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Transition From Launcher to Wargaming.net Game Center


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eekeeboo #81 Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:41 PM

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View Postperegrine, on 15 May 2019 - 10:33 AM, said:

Do you even read the actual question that was asked? Again there is no reason for "troubleshooting or support assistance for technical problems" unless i want that.

 

If you consider who and what I replied to, it wasn't a question but a demand and a goodbye, but it's still important to clarify the point. Why it is important to have that information and what it's used for, like you would have such information sent if you wanted an anti-cheat system in a game. 
11:47 Added after 5 minutes

View PostCobra6, on 15 May 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

 

But can you disable it or not? The old launcher didn't need to send information and we didn't miss it.

 

Pretty much any application asks you in advance if you want to send troubleshooter information or not with a report and you can choose not to. Why do you assume that people automatically want to send information.

It's their information, not yours so make it optional.

 

Cobra 6

 

The old launcher did have such systems but you would need to run a WG check. Like with any application it doesn't state it sends it all the time throughout every day, unless there's an active monitoring situation for things that require account and client monitoring. 

 

So whereby you have "their information" this is true, but like any game with any monitoring systems for cheats etc you agree to share and send this information not only for the anti-cheat but also for support, troubleshooting and account verifications tools to ensure the same person is using the account and it hasn't been hacked etc. 

11:50 Added after 8 minutes

View Post1ncompetenc3, on 15 May 2019 - 11:39 AM, said:

 

I expect WG to gather absolutely anything and everything they can whether it breaches privacy laws or not. As for why I don't think the dedicated launchers do the exact same thing: they use fewer system resources, don't start up when you boot into windows by default, and WG isn't trying to push people into using them.

 

You can expect this or you can listen to facts that the rules and guidelines are in place and that laws are strictly adhered to across the board. It's within WG's own and best interest to follow these rules and laws. 

 

Any system can gather information with the smallest amount of resources, the amount of system resources will not change what is and isn't gathered. WGC has very different tools in it over more game titles than an individual launcher. 

 

Any company with their own launcher will eventually update a launcher and "push" people to use the updated one so you're not spending resources supporting 2 resources at once when 1 tool will do the job. 



Geno1isme #82 Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:50 PM

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View Post1ncompetenc3, on 15 May 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

As for why I don't think the dedicated launchers do the exact same thing: they use fewer system resources, don't start up when you boot into windows by default, and WG isn't trying to push people into using them.

 

Ok, so just the usual tinfoil hat arguments.

 

@eek: Pretty sure you could have avoided most of the complaints by simple means like

- calling it "WG Launcher" instead of "WG Game Center" (it seems that name alone triggers quite a few people)

- add an option to close-after-launch

- use less aggressive default settings regarding seeding and autostart (this applies to the classic Launcher as well though)

- use a more conservative UI design (same for the in-game UI redesigns, most people I know just hate the tile-design)

- inform people that using either Launcher and Game Center are only required for updating the game, while people can still run the game client directly (I know, likely too complex for most people)


Edited by Geno1isme, 15 May 2019 - 01:00 PM.


Trostani #83 Posted 15 May 2019 - 01:58 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 15 May 2019 - 11:41 AM, said:

 

If you consider who and what I replied to, it wasn't a question but a demand and a goodbye, but it's still important to clarify the point. Why it is important to have that information and what it's used for, like you would have such information sent if you wanted an anti-cheat system in a game. 
11:47 Added after 5 minutes

 

The old launcher did have such systems but you would need to run a WG check. Like with any application it doesn't state it sends it all the time throughout every day, unless there's an active monitoring situation for things that require account and client monitoring. 

 

So whereby you have "their information" this is true, but like any game with any monitoring systems for cheats etc you agree to share and send this information not only for the anti-cheat but also for support, troubleshooting and account verifications tools to ensure the same person is using the account and it hasn't been hacked etc. 

11:50 Added after 8 minutes

 

You can expect this or you can listen to facts that the rules and guidelines are in place and that laws are strictly adhered to across the board. It's within WG's own and best interest to follow these rules and laws. 

 

Any system can gather information with the smallest amount of resources, the amount of system resources will not change what is and isn't gathered. WGC has very different tools in it over more game titles than an individual launcher. 

 

Any company with their own launcher will eventually update a launcher and "push" people to use the updated one so you're not spending resources supporting 2 resources at once when 1 tool will do the job. 

 

If you want you could build in such tools into game client itself. I will not install WGC because:

- for me it's typical malware

- I don't want to be spammed with unwanted commercial.

For same reasons I'm using GOG instead of steam for digital games.

If you will force WGC to all users I will just quit and I won't be alone in such decision. Good that I have last 3 months of premium account.

And at the very end - good luck with more 'happy players'. 



BravelyRanAway #84 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:05 PM

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View Posteddie73, on 15 May 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

 

Kind of Epic Store 2

 

 

Can you find a smaller picture?

peregrine #85 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:06 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 15 May 2019 - 12:41 PM, said:

The old launcher did have such systems but you would need to run a WG check. Like with any application it doesn't state it sends it all the time throughout every day, unless there's an active monitoring situation for things that require account and client monitoring. 

 

So whereby you have "their information" this is true, but like any game with any monitoring systems for cheats etc you agree to share and send this information not only for the anti-cheat but also for support, troubleshooting and account verifications tools to ensure the same person is using the account and it hasn't been hacked etc. 

 

*Edit


Edited by xP4_warrior, 15 May 2019 - 03:37 PM.
*This post has been edited by the moderation team due to insults against Staff.


HerrWizo #86 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:06 PM

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Please, don't. At least don't force this on people. Personally, I'm already getting tired of all those game centers / portals / stores which are basically nothing but unnecessary bloatware and adware and developers keep forcing them on people. We already have a huge amount of ingame ads (via "intelligence center", which can at least be disabled by mods, luckily) and this is really not required.

 

Allow all players to have a choice of using it or not. That would be fair. Forcing woudn't. Without such choice, this will be the last straw for me.

 

Sad to say, but all this is a good indication of where this game is heading - to more advertisements, more promotions, more bloatware. I wouldn't be surprised if you developed your own OS within a few years, full of advertisements for premium tanks, of course.

 



Homer_J #87 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:13 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 15 May 2019 - 10:10 AM, said:

 

 

A simple launcher for a bunch of games has no business being 300MB.

 

I just checked and it isn't.

 

Biggest part of it is the CEF web browser which I believe the game uses anyway.

 

Can you check what you have in C:\ProgramData\Wargaming.net\ without WGC installed?



GolKosh #88 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:17 PM

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Enough said about the game center. We just wait for someone that writes another mod, disabling this game center. I don't need another program to run. All I play is WOT, uninstalled WoWp and WoWs a few years ago because of this game center...

 

I love the launcher as it is, all the news on the front page, click PLAY and done. Now I have to disable downloads while playing and other settings. So I just wait for a modder to write a mod for this... or I make a worldoftanks.exe shortcut and ALL the news I never see again!



KanonenVogel19 #89 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:17 PM

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View PostBSHDBCG, on 15 May 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

Well unlike Steam or other clients, then WG client doesn't offer a selection of games where it actually makes sense to have it.

 

WGC does offer a selection of games: World of Tanks, World of Tanks Public Test, World of Warplanes and World of Warships. The issue here might be that you're not interested in the other games, and while that's a pity, other players are interested in them, and thus having one launcher instead of multiple ones are preferable. Also, having all these games update automatically during the night is very welcome, and being logged in automatically is also very welcome.

 

View PostCobra6, on 15 May 2019 - 10:10 AM, said:

this is a launcher for a game and it therefore should not take up more space than actual games like Papers

 

I think you underestimate the amount of code that goes into making a fully working game launcher. For you, it's just about "launching a game". In reality, it's much more than that. You need code to render the actual window with its customized look, you need code to be able to download and install games and update them, you need code to be able to update the launcher itself with images and data, you need code to be able to store user settings and data. Considering that a simple integer already occupies 4 bytes and a simple pointer occupies 8 bytes, it grows quite quickly.

 

View PostCobra6, on 15 May 2019 - 10:10 AM, said:

Properly optimize your shizz or stop forcing it onto players until you do.

 

Looking at my computer right now, WGC is only taking up 209 MB, not 300 MB. The biggest folder is the "dlls" folder taking up 174 MB, and in that folder, the biggest files are "libcef.dll" (Chromium Embedded Framework) at 46.7 MB and "icudt57.dll" (ICU Data DLL) at 24.4 MB. Point is, these are not DLLs that WG have written themselves, so it's difficult for them to optimize it. Meanwhile, if you have WoT installed, that one takes up about 43.7 GB. If you also want the public test server, then that's another 41.0 GB. Seriusly, this is like having 2 elephants in your room and 1 ant, and complain that the ant is taking too much space.

 

View PostCobra6, on 15 May 2019 - 10:10 AM, said:

A simple launcher for a bunch of games has no business being 300MB.

 

300 MB 209 MB is not that much to be honest. To put it into perspective, a regular 500x500 32-bit image is 1 MB already. And that's just a single image. For any useful application you also need code, text, cache etc.

 

Besides, I'm still wondering, what's actually the issue here? Are you stuck on your last 100 MB on your drive or what?

 

View Postperegrine, on 15 May 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

Again there is no reason for "troubleshooting or support assistance for technical problems" unless i want that.

 

You might not want it, other players do. So now WG should develop separate launchers for each and everyone of us? 



Steiner011 #90 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:47 PM

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View PostGolKosh, on 15 May 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

 So I just wait for a modder to write a mod for this... or I make a worldoftanks.exe shortcut and ALL the news I never see again!

 

This. Mod will do , unless WG deemes it as "inappropriate" , or even "malicious". THEN we will be sure that only malicious things were undertaken by WG to FORCE us to use it.

P.S. I will also join army of forum users who despise being spammed by news. World would not collapse if I dont see news of one of 150+ premium tanks ingame on " sale ".



1ncompetenc3 #91 Posted 15 May 2019 - 02:51 PM

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View Posteddie73, on 15 May 2019 - 02:21 PM, said:

 

Pretty small indeed,but you can find it here:

https://www.mygarage...megvo6brp21.png

 

Beautiful.

Don_71 #92 Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:01 PM

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View PostSmegger213, on 15 May 2019 - 04:01 AM, said:

I honestly don't know what people are moaning about.

I have used the game centre for years and never had a problem with it.

 

Get a grip people.

 

Will GC run any better for you by forcing others into it who actually do not want it?

No?

Get a grip yourself then...



KanonenVogel19 #93 Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:27 PM

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View PostDon_71, on 15 May 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

Will GC run any better for you by forcing others into it who actually do not want it?

 

Actually, yes. Because the resources that WG is currently putting into keeping the old launcher still running, could be rather used to make the new launcher even better, which would benefit everyone using it.



Cobra6 #94 Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:54 PM

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View Posteekeeboo, on 15 May 2019 - 11:41 AM, said:

 

The old launcher did have such systems but you would need to run a WG check. Like with any application it doesn't state it sends it all the time throughout every day, unless there's an active monitoring situation for things that require account and client monitoring. 

 

So whereby you have "their information" this is true, but like any game with any monitoring systems for cheats etc you agree to share and send this information not only for the anti-cheat but also for support, troubleshooting and account verifications tools to ensure the same person is using the account and it hasn't been hacked etc. 

11:50 Added after 8 minutes

 

Indeed but it was up to you, the player, to run the WG check or not. It wasn't just on by default.

 

Whenever any of my applications crash I get the option to send a report (if I want to) and also if I want to include system information or not.

 

It's an option and the choice always lies with me, the user. Not whether or not the application maker just wants the data or not.

 

View PostKanonenVogel19, on 15 May 2019 - 01:17 PM, said:

 

Looking at my computer right now, WGC is only taking up 209 MB, not 300 MB. The biggest folder is the "dlls" folder taking up 174 MB, and in that folder, the biggest files are "libcef.dll" (Chromium Embedded Framework) at 46.7 MB and "icudt57.dll" (ICU Data DLL) at 24.4 MB. Point is, these are not DLLs that WG have written themselves, so it's difficult for them to optimize it. Meanwhile, if you have WoT installed, that one takes up about 43.7 GB. If you also want the public test server, then that's another 41.0 GB. Seriusly, this is like having 2 elephants in your room and 1 ant, and complain that the ant is taking too much space.

 

 

300 MB 209 MB is not that much to be honest. To put it into perspective, a regular 500x500 32-bit image is 1 MB already. And that's just a single image. For any useful application you also need code, text, cache etc.

 

Besides, I'm still wondering, what's actually the issue here? Are you stuck on your last 100 MB on your drive or what?

 

 

You might not want it, other players do. So now WG should develop separate launchers for each and everyone of us? 

 

43GB size, that 43GB is needed to run the actual game, it's content. The launcher is just a tool to launch a game or update it, nothing more, nothing less, so it should use as little HDD space as possible.

Again, a launcher (tool) using up more space then tons of games (content) is bad.

 

Images, we don't need tons of images in a launcher apart from the graphics for the buttons/frame and a header image.

 

We already *have* a fully working functioning launcher, we have had it for 9 years now and it's never had an issue, it's smaller, and there is no good reason to replace it for most players as they only play WoT.

 

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 15 May 2019 - 04:01 PM.


Don_71 #95 Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:58 PM

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View PostKanonenVogel19, on 15 May 2019 - 02:27 PM, said:

 

Actually, yes. Because the resources that WG is currently putting into keeping the old launcher still running, could be rather used to make the new launcher even better, which would benefit everyone using it.

 

:facepalm:

Just check out your own comparison up there:

Keeping that old launcher functional compared to four entire games is not even "2 elephants vs. 1 ant" but rather "10 elephants vs. 1 bacteria" - so gimme a break please...



eekeeboo #96 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:10 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 15 May 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

 

Ok, so just the usual tinfoil hat arguments.

 

@eek: Pretty sure you could have avoided most of the complaints by simple means like

- calling it "WG Launcher" instead of "WG Game Center" (it seems that name alone triggers quite a few people)

- add an option to close-after-launch

- use less aggressive default settings regarding seeding and autostart (this applies to the classic Launcher as well though)

- use a more conservative UI design (same for the in-game UI redesigns, most people I know just hate the tile-design)

- inform people that using either Launcher and Game Center are only required for updating the game, while people can still run the game client directly (I know, likely too complex for most people)

 

Many of the problems you mention are problems because people don't like change and don't like to use different systems they're used to using. WGC has a great many quality of life improvements for some and not for others. The original client was very much a fit for purpose for the old game, we have many new things and a new tool will help bring things forward. 

 

View PostTrostani, on 15 May 2019 - 12:58 PM, said:

 

If you want you could build in such tools into game client itself. I will not install WGC because:

- for me it's typical malware

- I don't want to be spammed with unwanted commercial.

For same reasons I'm using GOG instead of steam for digital games.

If you will force WGC to all users I will just quit and I won't be alone in such decision. Good that I have last 3 months of premium account.

And at the very end - good luck with more 'happy players'. 

 

The game client does not work the same way that WGC is intended to be used. 

If that is how you feel about this, then no matter the amount of discussion and highlighting the areas that are inaccurate are unhelpful. This is the tool to use moving forward and this is the tool you will need to use. 

 

View PostHerrWizo, on 15 May 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Please, don't. At least don't force this on people. Personally, I'm already getting tired of all those game centers / portals / stores which are basically nothing but unnecessary bloatware and adware and developers keep forcing them on people. We already have a huge amount of ingame ads (via "intelligence center", which can at least be disabled by mods, luckily) and this is really not required.

 

Allow all players to have a choice of using it or not. That would be fair. Forcing woudn't. Without such choice, this will be the last straw for me.

 

Sad to say, but all this is a good indication of where this game is heading - to more advertisements, more promotions, more bloatware. I wouldn't be surprised if you developed your own OS within a few years, full of advertisements for premium tanks, of course.

 

 

You should also consider a free to play game works through advertisement and the more systems a person can use as a mod to disable ads then the more a company has to find ways of then advertising to potential customers. 

 

View PostCobra6, on 15 May 2019 - 02:54 PM, said:

 

Indeed but it was up to you, the player, to run the WG check or not. It wasn't just on by default.

 

Whenever any of my applications crash I get the option to send a report (if I want to) and also if I want to include system information or not.

 

It's an option and the choice always lies with me, the user. Not whether or not the application maker just wants the data or not.

 

 

43GB size, that 43GB is needed to run the actual game, it's content. The launcher is just a tool to launch a game or update it, nothing more, nothing less, so it should use as little HDD space as possible.

Again, a launcher (tool) using up more space then tons of games (content) is bad.

 

Images, we don't need tons of images in a launcher apart from the graphics for the buttons/frame and a header image.

 

We already *have* a fully working functioning launcher, we have had it for 9 years now and it's never had an issue, it's smaller, and there is no good reason to replace it for most players as they only play WoT.

 

 

Cobra 6

 

At the same time, anti-cheats should not be at the discretion of the player when they're running and working for instance. Or monitoring the hardware is suitable for the game for things like settings or how it's not a random PC from a random location using your account through nefarious means. There are a great many things WGC does that the old launcher does not to, intended for purposes that were suitable at the time but as it is now with WG and the universe it is no longer able to do what it needs to do and what WG needs it to do. 

 



BravelyRanAway #97 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:13 PM

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View Post1ncompetenc3, on 15 May 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

 

Beautiful.

 

Nice he gave us a bigger picture....but there's no indication in it that it has anything to do with WG.

parim1331 #98 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:23 PM

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View PostDIREWOLF75, on 14 May 2019 - 05:12 PM, said:

 

Don't force this on people, seriously.   I tried the GC last year and it caused several issues, most notably being that it made the game stutter.

Less obviously, it also somehow clashed with some other software(i no longer recall which ones, sorry).

No, really do NOT want when current model works ok.   Let the people who wants to switch to do so, but don't force everyone to do it.

 

Edit:   And no, it is most definitely NOT a matter of computer performance.   My setup runs a 4790K with 32GB DDR3 RAM at 2400Mhz, a 7870 gfx card over a 100/10 fiberoptic internet connection.

With the game as it is, i can run uTorrent using most of that bandwidth at the same time as the game with ZERO stutter.   But the gamecenter, oh no, that somehow screws up the game.

 

WGC is constantly getting updated, the issues that you mention in your post might already be far back in the past.

 

View PostKoz23, on 14 May 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:

I really dislike game centers -_- . Call me oldschool, but I'd want to click on my darn game, if it needs updates, then update, if not just start the damn game without having to log into some center that keeps track of every other game that the company has...

 

I used to hate steam back when I had to have it installed to play Left4Dead.

Homer_J #99 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:25 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 15 May 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:

 

We already *have* a fully working functioning launcher, we have had it for 9 years now and it's never had an issue, it's smaller, and there is no good reason to replace it for most players as they only play WoT.

 

Can you tell me if you have a  C:\ProgramData\Wargaming.net\ without WGC installed and how much is in there?

 

I don;t have a system without WGC any more.



DIREWOLF75 #100 Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:29 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 15 May 2019 - 03:04 AM, said:

View PostKanonenVogel19, on 14 May 2019 - 11:48 PM, said:

 

I would like to ask you how much RAM you have in the computer that you're playing WoT on? :)

 

It's irrelevant because even if WoT takes all your memory (which it won't) then the OS will page the idle game centre to disk.

 

Really though people need to come out of 1982 computing mentality.  You don't need to load your mouse driver into UMB any more.  WGC isn't going to slow your system down or eat any of your babies.

 

Really?   Then please explain why it DID slow down my computer when i TESTED IT.   And found the experience so horrible that i scrambled in near panic to get rid of the *edit That experience including that it caused problems for other apps which it should have absolutely no reason for affecting at all.   And it did so even after it was closed and only the game was running.   As long as the game was started through the GC, it caused problems.

Reinstalled without the GC, problems gone, i could again have the game on in the background all day if i wanted without noticing any issues.


Edited by DarkAri, 15 May 2019 - 05:05 PM.
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