were hitting as hard as ever and were anti-game as ever.



pecopad #31 Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:21 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 27677 battles
  • 1,828
  • [UGN] UGN
  • Member since:
    09-04-2015

View PostGeno1isme, on 03 May 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

 

They were possible under certain conditions if RNG liked you. Maus side armor without spall liner basically absorbs the first 400 HP of any HE shell, and damage above that is reduced by 50%. CGC can roll up to 1500 alpha, so with a max roll it could deal about 550 damage when hitting the side armor of the hull (on near-misses the distance factor plays a role, but that is very situational). Of course such high rolls are pretty rare, and a low roll that misses a Maus with spall liner would do almost no damage in return. Most people don't realize how much of a factor RNG is with HE damage in this context.

 

But yeah, most 500+ hits likely were hitting / splashing into the deck armor.

 

Shoot He just under the gun or the lower part of the turret cheeks of the Maus for max damage, splashes thee hood. With arty aim to the turret so it splashes the hood....

 

Better to wait and shoot the heavy French tanks supporting, or the American TD's, etc

 

The way to play arty now is to wait for the Tank Cluster and shoot, if there no tank clusters, just suicide,its not worth the time and efford


Edited by pecopad, 03 May 2019 - 02:24 PM.


SuperOlsson #32 Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:26 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 22889 battles
  • 1,091
  • [E-5OM] E-5OM
  • Member since:
    08-07-2012

View PostThe_Naa, on 03 May 2019 - 01:38 PM, said:

 

neither will nerf in that case.

i know you want them deleted from the game.

i myself do like green arty but i dont like red arty when they shoot at me.

thats why i carry a Spall liner on all my heavy tanks, as im a anti-arty extremist when it comes to playing a heavy tank.

Contrary to spall liner a nerf to arty will improve the situation. Because while spall liner help reduce the small damages  from arty, ~sub-100 dmg hits, it does almost nothing to the annoying hits with ~350+ damage. What it should do is just flat out reduce the damage taken by 50%, but now that is not the case, it makes you take ~50 less damage per hit, reduce stun by only a few seconds and prevents you from using a useful piece of equipment, such as optics or vstabs. If you are using spall liner you are crippling yourself.



Geno1isme #33 Posted 03 May 2019 - 02:33 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 46708 battles
  • 10,106
  • [TRYIT] TRYIT
  • Member since:
    09-03-2013

View PostDorander, on 03 May 2019 - 03:14 PM, said:

The post it was in reaction to stated "splash or direct hit" and "spall liner or no", which describes it as an easy and common occurrence. That's a far cry from one specific arty that has to roll max damage, hit you in the side directly and for the Maus to not carry a spall liner. "It can happen" doesn't really qualify for me as "being a thing" either.

 

Yes, 500+ hits were an exception, but 400+ hits already quite normal for large caliber arties like GWE, CGC or T92. The splash changes in 1.5 won't really affect that as those hits require direct hits or very close misses, so distance penalty is hardly relevant for those. Those changes mostly affect smaller-caliber arties and splashing wide (trying to hit mobile targets).

 

View Postpecopad, on 03 May 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

Shoot He just under the gun or the lower part of the turret cheeks of the Maus for max damage, splashes thee hood. With arty aim to the turret so it splashes the hood....

 

Better to wait and shoot the heavy French tanks supporting, or the American TD's, etc

 

When you attempt to aim that precise with arty (with other derp guns the situation is different) you have a high chance that the shell will actually miss the tank completely (horizontal or vertical dispersion) or hit the upper turret front or frontal hull armor, and then you actually loose a lot more damage. Broadside of the hull is a very large surface area, and even if you miss it there is a decent chance that you hit the turret side or the nearby ground and do almost the same amount of damage.

 

 



Schepel #34 Posted 03 May 2019 - 03:03 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 64095 battles
  • 3,355
  • Member since:
    05-13-2013

View PostDorander, on 03 May 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:

 

The post it was in reaction to stated "splash or direct hit" and "spall liner or no", which describes it as an easy and common occurrence. That's a far cry from one specific arty that has to roll max damage, hit you in the side directly and for the Maus to not carry a spall liner. "It can happen" doesn't really qualify for me as "being a thing" either.

 

It happens fairly regularly, and lesser hits like the more common 300 - 400 dmg rolls are, imho, significant as well. It isn't just the Conq, though. The T92 and the GW are equally capable. Point is, super heavies, with or without spall liner, are *not* invulnerable. The French arty is in a bad place, always has been, actually, when it comes to super heavies. Due to stun it can still decide brawls. Perma stun one or two key tanks whilst brawling, and the snowball effect is well and truly on its way to avalanche through a team.

 

I can't say I get hit less in my super heavies, either. Been playing the type (AP gun) and the MAUS for a bit, and so far, I have been the recipient of full arty focus. XVM isn't updated, so the 'usual' stat hunt effect can't have been in effect. Perhaps this will change.



Dorander #35 Posted 03 May 2019 - 04:48 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 20562 battles
  • 5,017
  • Member since:
    05-07-2012

View PostSchepel, on 03 May 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

 

It happens fairly regularly, and lesser hits like the more common 300 - 400 dmg rolls are, imho, significant as well. It isn't just the Conq, though. The T92 and the GW are equally capable. Point is, super heavies, with or without spall liner, are *not* invulnerable. The French arty is in a bad place, always has been, actually, when it comes to super heavies. Due to stun it can still decide brawls. Perma stun one or two key tanks whilst brawling, and the snowball effect is well and truly on its way to avalanche through a team.

 

I can't say I get hit less in my super heavies, either. Been playing the type (AP gun) and the MAUS for a bit, and so far, I have been the recipient of full arty focus. XVM isn't updated, so the 'usual' stat hunt effect can't have been in effect. Perhaps this will change.

 

Of course they aren't invulnerable.

 

Taking 300-400 damage is of course significant but shaving off 100ish damage per artyhit is significant as well. Maus with spall liner simply survives a lot longer than Maus without spall liner. Against lower tier arties it gets outright giggleworthy, taking 0-50 damage per shot.

 

XVM was updated yesterday with a small bug for combat results but otherwise completely functional in terms of playing battles, and the combat results bug got a workaround today. Apparently it still has bugs but I'm not sure which ones, it operates normally for me, so there ought to be no change in the supposed focus.



pecopad #36 Posted 03 May 2019 - 04:52 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 27677 battles
  • 1,828
  • [UGN] UGN
  • Member since:
    09-04-2015

View PostDorander, on 03 May 2019 - 04:48 PM, said:

 

Of course they aren't invulnerable.

 

Taking 300-400 damage is of course significant but shaving off 100ish damage per artyhit is significant as well. Maus with spall liner simply survives a lot longer than Maus without spall liner. Against lower tier arties it gets outright giggleworthy, taking 0-50 damage per shot.

 

XVM was updated yesterday with a small bug for combat results but otherwise completely functional in terms of playing battles, and the combat results bug got a workaround today. Apparently it still has bugs but I'm not sure which ones, it operates normally for me, so there ought to be no change in the supposed focus.

 

It wasn't a small bug, because premium account users couldn't apply the 3x bonus since it wasn't possible to access the battle results, so many uninstalled XVM.

Schepel #37 Posted 03 May 2019 - 04:55 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 64095 battles
  • 3,355
  • Member since:
    05-13-2013

View PostDorander, on 03 May 2019 - 04:48 PM, said:

 

Of course they aren't invulnerable.

 

Taking 300-400 damage is of course significant but shaving off 100ish damage per artyhit is significant as well. Maus with spall liner simply survives a lot longer than Maus without spall liner. Against lower tier arties it gets outright giggleworthy, taking 0-50 damage per shot.

 

XVM was updated yesterday with a small bug for combat results but otherwise completely functional in terms of playing battles, and the combat results bug got a workaround today. Apparently it still has bugs but I'm not sure which ones, it operates normally for me, so there ought to be no change in the supposed focus.

 

https://modxvm.com/en/download-xvm/

 

There is no xvm for 1.5 available for download at the moment of posting. Perhaps a nightly build is, but I am not at all sure that the nightly builds are widely used. When I tried yesterday, it got me crashing to desktop, hard. Playing other tanks, I suffer noticeably less from tactically unexplainable 'attention', so I do believe xvm is not (yet) back in use at its usual level.



Dorander #38 Posted 03 May 2019 - 05:02 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 20562 battles
  • 5,017
  • Member since:
    05-07-2012

View PostSchepel, on 03 May 2019 - 03:55 PM, said:

 

https://modxvm.com/en/download-xvm/

 

There is no xvm for 1.5 available for download at the moment of posting. Perhaps a nightly build is, but I am not at all sure that the nightly builds are widely used. When I tried yesterday, it got me crashing to desktop, hard. Playing other tanks, I suffer noticeably less from tactically unexplainable 'attention', so I do believe xvm is not (yet) back in use at its usual level.

 

I use Aslain's modpack, there's an updated version in there for 1.5. Guess he has a direct line to the XVM people for his modpack setup so he can include beta versions.

Fawlty_Turrets #39 Posted 03 May 2019 - 09:13 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 20580 battles
  • 1,575
  • Member since:
    04-18-2011

View PostRati_Festa, on 03 May 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

I noticed since the update my Maus and Panzer 7 with spall liners installed appear to be nearly immune to arty damage. Which at first appears great for me... but then I realised that once this becomes common knowledge ( ironically me posting about it problem won't help that  :) ) that arty players will stop focusing big lumbering targets and aim at more vulnerable enemies.

 

Isn't arty in the game to assist with dealing with super heavies/high armour TDs? and this poses the question how are the changes making the game better? Changing for changing sake isn't a good development plan for any project.

 

Am I right in thinking that when arty "bounces" off me it doesn't count to my shell bounce?

 

Don't worry-people can still pay to ignore the armour:)

VonniVidiVici #40 Posted 03 May 2019 - 09:50 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 38313 battles
  • 12,108
  • Member since:
    03-18-2013

View PostRati_Festa, on 03 May 2019 - 10:00 AM, said:

Isn't arty in the game to assist with dealing with super heavies/high armour TDs?

 

No. Arty is there to annoy the sh't out of people, nothing more, nothing less.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users