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Changes to Japanese and German Mediums

Supertest tier 9 tier 8 german japanese mediums

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XxKuzkina_MatxX #21 Posted 06 May 2019 - 06:38 AM

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View PostgunslingerXXX, on 06 May 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:

Seems fair, however this is even more powercreep for my CDC.

Somehow the CDC is excellent at evading buffs. If it was only half as good at evading incoming shells...

 



pallie_the_artillerist #22 Posted 06 May 2019 - 07:30 AM

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yey more powercreep

 

 



Hezs #23 Posted 06 May 2019 - 07:34 AM

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Good changes on leopard pta, sta-1 and sta-2. Type 61 would not need any mobility nerfs. 

Mutz changes are nice but not enough. Tiny dpm, accuracy and damage buff does not make this tank competetive enough against mediums like progetto and t-44-100. Gunhandling needs a buff also. 


Edited by Hezs, 06 May 2019 - 07:35 AM.


bbmoose #24 Posted 06 May 2019 - 07:39 AM

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Tier 8's with more than 200 mm of pen getting 2k dpm or more... It closes the gap with the tier 9's, but also with other tier 8's.

 

Meanwhile, the Pershing cries in the corner. I hope they will give all the other meds some love too.

 

On the other hand: with dpm and alpha increasing, I think it's time for some HP buffs. Games will be over even quicker this way. Mainly for the lower tiers. Tier 6's can be killed in seconds when they make a mistake.



Nishi_Kinuyo #25 Posted 06 May 2019 - 05:03 PM

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View Postpallie_the_artillerist, on 06 May 2019 - 07:30 AM, said:

yey more powercreep

 

 

Excuse me?

The Jap MT and Leo1 lines are one of the more powercrept lines currently in the game.

They deserve buffs.



Dava_117 #26 Posted 06 May 2019 - 05:49 PM

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Nice buffs. Not completely sure about the STA-1 dispersion nerf, as the gun already feel derpy (and I have a full girly crew in it). Everything else looks interesting. :)

Edited by Dava_117, 06 May 2019 - 05:49 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #27 Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:56 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 06 May 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:

Nice buffs. Not completely sure about the STA-1 dispersion nerf, as the gun already feel derpy (and I have a full girly crew in it). Everything else looks interesting. :)

 

It's a minor nuisance but with 2.3k DPM, it'll be the 2nd best after the 416 with its 0.35 dispersion and also the 2nd best in terms of penetration. As a platform though it's much better than the 416.

XxKuzkina_MatxX #28 Posted 14 May 2019 - 12:00 PM

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Some changes were made (marked with green in the OP) and it looks like the final version since the CT for 1.5.1 will start on the 17th of May.

 

Too bad the STA-2 lost the DPM buff!



pallie_the_artillerist #29 Posted 14 May 2019 - 12:07 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 06 May 2019 - 05:03 PM, said:

Excuse me?

The Jap MT and Leo1 lines are one of the more powercrept lines currently in the game.

They deserve buffs.

 

And what about every other tank that is currently underperforming? They will become even worse with these changes. The sustainable way to balance a game is to nerf what overperforms, not buff what underperforms.

Rati_Festa #30 Posted 14 May 2019 - 12:09 PM

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View Postpallie_the_artillerist, on 14 May 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

 

And what about every other tank that is currently underperforming? They will become even worse with these changes. The sustainable way to balance a game is to nerf what overperforms, not buff what underperforms.

 

They have nerfed what over performs... the jap heavies

 

WG appear to be setting a new line and bringing tanks either up to it or down depending on the individual tank. It will take them years but at least they are making sensible changes.



FatigueGalaxy #31 Posted 14 May 2019 - 06:08 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 14 May 2019 - 12:00 PM, said:

 

Too bad the STA-2 lost the DPM buff!

I don't mind it.

STA-2 - faster, better aiming time and gun handling (after STA-1 changes?).

STA-1 - more firepower.

 

Currently premium version is a better tank so it's nice to see that they are making some changes to standard tech tree tank.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #32 Posted 14 May 2019 - 06:38 PM

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View PostFatigueGalaxy, on 14 May 2019 - 09:08 PM, said:

I don't mind it.

STA-2 - faster, better aiming time and gun handling (after STA-1 changes?).

STA-1 - more firepower.

 

Currently premium version is a better tank so it's nice to see that they are making some changes to standard tech tree tank.

 

Currently the STA-2 performs slightly worse, at 49.26% overall win rate, than the STA-1 at 49.77% overall win rate.

 

STA-1 win rate curve:

 

STA-2 win rate curve:

 

Both are crap along with many tier 8 mediums and you're splitting hairs!


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 14 May 2019 - 07:15 PM.


If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #33 Posted 14 May 2019 - 11:41 PM

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I'm quite pleased with the STA2 buffs, looking forwards to more mobility and improved gun handling

Mobility is critical in the current game

The DPM is ok, add on 10 to 20% for a rammer and crew bits n bobs


Edited by If_I_Die_You_Die_Too, 14 May 2019 - 11:42 PM.


tajj7 #34 Posted 15 May 2019 - 08:30 AM

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STA-2 changes look close to pointless now to me, and the Indien/Mutz changes are also pretty worthless, can't see any of those improving the actual competitiveness of those tanks.

 

Leo PTA looks good though and the STA-1 changes are ok. 

 

Why they thought those STA-2 changes were too good was beyond me. Kind of shows how stupid WGs super test is to be honest, STA-2 is too good with a 15% DPM buff, but minor nerfs to the 430/430U get cancelled because reasons. 


Edited by tajj7, 15 May 2019 - 08:31 AM.


Nishi_Kinuyo #35 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:01 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 15 May 2019 - 08:30 AM, said:

Why they thought those STA-2 changes were too good was beyond me. Kind of shows how stupid WGs super test is to be honest, STA-2 is too good with a 15% DPM buff, but minor nerfs to the 430/430U get cancelled because reasons. 

*cough* Tsushima *cough*

That, and because there's too much russian bias to ever really nerf russian tanks unless it is part of a global class nerf.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #36 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:19 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 15 May 2019 - 05:01 PM, said:

*cough* Tsushima *cough*

That, and because there's too much russian bias to ever really nerf russian tanks unless it is part of a global class nerf.

 

Silly, off topic nonsense really!

 

We are talking about how much of a buff is enough for these tanks to be viable and you're talking about ancient history of an empire that doesn't exist anymore? It's a company my dear not a nation, it doesn't have a foreign policy!

 

What it does have is numbers and account balances. If the demand for a certain premium is already saturated there is no use buffing it since not many will start buying it again yet that will indirectly hurt the chances of new sales.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 15 May 2019 - 02:49 PM.


BlackBloodBandit #37 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:04 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 04 May 2019 - 06:34 PM, said:

Some changes currently in the supertest for german and japanese medium tanks:

 

  • Panzer 58 Mutz

it wasn't special, it gets nothing special

 

  • Indien Panzer
Aim time buff and changes of HE is good. the rest is nothing special

 

  • Leopard PTA

I doubt 420 alpha will make this tank interesting. seems like the rest of the changes will be good for the tank.

 
  • STA-2

I thought they were going to improve this tank, not nerf it???

shell velocity is still terrible and mobility gets worse. any changes to the gun?

 
  • STA-1

First real improvements I see so far. Everything will make this tank a little bit more competitive, except for the even worse accuracy it already had.

 
  • Type 61

I was going for this tank, but with these changes, I'll never buy it. With this alpha it's a joke. I rather have the alpha and keep the dpm.

The added armor means nothing. and only some gun stats get better. for me it's an overall downgrade, just like I already noticed on STB-1



XxKuzkina_MatxX #38 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:26 PM

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View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

  • Panzer 58 Mutz

it wasn't special, it gets nothing special

 

Alpha, accuracy, shell velocity and HE penetration will make it a better tank for sure.

 

View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

  • Indien Panzer

Aim time buff and changes of HE is good. the rest is nothing special

 

Same as with the Mutz, any buff to a tier 8 medium is welcome even if it's just a gesture from WG to acknowledge the need to buff them.

 

View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

  • Leopard PTA

I doubt 420 alpha will make this tank interesting. seems like the rest of the changes will be good for the tank.

 

This tank was already better than the tier 10 but that doesn't say much. Having the best alpha in its class along with accuracy, penetration and mobility is definitely interesting IMO.

 

View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

  • STA-2

I thought they were going to improve this tank, not nerf it???

shell velocity is still terrible and mobility gets worse. any changes to the gun?

 

They're still buffs but mostly insignificant to make it a viable choice to play!

 

View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

  • Type 61

I was going for this tank, but with these changes, I'll never buy it. With this alpha it's a joke. I rather have the alpha and keep the dpm.

The added armor means nothing. and only some gun stats get better. for me it's an overall downgrade, just like I already noticed on STB-1

 

Just as Desyatnik_Pansy said on the first page, the added armor + lower alpha + worse accuracy ===> doesn't make sense to me at all. It can't and won't do that role, 2nd line support, with any degree of competence.



BlackBloodBandit #39 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:54 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 15 May 2019 - 04:26 PM, said:

View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

  • Panzer 58 Mutz

it wasn't special, it gets nothing special

Alpha, accuracy, shell velocity and HE penetration will make it a better tank for sure.

better doesn't mean the changes are meaningful

View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

  • Indien Panzer

Aim time buff and changes of HE is good. the rest is nothing special

Same as with the Mutz, any buff to a tier 8 medium is welcome even if it's just a gesture from WG to acknowledge the need to buff them.

same as above

View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

  • Leopard PTA

I doubt 420 alpha will make this tank interesting. seems like the rest of the changes will be good for the tank.

This tank was already better than the tier 10 but that doesn't say much. Having the best alpha in its class along with accuracy, penetration and mobility is definitely interesting IMO.

The reload was already garbage for it's tier, so it wasn't good. the rest of the stats are on paper. don't expect to hit something special from long range. 0.3 accuracy doesn't mean that much. also the fact that the premium rounds are changed to APCR, means that they will lose pen over distance, which doesn't help a sniper at all.

View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

  • STA-2

I thought they were going to improve this tank, not nerf it???

shell velocity is still terrible and mobility gets worse. any changes to the gun?

They're still buffs but mostly insignificant to make it a viable choice to play!

This tank doesn't seem worth it to take from Frontline if it is like this. It will be worse then the STA-1 is right now.

View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

  • Type 61

I was going for this tank, but with these changes, I'll never buy it. With this alpha it's a joke. I rather have the alpha and keep the dpm.

The added armor means nothing. and only some gun stats get better. for me it's an overall downgrade, just like I already noticed on STB-1

Just as Desyatnik_Pansy said on the first page, the added armor + lower alpha + worse accuracy ===> doesn't make sense to me at all. It can't and won't do that role, 2nd line support, with any degree of competence.

WG does this to give it it's own role.. doesn't mean that anyone wants to play that role. The tank was fine for me as it was, but like this, I don't want it. Playing against high-alpha guns most of the team, will make the Japanese meds even more something to laugh at. It's like the AMX 30 line: it doesn't make sense to have dpm if you can't make it work because you can't hit your shots reliably.

 



Desyatnik_Pansy #40 Posted 15 May 2019 - 05:09 PM

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View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 15 May 2019 - 04:54 PM, said:

Leopard PTA: The reload was already garbage for it's tier, so it wasn't good. the rest of the stats are on paper. don't expect to hit something special from long range. 0.3 accuracy doesn't mean that much. also the fact that the premium rounds are changed to APCR, means that they will lose pen over distance, which doesn't help a sniper at all.

 

I will absolutely take the Premium APCR over HEAT to be honest, even with it losing pen over distance and that HEAT is viable for the Cheesewedge TDs where APCR is not. I just don't feel comfortable with HEAT most of the time. I'm disappointed they didn't actually keep the change of the standard round from APCR to AP, as I would've absolutely loved the 278mm AP.






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