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Unnecessary Gold Ammo spam "fix" idea

gold ammo fix idea

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SignoreBoom #1 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:19 PM

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First of all, I am by no means a good player and so feel free to steamroll my suggestion.

However, over the course of many battles, I have questioned why so many players deem it necessary to fire gold when:

  1. I'm in a tank with basically paper for armour (Cent.1, 13 75, etc.)
  2. They are driving tank with high pen guns (Skorpion, Cent. AX etc.)
  3. In most cases they are 2 tiers higher than me and so probably have the guns regardless of class to pen me.

I can live with the fact sometimes you'll have a shot loaded that just happens to be gold and so hey, you're not gonna reload a normal round, fire it off. I'm cool with that. What I don't understand is why it's necessary to repeatedly fire gold at a target that doesn't need it. It's hella frustrating to know that no matter what you do, you're just going to get penned and die quickly. (although spamming credits/gold when you don't need to and losing money makes me feel a bit better)

Anyways, my idea would be to introduce a cap on the amount of gold ammo you can bring into battle. This would force you to actually use your credit card gold ammo when you needed it, rather than just loading full gold and firing it everywhere. Personally, I feel this would help perhaps reduce some inequalities between f2p and paying players, and in conjunction with the changes WG say they may make to gold ammo, would help to stop the unnecessary spam of gold ammo. Also it would save you money so hey.

Thoughts?

 



WindSplitter1 #2 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:28 PM

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View PostSignoreBoom, on 05 May 2019 - 04:19 PM, said:

First of all, I am by no means a good player and so feel free to steamroll my suggestion.

However, over the course of many battles, I have questioned why so many players deem it necessary to fire gold when:

  1. I'm in a tank with basically paper for armour (Cent.1, 13 75, etc.)
  2. They are driving tank with high pen guns (Skorpion, Cent. AX etc.)
  3. In most cases they are 2 tiers higher than me and so probably have the guns regardless of class to pen me.

I can live with the fact sometimes you'll have a shot loaded that just happens to be gold and so hey, you're not gonna reload a normal round, fire it off. I'm cool with that. What I don't understand is why it's necessary to repeatedly fire gold at a target that doesn't need it. It's hella frustrating to know that no matter what you do, you're just going to get penned and die quickly. (although spamming credits/gold when you don't need to and losing money makes me feel a bit better)

Anyways, my idea would be to introduce a cap on the amount of gold ammo you can bring into battle. This would force you to actually use your credit card gold ammo when you needed it, rather than just loading full gold and firing it everywhere. Personally, I feel this would help perhaps reduce some inequalities between f2p and paying players, and in conjunction with the changes WG say they may make to gold ammo, would help to stop the unnecessary spam of gold ammo. Also it would save you money so hey.

Thoughts?

 

 

Been suggested a lot of times. WG doesn't care.

 

The whole principle behind "gold ammo" is flawed. Not all shells are alike so, the purpose they serve should also be different. And this is where WG is failing to see.

 

That, on top of a proper armour rebalancing with a viable weakspots policy. They chose a crutch to appease Heavy Tank players while giving everyone else the middle finger.


Edited by WindSplitter1, 05 May 2019 - 05:29 PM.


Homer_J #3 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:28 PM

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View PostSignoreBoom, on 05 May 2019 - 05:19 PM, said:

 

Thoughts?

 

You are right, your idea is unnecessary.

 

Why does it matter to you if they are spending more credits than they need to?  If you aren't going to bounce a standard round then it makes no difference, if you are going the bounce a standard round then premium is the correct decision.



SignoreBoom #4 Posted 05 May 2019 - 06:07 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 05 May 2019 - 05:28 PM, said:

You are right, your idea is unnecessary.

 

Why does it matter to you if they are spending more credits than they need to?  If you aren't going to bounce a standard round then it makes no difference, if you are going the bounce a standard round then premium is the correct decision.

 

Suppose so. Hey ho, I'll take solace then in the fact that someone somewhere is wasting a lot of money to kill a noob.

Edited by SignoreBoom, 05 May 2019 - 06:08 PM.


WindSplitter1 #5 Posted 05 May 2019 - 08:27 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 05 May 2019 - 04:28 PM, said:

If you aren't going to bounce a standard round then it makes no difference, if you are going the bounce a standard round then premium is the correct decision.

 

Well put.

NekoPuffer_PPP #6 Posted 05 May 2019 - 08:34 PM

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Remove premium ammo.

 

Give heavily armored vehicles weakspots, if no frontal weakspots then nerf their traverse to <15°/s.

 

Done.



Dava_117 #7 Posted 05 May 2019 - 08:49 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 05 May 2019 - 05:28 PM, said:

You are right, your idea is unnecessary.

 

Why does it matter to you if they are spending more credits than they need to?  If you aren't going to bounce a standard round then it makes no difference, if you are going the bounce a standard round then premium is the correct decision.

 

To be fair, this would be right if all the shells costed the same while having heavy balancing factor in terms of damage, shell velocity and penetration value drop off. 

As it is now, with premium ammo being basically better than standard ammo this is a flawed logic. It's flawed also because the great majority of tanks still have weackspots and areas where you can pen them with standard ammo.

I can bounce premium ammo in my HTs, but it piss me off a lot the fact that just because an enemy can wast credit I have to be more focused and forced to pay far more attention on my angling when it should be the shooter to pay attention on where he shoot. It's an unfair advantage based not on skill but on wallet dimension.



Noo_Noo #8 Posted 05 May 2019 - 08:49 PM

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Been suggested loads of times already and we've already said it wont work.

Why? 

Because everyone will start driving round in superhevies and there wont be enough premium rounds in the game to deal with them. It will make lights and mediums in particular utterly useless. 

NUKLEAR_SLUG #9 Posted 06 May 2019 - 06:23 AM

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People fire spammo because they can afford to. They can afford to because with WG showering them with credit boosters and events like Xmas/Frontline etc. the player base is drowning in credits.

Want to nerf the amount of spammo? Nerf credit income.

deorum #10 Posted 06 May 2019 - 08:26 AM

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 In a recent match, i was in my humble Cromwell (not the B) and a STRV S1 that was against tier 6 opponents... was firing gold rounds to me. 
 
 I mean it was an STRV, against a paper tier6 tank. 

 Silently i wished that gold ammo was nerfed to the ground. 

SuperOlsson #11 Posted 06 May 2019 - 08:55 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 06 May 2019 - 06:23 AM, said:

People fire spammo because they can afford to. They can afford to because with WG showering them with credit boosters and events like Xmas/Frontline etc. the player base is drowning in credits.

Want to nerf the amount of spammo? Nerf credit income.

 

Won't help, people will still spam gold at your Type 5.

 

Same thing with limiting the amount of gold rounds, they will just be saved for your armored tanks.



BR33K1_PAWAH #12 Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:07 AM

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View PostSignoreBoom, on 05 May 2019 - 07:19 PM, said:

  1. I'm in a tank with basically paper for armour (Cent.1, 13 75, etc.)
  2. They are driving tank with high pen guns (Skorpion, Cent. AX etc.)
  3. In most cases they are 2 tiers higher than me and so probably have the guns regardless of class to pen me.

 

1. They've loaded gold for another target and can't be bothered to load AP. Or otherwise they're just rocking full "speful" ammo setup, so it's either gold or HE.

2. They've loaded gold for another target and can't be bothered to load AP. Or otherwise they're just rocking full "speful" ammo setup, so it's either gold or HE.

3. They've loaded gold for another target and can't be bothered to load AP. Or otherwise they're just rocking full "speful" ammo setup, so it's either gold or HE.



grensu #13 Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:20 AM

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View PostBR33K1_PAWAH, on 06 May 2019 - 10:07 AM, said:

 

1. They've loaded gold for another target and can't be bothered to load AP. Or otherwise they're just rocking full "speful" ammo setup, so it's either gold or HE.

2. They've loaded gold for another target and can't be bothered to load AP. Or otherwise they're just rocking full "speful" ammo setup, so it's either gold or HE.

3. They've loaded gold for another target and can't be bothered to load AP. Or otherwise they're just rocking full "speful" ammo setup, so it's either gold or HE.

 

or ..

 

1. They're a Dinger

2. They're a wannabe Dinger

3. They're an ex-Dinger


Edited by grensu, 06 May 2019 - 09:20 AM.


Jauhesammutin #14 Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:21 AM

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View Postdeorum, on 06 May 2019 - 07:26 AM, said:

 In a recent match, i was in my humble Cromwell (not the B) and a STRV S1 that was against tier 6 opponents... was firing gold rounds to me. 
 
 I mean it was an STRV, against a paper tier6 tank. 

 Silently i wished that gold ammo was nerfed to the ground. 

 

Do you think you could have bounced his normal rounds in your paper tank?

bbmoose #15 Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:32 AM

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View Postdeorum, on 06 May 2019 - 07:26 AM, said:

 In a recent match, i was in my humble Cromwell (not the B) and a STRV S1 that was against tier 6 opponents... was firing gold rounds to me. 
 
 I mean it was an STRV, against a paper tier6 tank. 

 Silently i wished that gold ammo was nerfed to the ground. 

 

Standard ammo would have gone in too. I mainly drive non-Russian mediums, so I never count on armor. Most standard rounds will go in. If someone wants to waste credits on me, it's fine. But yeah, an STRV doesn't need goldammo if it doesn't face tier X. In this particular case it was nothing more than a waste of credits for the STRV driver. 

 

It's more frustrating when you are driving a heavy tank I guess. But I find it more frustrating when I'm driving a midtier heavy and I'm forced to fight other heavies head on. In that situation you are an autopen for the toptiers and you can't do anything in return because of corridors and lack of pen/enemy weakspots. The value of armor is devalued more because of the +2/-2 mm I think.

 

Be careful what you wish for. We are talking about WG. If they nerf goldammo, it is very likely that they won't get the balance right concerning (super)heavy tanks. They can't even get balance right for the current situation, which is already lasting for years. I really doubt that they can adapt to a situation with less powerfull special rounds. Actions regarding balance take ages for them to adres and fix. It means that HP, penvalues, damagevalues, DPM values, shell characteristics and armor models have to be rebalanced. That means an overhaul of the entire game.

 

The most simple way is indeed to limit the amount of special shells a player can carry. But that means that (super)heavies still have to be rebalanced for that. Less HP, slower turning speeds, (so they get more flankable) and things like that. And in the current corridor meta, it's still very likely that heavies will dominate.



Noo_Noo #16 Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:40 AM

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View Postdeorum, on 06 May 2019 - 08:26 AM, said:

 In a recent match, i was in my humble Cromwell (not the B) and a STRV S1 that was against tier 6 opponents... was firing gold rounds to me. 
 
 I mean it was an STRV, against a paper tier6 tank. 

 Silently i wished that gold ammo was nerfed to the ground. 

 

1) I would have been frustrated at myself for allowing myself to be shot more than once by an STRV.

 

2) Standard rounds on the STRV would have done exactly the same to you. It was your fault he was shooting you more than once

3) I would have then chuckled at the credits he was pouring down the sink. What a waste. 

The fact that the STRV was shooting premium ammo made zero difference to the result of the engagement, other than it cost the STRV a bucket load of credits for no reason. 

I really struggle to understand people's frustration at this kind of stuff. It makes zero difference to their game and the fact that they got caught in a bad position. 



UrQuan #17 Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:41 AM

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To be fair, if you are in a paper tank, you want them to shoot prem ammo at you. Especially HEAT. Due to how armor mechanics work, HEAT can fail on even lightly armored targets, while AP & APCR don't have this.

That moment when you shot HEAT at an AMX light & it didn't do a thing? Yes, HEAT shell mechancis in effect (either spaced armor stuff rulles or bouncy angle rules).

 

Also as mentioned, take solace that they wasted a ton of credits on you when standard ammo would have sufficed. I do the same when they fire prem ammo at my KV-4 (or other armored tank ) & it bounces: Congratulations, you wasted your expensive shell on a bounce.

 

Why shooting HEAT at you can be good
Funding the WG servers, the UrQuan way: spam that gold lads!

 


Edited by UrQuan, 06 May 2019 - 09:52 AM.


Jauhesammutin #18 Posted 06 May 2019 - 09:47 AM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 06 May 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

 

1) I would have been frustrated at myself for allowing myself to be shot more than once by an STRV.

 

2) Standard rounds on the STRV would have done exactly the same to you. It was your fault he was shooting you more than once

3) I would have then chuckled at the credits he was pouring down the sink. What a waste. 

The fact that the STRV was shooting premium ammo made zero difference to the result of the engagement, other than it cost the STRV a bucket load of credits for no reason. 

I really struggle to understand people's frustration at this kind of stuff. It makes zero difference to their game and the fact that they got caught in a bad position. 

 

Exactly. Like Homer_J already said. If standard rounds can pen you then premium rounds wouldn't make a difference. If standard rounds would bounce then premium is the right choice.

 

Players like these think that everyone else should shoot standard at them so they can bounce all game. While, obviously, they can shoot and pen whatever they want.



Gremlin182 #19 Posted 06 May 2019 - 10:11 AM

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View PostSignoreBoom, on 05 May 2019 - 05:19 PM, said:

First of all, I am by no means a good player and so feel free to steamroll my suggestion.

However, over the course of many battles, I have questioned why so many players deem it necessary to fire gold when:

  1. I'm in a tank with basically paper for armour (Cent.1, 13 75, etc.)
  2. They are driving tank with high pen guns (Skorpion, Cent. AX etc.)
  3. In most cases they are 2 tiers higher than me and so probably have the guns regardless of class to pen me.

I can live with the fact sometimes you'll have a shot loaded that just happens to be gold and so hey, you're not gonna reload a normal round, fire it off. I'm cool with that. What I don't understand is why it's necessary to repeatedly fire gold at a target that doesn't need it. It's hella frustrating to know that no matter what you do, you're just going to get penned and die quickly. (although spamming credits/gold when you don't need to and losing money makes me feel a bit better)

Anyways, my idea would be to introduce a cap on the amount of gold ammo you can bring into battle. This would force you to actually use your credit card gold ammo when you needed it, rather than just loading full gold and firing it everywhere. Personally, I feel this would help perhaps reduce some inequalities between f2p and paying players, and in conjunction with the changes WG say they may make to gold ammo, would help to stop the unnecessary spam of gold ammo. Also it would save you money so hey.

Thoughts?

 

 

Maybe something does need doing and remember wargaming are "supposedly" about to announce changes they were waiting for enough time to elapse so no one could seriously claim they paid real money for the ammo.

 

I carry an amount of premium ammo decided by how undergunned I feel my tank is.

So my T32 carries 20 premium out of a total ammo load of 43 so nearly 50% given it meets tier 10s and has 198 penetration.

Now some tier 8 heavies have over 230 pen so they could carry fewer and some TDs have well over 250 pen all with standard ammo.

 

So the main problem selecting how much premium ammo each tank in the game can carry based on its penetration damage whether it has an autoloader and the tier.

If you make a general rule of say 6 premium or 10% premium it would mess some tanks up completely leaving others unaffected and with a clear advantage.

I am sure with time they could get around that, its complicated but not impossible.

 

Would it make any difference to the game if they limited premium.

Yes and no imo.

How many premium rounds would it take to kill a tank, because 15 tanks each with 6 premium rounds could easily destroy the enemy team using premium.

I can still destroy a tank using only premium rounds.

 

All it changes is my ability to fight the entire battle with premium and I would only consider doing that if I was trying to achieve a mission.

That I think is the main reason for premium spamming.

If my aim in a battle is to achieve X damage X kills or damage kill X tanks in the first 3 minutes of a battle and if using premium makes that more likely then that is what I will do,

 

Last point Its true I sometimes fire premium ammo at a target that doesn't need it, that is more based on what ammo I have loaded when that target appears and my reloading time.

I have loaded 6 premium rounds in my 50-100 to take on a Maus then it dies and a leopard appears.

I am certainly not going to reload the entire clip, though if they limited premium rounds that would be tough.

Do I use them all up on a target that doesn't need them and risk being helpless if another Maus or similar hard target appears or risk dying to the Leopard by reloading.

Long reload tanks all have this decision to make autoloaders are especially prone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Gremlin182, 06 May 2019 - 10:17 AM.


S_E_N_N_A #20 Posted 06 May 2019 - 10:11 AM

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I have 140 million credits i have to get rid of it somehow:popcorn:





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