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Obj.430U USSR OP Nerfe MT

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Poll: Russian OP MED tanks. (111 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Is Russian medium tank OBJ.430U too OP?

  1. Yes, it is OP. (63 votes [56.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.76%

  2. No, not at all. (33 votes [29.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.73%

  3. I think Russian medium tanks overall are OP. (15 votes [13.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.51%

Should OBJ.430U be nerfed?

  1. Yes, it HAS to nerfed! (71 votes [63.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 63.96%

  2. No, it is fine. (30 votes [27.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.03%

  3. No, because it is fun to stand agains't heavy tanks with it. (10 votes [9.01%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.01%

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Room418 #1 Posted 06 May 2019 - 02:46 PM

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We play this game a lot. Despite of WG have lost nearly half of their players, when they started to offer OP steel wall tanks and also gave basicly prem ammunition for everyone "for free", we still play this game pretty a lot. So...there is a lot diffirent type of tanks. There is some Light tanks with spotting and running their [edited]off from beeing shot by others, there is heavy tanks, who bravely push lanes and crushing enemy front lines, there is TDs, who like to camp, support and sometimes can handle a pretty good ammount of shots, than there is artys ( so called...clickers ). Basicly, yeah, their clock is ticking and their fingers are clicking. And there is....medium tanks.

 

Each nation has their own medium tanks with its own unique playing style and so on. They are small, they are big, slow or fast e.t.c. But than...there is one special OP AF RUSSIAN medium tank - OBJ.430U. That tank has armor of heavy tank, mobility and dpm of med tank. That tank is fckng small and literly a fast driving heavy tank. Its turret is unpenitratble with prem ammunition. It is hardly to pen its hull, cause it is small and when that hull is beeing danced off, kind hard to aim at its weak spots, a lot of T10 HTs are thiner than this tank and...just...that tank has to nerfed or removed from the game and put Obj.430 back as T10 med tank. That tank had a good DPM ( highest in its T10 med class ), but also its armor wasnt sooo....harsh. 



VonniVidiVici #2 Posted 06 May 2019 - 03:35 PM

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Regarding the first question in the poll... Is there a "right" amount of OP as opposed to "too OP"?

Japualtah #3 Posted 06 May 2019 - 04:02 PM

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I'm grinding the 430 at the moment, so you can expect the U to get nerfed approximately a week after I finish the grind.

VonniVidiVici #4 Posted 06 May 2019 - 04:09 PM

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View PostJapualtah, on 06 May 2019 - 04:02 PM, said:

I'm grinding the 430 at the moment, so you can expect the U to get nerfed approximately a week after I finish the grind.

 

Don't grind too fast then; I'm on the 430 myself.

Cobra6 #5 Posted 06 May 2019 - 04:20 PM

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In WoT there are generally 3 balancing factors to a vehicle:

Armour - Gun - Mobility

 

A properly balanced vehicle generally has 2 out of these 3 factors.

For instance:

Heavy armour with a nice gun, but bad mobility.

Fast paper medium with a good gun but no armour.

 

An underpowered tank has only 1 of these three factors, for instance the TVP VTU, it only has a good gun but no mobility or armour so its underpowered.

 

An overpowered vehicle has all 3 of these factors like the OBJ430U.

 

I'm saying generally in all of this as a vehicle can have a bit of all 3 and be belanced and there are other balancing factors like camouflage and view range at play.

But *GENERALLY* you can't have all 3 on a vehicle and expect it to be balanced, it just doesn't happen.

 

Now, seeing as this is a game aimed at the Russian market of course the balancing nerfs to the Obj430U are cancelled, was totally to be expected.

 

Cobra 6



Saif #6 Posted 06 May 2019 - 08:09 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 06 May 2019 - 03:20 PM, said:

In WoT there are generally 3 balancing factors to a vehicle:

Armour - Gun - Mobility

 

A properly balanced vehicle generally has 2 out of these 3 factors.

For instance:

Heavy armour with a nice gun, but bad mobility.

Fast paper medium with a good gun but no armour.

 

An underpowered tank has only 1 of these three factors, for instance the TVP VTU, it only has a good gun but no mobility or armour so its underpowered.

 

An overpowered vehicle has all 3 of these factors like the OBJ430U.

 

I'm saying generally in all of this as a vehicle can have a bit of all 3 and be belanced and there are other balancing factors like camouflage and view range at play.

But *GENERALLY* you can't have all 3 on a vehicle and expect it to be balanced, it just doesn't happen.

 

Now, seeing as this is a game aimed at the Russian market of course the balancing nerfs to the Obj430U are cancelled, was totally to be expected.

 

Cobra 6

 

agree, it funny because WG now this but is scared off russian community, but what they dont see how bad the 121 is...

Edited by Saif, 06 May 2019 - 08:49 PM.


SnowRelic #7 Posted 06 May 2019 - 10:28 PM

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I voted "no, it's fine" simply because of the phrasing of the last answer in the second question. That left me wondering if we were dealing with a biased heavy aficionado. Given that, let's be really contrarian despite being in favor of nerfing the tank. I don't think it needs a huge nerf. I'm not for drastic and dramatic changes anyway. Fine-tune the game bit-by-bit. Or you end up having shenanigans like with the FV-4005. From too bad to too good and back to too bad again. It's nonsense. 

 

First off, when it comes to the game in general there are two complaints I have heard more than often enough. One is "needing to fire gold premium special ammo" and the other is "my armour does not work!" Those things are two sides of the same coin. Either a shell defeats the armour or the armour defeats the shell. Quite a few heavy tankers prefer to have both the shell and the armour. And while I prefer light, mobile tanks I do think armour really should have its place in the game. It should work. It's not called panzer for nothing.

 

Second, I dislike the M3 Lee syndrome. The insistence of having a free-for-all cupola on the turret. I don't want the game to be about sniping cupola's. In my opinion too much emphasis is placed on being able to always frontally penetrate the armour regardless of circumstances, while ignoring the fact that a lot of maps are funnels for frontal engagements instead of allowing for positional play and outflanking the enemy. Armour at the front could have 500mm of protection for all I care when I'm not shooting at it. And if it were to turn towards me, it should give free side-shots to my teammates.

 

Third, what I dislike about all sorts of "nerf this, nerf that"-rants is that if WG were to be intellectually challenged enough to listen to it all and obey, we would end up with a game where everything is mediocre and bland. Tier 10's especially, considering they're the "end goals", should be special. Ideally each and every tier 10 should entice players to take them out of the garage and on to the battlefield. Fun should be allowed. It's a game.

 

As far as I know (which I don't really because I never bothered to investigate) one of the 430 project's aims was to see if they could make a pocket heavy tank while keeping as much of the benefits of a medium. This means it encroaches on the territorium of the "heaviums", but a bit more to the medium side. So if I were to evaluate what I'd like to do to the 430U, I'd have to grab a little comparison on tanks.gg. Next to the 430U are the 121, Object 140, Object 907 and the WZ-111 5A and Object 277 and on virtual paper things don't look too bad. Although I'd love to make the 121 more desirable.

 

Gun performance on the 430U is on the lower end of the spectrum for DPM, penetration, dispersion and shell velocity. It has alpha. But come on, 440 damage at tier 10? I played most of my battles with a couple of tier 6 KV-1S's on each team with 390 alpha. I don't think 440 is that brutal or that impressive by comparison, given that tier 10's have way more hit points. Looking at those stats, I'd only think about giving the 121 the same aim-time as the 430U.

 

What I do find utterly ridiculous the ammo capacity on the 430U. It carries 50 rounds, same as the 140. But those bigger rounds should take up way more room. I would take the ammo capacity down to somewhere in around the middle thirties.

 

When it comes to mobility, none of those tanks are bad, but the 430U finds itself on the lower end again, but still better than the heaviums. The way it should be. I would probably swap the terrain resistances between the 121 and 430U.

 

In the armour department the 430U does excel. I do wonder how the 430U and 907 compare, both seem to have good armour. The 907 relies more on curves and angles, while the 430U has raw thickness. Except for the 105mm hull lower plate. Angle included its effective thickness becomes ~174mm. That's not challenging even to the majority of tier 8 tanks.

 

The armour of the 430U does have a feature typical of a great many Soviet tanks, including the infamous IS-3, is the 30mm of spaced armour on the sides. People should have a look at the 3D model on tanks.gg. Or the IS-3's. Basically the same. Let me describe it. The side-armour behind the tracks is thick and flat, but it's the part just above the tracks that's insane. That part has a reversed slope to it and it's covered by that 30mm of spaced armour. The spaced armour also extends to the sides of the front and the rear of the tank and causes quite a few of shell absorptions. I have my doubts about the, ahem, "historical accuracy" of the thickness of the side armour. I think it should be reduced on most, if not all, Soviet tanks. I'd still rather fight a 430U with a tier 8 than an IS-3 with a tier 6.

 

Finally, both the 907 and 430U have 2000hp, while the 140 and the 121 have 1900 and 1950. I don't think I would have given any Russian medium 2Khp. I would give a trickle of health to the 121, since it isn't a Rusky armour damage sponge and the whole world likes to farm damage.

 

All-in-all, I think the small corridor maps overemphasize certain aspects of tanks (frontal armour and close-range brawling) and I think it would be actually be bad for the game to overreact on that. I would much rather see WG put an effort into opening up the maps, and also putting at least 100m extra on each side (while not increasing the distances between the spawn points), so mobile tanks have some room to maneuver.



If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #8 Posted 07 May 2019 - 03:01 AM

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What happens when tier 9 and 10 is 50% 430Us and 50% sooperconkerers?

 

Sit there and spam each other until the bullets run out and declare a draw


Edited by If_I_Die_You_Die_Too, 07 May 2019 - 03:03 AM.


Hedgehog1963 #9 Posted 07 May 2019 - 04:24 AM

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View PostRoom418, on 06 May 2019 - 01:46 PM, said:

We play this game a lot. Despite of WG have lost nearly half of their players, when they started to offer OP steel wall tanks and also gave basicly prem ammunition for everyone "for free", we still play this game pretty a lot. So...there is a lot diffirent type of tanks. There is some Light tanks with spotting and running their [edited]off from beeing shot by others, there is heavy tanks, who bravely push lanes and crushing enemy front lines, there is TDs, who like to camp, support and sometimes can handle a pretty good ammount of shots, than there is artys ( so called...clickers ). Basicly, yeah, their clock is ticking and their fingers are clicking. And there is....medium tanks.

 

Each nation has their own medium tanks with its own unique playing style and so on. They are small, they are big, slow or fast e.t.c. But than...there is one special OP AF RUSSIAN medium tank - OBJ.430U. That tank has armor of heavy tank, mobility and dpm of med tank. That tank is fckng small and literly a fast driving heavy tank. Its turret is unpenitratble with prem ammunition. It is hardly to pen its hull, cause it is small and when that hull is beeing danced off, kind hard to aim at its weak spots, a lot of T10 HTs are thiner than this tank and...just...that tank has to nerfed or removed from the game and put Obj.430 back as T10 med tank. That tank had a good DPM ( highest in its T10 med class ), but also its armor wasnt sooo....harsh. 

 

Ok, so if it's OP why don't you have one?

MulkQvist_Fi #10 Posted 07 May 2019 - 06:23 AM

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I think it's good as it is. Ordinary players have now access to something reminding 907 or t95 chieftain.

Personally I don't fancy it too much atm even have it.



Room418 #11 Posted 07 May 2019 - 04:12 PM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 07 May 2019 - 04:24 AM, said:

 

Ok, so if it's OP why don't you have one?

 

Cause I dont like it. I have fought against it pretty decent ammount of times and it is kind hard to pen such tank with HTs. I had Obj.430 ( when it was T10 MT ) and liked it more, because of good looking and good DPM ( Highest in its T10 MT class )

Hedgehog1963 #12 Posted 07 May 2019 - 10:14 PM

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View PostRoom418, on 07 May 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:

 

Cause I dont like it. I have fought against it pretty decent ammount of times and it is kind hard to pen such tank with HTs. I had Obj.430 ( when it was T10 MT ) and liked it more, because of good looking and good DPM ( Highest in its T10 MT class )

 

So you started a thread claiming a tank is OP but you don't have it because you don't like it...

kaneloon #13 Posted 07 May 2019 - 10:45 PM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 07 May 2019 - 09:14 PM, said:

 

So you started a thread claiming a tank is OP but you don't have it because you don't like it...

 

He is salty because he chose the K-91 line ...

 

Anyway I find it ok to have a tank you can grind that can somehow compete with the 907 in CW.

If not, it would be very hard to fight the older clans.

21:46 Added after 1 minute
If they nerf the 430U they should nerf the 907 too.

Room418 #14 Posted 08 May 2019 - 03:34 PM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 07 May 2019 - 10:14 PM, said:

 

So you started a thread claiming a tank is OP but you don't have it because you don't like it...

 

*edited* I will remind you again - It is hard to play against that tank with heavys. How many times I have to repeat that? 

Edited by Daxeno, 08 May 2019 - 04:23 PM.
Inappropriate remarks.


vasilinhorulezz #15 Posted 08 May 2019 - 09:18 PM

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It is strong, and it should have been nerfed, the point is those proposed nerfs were useless either way. The tank needs armor nerfs, starting with the cupolas, 300mm up to 330mm effective armor on a medium, really? Lower the cupolas on the T-62's level, with the left one at around 250mm and 220mm for the other (effective armor). Tone down the upper hull armor, although I could live only with the cupola nerf, and nerf the dispersion values, or buff the 121's aim time and dispersion.

DeadLecter #16 Posted 08 May 2019 - 09:41 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 06 May 2019 - 06:50 PM, said:

In WoT there are generally 3 balancing factors to a vehicle:

Armour - Gun - Mobility

 

A properly balanced vehicle generally has 2 out of these 3 factors.

For instance:

Heavy armour with a nice gun, but bad mobility.

Fast paper medium with a good gun but no armour.

 

An underpowered tank has only 1 of these three factors, for instance the TVP VTU, it only has a good gun but no mobility or armour so its underpowered.

 

An overpowered vehicle has all 3 of these factors like the OBJ430U.

 

I'm saying generally in all of this as a vehicle can have a bit of all 3 and be belanced and there are other balancing factors like camouflage and view range at play.

But *GENERALLY* you can't have all 3 on a vehicle and expect it to be balanced, it just doesn't happen.

 

Now, seeing as this is a game aimed at the Russian market of course the balancing nerfs to the Obj430U are cancelled, was totally to be expected.

 

Cobra 6

 

And the best part is the camo and VR of 430U. Has both as well. And as if that wasn't enough, the Tier IX Object 430 has no grind at all. While in other T IX meds you have to spend half of your battles being inferior.

Cobra6 #17 Posted 09 May 2019 - 07:34 AM

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View PostDeadLecter, on 08 May 2019 - 08:41 PM, said:

 

And the best part is the camo and VR of 430U. Has both as well. And as if that wasn't enough, the Tier IX Object 430 has no grind at all. While in other T IX meds you have to spend half of your battles being inferior.

 

Well it was always the case that RU meds were easier, I mean the fact you can mount everything on the stock T-54 suspension while on the E-50 you had to research the tracks first before you could mount anything have been a meme since T9 meds were introduced.

 

Cobra 6



Thejagdpanther #18 Posted 09 May 2019 - 09:15 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 06 May 2019 - 04:20 PM, said:

In WoT there are generally 3 balancing factors to a vehicle:

Armour - Gun - Mobility

 

i always thinked that was four


Armour - Gun - Mobility - Stalin



DeadLecter #19 Posted 09 May 2019 - 12:45 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 09 May 2019 - 10:04 AM, said:

 

Well it was always the case that RU meds were easier, I mean the fact you can mount everything on the stock T-54 suspension while on the E-50 you had to research the tracks first before you could mount anything have been a meme since T9 meds were introduced.

 

Cobra 6

I'm still grinding towards T54 and E50. Currently on Panther II and T44 so I didn't know this. 

But I'm not complaining about 430 having an easier grind, in fact all other tanks should have similar grind, it is not fun to spend half of your battles being inferior. Btw thanks for the info.



Rati_Festa #20 Posted 09 May 2019 - 12:57 PM

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View PostIf_I_Die_You_Die_Too, on 07 May 2019 - 03:01 AM, said:

What happens when tier 9 and 10 is 50% 430Us and 50% sooperconkerers?

 

Sit there and spam each other until the bullets run out and declare a draw

 

Its a game mode called Ranked Battles





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