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Enemy tanks not seen


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PattonLeather #1 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:26 PM

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Been playing my Centurion 7/1 for a while a noticed something lately that truly annoys me. I have a 3 skill crew with the captain having 6th sense and all having BIA. IN almost every game lately I am getting nailed by tanks I simply cannot see. I can understand not seeing a STRV from a distance but I am talking getting hit twice in the last game I played by a Skopr G (truly crap cammo, I have one and know) and an Emil both from less than 100 meters and still can't see them. It is getting almost worthless to continue playing since every time I shoot even from behind a bush I get spotted instantly.

Etre_ #2 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:29 PM

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They are backing off to 15 m from the bush (until is no longer transparent). You can't spot them then. 

You don't do that. You die. 



Homer_J #3 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:34 PM

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View PostPattonLeather, on 05 May 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

both from less than 100 meters and still can't see them.

How do you know they are less than 100m when you can't see them?

 

Do you have a replay?

 

Bearing in mind this image was a previous claim of 100m

Posted Image

I know, image is getting pretty old now but people are so bad at providing replays.

16:38 Added after 3 minutes

This one was 20m

Posted Image

 

And this apparently 15m

Posted Image


Edited by Homer_J, 05 May 2019 - 05:36 PM.


PattonLeather #4 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:39 PM

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The position I was in only allowed him a view of about that much. I understand the 15 meter rule and do that myself (back off until the bush gets opaque). In some of my cases tanks just disappear in the open. This is a recent thing in the last 100 or so games. Will try to post some replays but I'm on a mac and is not as simple as on windows. Thanks for the help anyway.

jack_timber #5 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:39 PM

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A spotter, unspotted, is spotting you, but you can't see the spotter because he's using his excellent camo/cover which means you can't spot the spotter or the red tank he's spotting for....

Now I have spots before my eyes :)



Homer_J #6 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:41 PM

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View PostPattonLeather, on 05 May 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

The position I was in only allowed him a view of about that much.

The one shooting you does not have to be spotting you.



Dorander #7 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:53 PM

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If you can't see them, how do you know they're 100m away from you? Like Homer said, a replay would really help. This situation sounds like a passive spotter you never saw, and the rest just firing at you from beyond your (effective) spot range.

BravelyRanAway #8 Posted 05 May 2019 - 05:59 PM

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Turning on replays is a sure way to stop such nefarious spotting.

Balc0ra #9 Posted 05 May 2019 - 06:06 PM

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View PostPattonLeather, on 05 May 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

The position I was in only allowed him a view of about that much. I understand the 15 meter rule and do that myself (back off until the bush gets opaque). In some of my cases tanks just disappear in the open. This is a recent thing in the last 100 or so games.

 

Well, that's all fine and dandy. But still, a replay will help understand the situation better to give you a good reply. The last we had complaints about this, the topic creator was on the 2 lane on Prokhorovka. And as you know, that's just a 900m long row of double bushes. And then your 445m view range won't help you detect anything until they are in your face. And not at 100m always.

 

View PostPattonLeather, on 05 May 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

(truly crap cammo, I have one and know)

 

It's not a dead given you will spot him at any range within your circle if he fires. As effective spotting range is a combination of your view range vs his camo. And if he has directives, camo net and 100% camo skill etc on all crews. Your effective spotting range on him even in the open won't be close to 400 even. Crap camo or not.

 

And if he was 100m away. The only thing that could save him was 5-10 rows of double bushes. As 15m behind the bush doesn't give you 100% camo, or prevent you from getting spotted when firing. It just makes it harder. Add a few more bushes breaking LOS between you and him after that. And someone else spotting you for him. Then it will be borderline impossible. As one bush at 100M won't cover him. But a few might at that range. I've been on the 2 lane enough in my SU-100 that has crap camo when firing at targets 150 to 100m away and not gotten spotted. Because I had 5+ bushes between me and the target blocking LOS.

 

View PostPattonLeather, on 05 May 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

Will try to post some replays but I'm on a mac and is not as simple as on windows. Thanks for the help anyway.

 

A screen of the replay paused when he hit you and the camera pointed at that direction can help just as much if you can do that too.



Blubba #10 Posted 05 May 2019 - 06:28 PM

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I played a game on El Halluf. Two heavys on my team had a tank in sight and firing on it. I was with them. I had it on my mini map but couldn't see it in front of me, or through the gun sight. I was in a heavy amongst the rocks/hills on the left side of the map. Distance isn't enough to be a render issue. 

When it was destroyed, the wreck appeared. This was 2-3 days ago. Never happened before. Never happened since. 

At that rate of occurrence, I can live with it and no, I don't have replays.

Oh, and to those that know me (and those that don't), no alcohol was abused during this incident.



If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #11 Posted 05 May 2019 - 06:49 PM

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The computer doesn't always get it right, there's a lot going on in real time

 

I've had games where I seem to be invisible and games where I have to do a short suicide run to get a sniper spotted



Homer_J #12 Posted 05 May 2019 - 06:51 PM

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View PostBlubba, on 05 May 2019 - 06:28 PM, said:

I played a game on El Halluf. Two heavys on my team had a tank in sight and firing on it. I was with them. I had it on my mini map but couldn't see it in front of me, or through the gun sight. I was in a heavy amongst the rocks/hills on the left side of the map. Distance isn't enough to be a render issue. 

When it was destroyed, the wreck appeared. This was 2-3 days ago. Never happened before. Never happened since. 

At that rate of occurrence, I can live with it and no, I don't have replays.

 

 

There was one a while back where someone posted the replay on El Halluf, it turned out the enemy was behind a rock which wasn't rendered due to his graphics settings.

 

There have also been rare cases of invisible tank bugs, possibly due to server issues or lag.  But very very rare and without a replay I would not jump to that conclusion.



Blubba #13 Posted 05 May 2019 - 07:26 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 05 May 2019 - 05:51 PM, said:

 

There was one a while back where someone posted the replay on El Halluf, it turned out the enemy was behind a rock which wasn't rendered due to his graphics settings.

 

There have also been rare cases of invisible tank bugs, possibly due to server issues or lag.  But very very rare and without a replay I would not jump to that conclusion.

 

Well I don't know because my graphics settings are pretty high. Still, I just put it down to one of those things.

If it happens again, I'll switch replays on but until then, I'll keep calm and carry on and I appreciate the response.

Have a medal :medal: on me!



7thSyndicate #14 Posted 05 May 2019 - 07:32 PM

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first you have to learn spotting and camo mechanics

PattonLeather #15 Posted 06 May 2019 - 08:52 PM

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Just now I had a Sand River game and this is what happened:

1. A Progetto65 was in my sights standing still a few hundred meters (guess) away. 

2. Zeroed in and fired but I missed. Don't know how that was even possible but lets just call it luck of the roll

3. As soon as I fired he disappeared.

4. I assumed he instantaneously vanished or moved at the speed of sound behind a dune.

5. However just after he disappeared I got hit by him three consecutive times without seeing him. No trees, no bushes, no houses just sand. 

 

Sorry but there is no way this was a function of an untrained crew or no line of sight. He was in the open on sand.

 

I am going to try to login in the future on a PC so I can replay these instances. But for now it just seems like a whole lot of BS.



Dorander #16 Posted 06 May 2019 - 10:01 PM

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View PostPattonLeather, on 06 May 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

Just now I had a Sand River game and this is what happened:

1. A Progetto65 was in my sights standing still a few hundred meters (guess) away. 

2. Zeroed in and fired but I missed. Don't know how that was even possible but lets just call it luck of the roll

3. As soon as I fired he disappeared.

4. I assumed he instantaneously vanished or moved at the speed of sound behind a dune.

5. However just after he disappeared I got hit by him three consecutive times without seeing him. No trees, no bushes, no houses just sand. 

 

Sorry but there is no way this was a function of an untrained crew or no line of sight. He was in the open on sand.

 

I am going to try to login in the future on a PC so I can replay these instances. But for now it just seems like a whole lot of BS.

 

Why would he have magically moved behind a dune? He probably just got unspotted. This sounds like a situation where the Progetto fired and got spotted by someone because his camo value dropped because of firing his gun, you fired while he was still spotted without being able to spot him yourself, the spot duration ran out so he vanished, and when he fired again he was out of your effective spot range. Mechanics can explain this situation just fine, but yes please provide the replays or we're all just guessing.

Homer_J #17 Posted 06 May 2019 - 10:05 PM

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View PostPattonLeather, on 06 May 2019 - 08:52 PM, said:

Just now I had a Sand River game and this is what happened:

1. A Progetto65 was in my sights standing still a few hundred meters (guess) away. 

2. Zeroed in and fired but I missed. Don't know how that was even possible but lets just call it luck of the roll

3. As soon as I fired he disappeared.

4. I assumed he instantaneously vanished or moved at the speed of sound behind a dune.

5. However just after he disappeared I got hit by him three consecutive times without seeing him. No trees, no bushes, no houses just sand. 

 

That's almost identical to the tale the Lowe driver in my first image told.

 

He had a replay, which was most helpful since it turned out the enemy tank was actually a few metres beyond his maximum view range and behind a tree.

 

So yes, get those replays otherwise we are going to assume user error.



Toni112007 #18 Posted 07 May 2019 - 06:27 AM

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View PostPattonLeather, on 05 May 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

Been playing my Centurion 7/1 for a while a noticed something lately that truly annoys me. I have a 3 skill crew with the captain having 6th sense and all having BIA. IN almost every game lately I am getting nailed by tanks I simply cannot see. I can understand not seeing a STRV from a distance but I am talking getting hit twice in the last game I played by a Skopr G (truly crap cammo, I have one and know) and an Emil both from less than 100 meters and still can't see them. It is getting almost worthless to continue playing since every time I shoot even from behind a bush I get spotted instantly.

 

Either your view range is potato and his camo is godly so you aren't able to spot him or he double bushes (or until its no longer transparent) so you can't spot him at all until 50 meters away from him and he gets proxied. If you are a decent TD player, you will spot the enemy and won't shoot until your bush isn't transparent any more so you can't get spotted back.

05:30 Added after 2 minutes

View PostPattonLeather, on 06 May 2019 - 08:52 PM, said:

Just now I had a Sand River game and this is what happened:

1. A Progetto65 was in my sights standing still a few hundred meters (guess) away. 

2. Zeroed in and fired but I missed. Don't know how that was even possible but lets just call it luck of the roll

3. As soon as I fired he disappeared.

4. I assumed he instantaneously vanished or moved at the speed of sound behind a dune.

5. However just after he disappeared I got hit by him three consecutive times without seeing him. No trees, no bushes, no houses just sand. 

 

Sorry but there is no way this was a function of an untrained crew or no line of sight. He was in the open on sand.

 

I am going to try to login in the future on a PC so I can replay these instances. But for now it just seems like a whole lot of BS.

 

Seems like your view range is so bad.

Edited by Toni112007, 07 May 2019 - 06:28 AM.


Cobra6 #19 Posted 07 May 2019 - 08:58 AM

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View PostEtre_, on 05 May 2019 - 04:29 PM, said:

They are backing off to 15 m from the bush (until is no longer transparent). You can't spot them then. 

You don't do that. You die. 

 

That unfortunately doesn't work for all bushes anymore since some bushes still lose all their Camo when you fire through them even from distances greater than 15m.

 

Cobra 6



seXikanac #20 Posted 07 May 2019 - 10:18 AM

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View PostEtre_, on 05 May 2019 - 05:29 PM, said:

They are backing off to 15 m from the bush (until is no longer transparent). You can't spot them then. 

You don't do that. You die. 

 

That doesn't work with Skorping G and its gun that have the insane boom  and pings across half of the map




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