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Medium Tanks Rebalance - STB-1

1.5.1 Public Test

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vuque #1 Posted 15 May 2019 - 09:46 AM

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Hello Commanders, 

 

Please leave your feedback on STB-1 for Public Test 1.5.1, and remember to remain on-topic and constructive. 

 

Roll out!



LordSkyFury #2 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:39 AM

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Type 61 needs more ammo. Current ammo capacity is just terrible for it alpha damage. It has the worst damage potential among tier 9 medium tanks. Even some tier 9 mediums have better potential with stock gun and this include Type 61 where stock gun can do more damage than top gun.

 

In case of Kranvagn you increased alpha and ammo capacity, so I do not see why you forgot about STB-1 and Type 61 when you lower their damage per shot.



Other thing about Type 61 is that it cannot perform that well in close range. It has paper tall turret with huge copula. You should at lest give it some armor to turret and copula. This tank is really big and when you are not in hull down you will be destroyed pretty fast.
 

SlyMeerkat #3 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:58 AM

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On tier 4 of this line so got a fair while to go before i get this but no rush for it

tajj7 #4 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:04 AM

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STB-1 turret still seems pretty bad, on tanks.gg there is still a strop across the front that is like 150 effective and unless you are hull down you can hardly bounce anything. If its supposed to be a close to mid ridge brawler with all the other nerfs to it, then the turret needs to work, not be full of holes especially when it has a cupola. 

 

STA-2 changes seem almost pointless, that tank is still not very good, slightly boosting engine power and shell velocity is hardly a buff. 



Hezs #5 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:26 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 17 May 2019 - 09:04 AM, said:

STB-1 turret still seems pretty bad, on tanks.gg there is still a strop across the front that is like 150 effective and unless you are hull down you can hardly bounce anything. If its supposed to be a close to mid ridge brawler with all the other nerfs to it, then the turret needs to work, not be full of holes especially when it has a cupola. 

 

STA-2 changes seem almost pointless, that tank is still not very good, slightly boosting engine power and shell velocity is hardly a buff. 

 

Stb-1 turret armor is weird, strips of heavy and thin armor side by side. Make it more consistent that you would know where to shoot. No it is very trollish. 

 

Sta-2 received huge buffs to the mantlet armor, why wasn't these mentioned on the patch notes? 



_RNG #6 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:28 AM

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stb-1 stays a awful tank buff it more ! (More Alpha)

Edited by _RNG, 17 May 2019 - 11:28 AM.


Awesome_Face #7 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:40 AM

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I like the idea of giving the STB-1 the hydropneumatic suspension.

However, it is unfortunate that the STB-1 effektively looses 4° of gun depression to the sides due to the way it is implemented.

 

I just saw a user post a video on a certain blog about such a suspension in the Type 74.

The tank in the video can not only tilt to the front and back, but also to the sides.

Spoiler

Would really appreciate it if changes to the suspension mechanic were to be considered. :)


Edited by Awesome_Face, 17 May 2019 - 11:43 AM.


Spacecruiser_ #8 Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:43 PM

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Dear WG 
A quick reminder how the Hydropneumatic suspension works on STB.
This is how it works
unknown.png

This is how you implemented it on WoT: 
Screenshot_1124.png

For the "tl;dr" people 
In the current state, STB-1 has 10 degrees of gun depression all around the vehicle (except the -1 on the engine deck) 
With the introduction of Hydropneumatic. They increase the total gun depression on front to 12 instead of 10 degees. But they "lock" half of it on Hydronpneumatic mode only 
This means it ends up 6 + 6 "while hydro is acitve". The 12 degrees work only in front tho. In every other part it stays at 6 degrees.
So from 10 all round went to +2 degrees in front and -4 everywhere else 
Dear WG how the addition of this mechanic will benefit the vehicle? This is literally a nerf while this mechanic was supposed to enchance the depression even more. 
Either make it work all around the vehicle (like in real life) or don't add it at all. 
The sacrifice of 4 degrees for 2 in front is not worth and I am pretty sure the majority agrees with me. 
Here is a demo of Hydropneumatic suspension, please take notes how it is performed: 
https://youtu.be/iqT-3qrvTxU



LordSkyFury #9 Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:51 PM

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I would happily have all around -10° that only front -12°. It is really anoying to be frontally towards enemy to make gun depression work.

DaddysLittlePrincess #10 Posted 17 May 2019 - 05:04 PM

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Just as I suspected, the hydropneumatic suspension is more nerf than a buff to STB making it incredibly awkward and frustrating to use. You can't make quick peeks as the suspension turns off and when it's turn on again it takes too long to get the depression. Also, no depression on sides makes the tank a lot less flexible.

KanonenVogel19 #11 Posted 17 May 2019 - 05:10 PM

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It feels like these changes are unsufficient. Sure, you gave it some small buffs, but you also gave it a lot of compensational nerfs. All that combined, it might have slightly better numbers on paper, but in practice it doesn't feel more powerful at all.

 

- The accuracy nerf was not needed at all. Actually, it should get an accuracy buff. A dispersion of 0.37 on a medium tank gun doesn't belong at tier 10, it's too much RNG. I suggest that you buff the accuracy to 0.35.

 

- The view range nerf was not needed either. Sure, if you want to make a global view range rebalance, it's acceptable, but then do it on all tanks, not only this one. I suggest that you keep the view range as it was before, at 410 meters.

 

- The turret armor buff is very welcome, but I hope you realise that it's just an illusion. Sure, as long as people shoot standard ammunition, the turret armor is somewhat reliable. But we all know that's not the case, and as soon as players start to load their skill ammunition, the turret armor is not reliable at all. Will players use armor that they can't trust? Nope. So either buff the armor levels to atleast 330-350 mm, or bring us an ammunition rework without all those high-penetration premium rounds.

 

- The nerfed shell velocity was not needed either. It's completely fine if you want to give it AP rounds, but atleast give the AP shells the same velocity as the previous APCR shells had.

 

- The nerfed top speed was not needed either. Keep it as it was before, at 53 km/h.



unknow_sphinx #12 Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:29 PM

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how [edited]demented and useless are the developers at wg  ruin the stb-1 in that way, slower and worse gun handling how [edited]stupid can someone be, and to call that a buff just shows how retarded the money sucking white russians at wg is,  all the tank  needed was better gun handling, thats all the players wanted was better gun handling and maybe siege mode stuff since it was on that tank from start,  and wg call it a buff to make a tank worse, [edited]crapheads controling the game, and baning players for speaking their mind,  why do all that to a tank when they gonna make it so bad no one is going to play it anyways, use their [edited]money and make better maps instead and bring back good old maps   [edited]retarded wg, and  after this im prob gonna be baned but who the [edited]cares  plenty of other games to play

Warzey #13 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:53 PM

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View Postunknow_sphinx, on 17 May 2019 - 05:29 PM, said:

how [edited]demented and useless are the developers at wg  ruin the stb-1 in that way, slower and worse gun handling how [edited]stupid can someone be, and to call that a buff just shows how retarded the money sucking white russians at wg is,  all the tank  needed was better gun handling, thats all the players wanted was better gun handling and maybe siege mode stuff since it was on that tank from start,  and wg call it a buff to make a tank worse, [edited]crapheads controling the game, and baning players for speaking their mind,  why do all that to a tank when they gonna make it so bad no one is going to play it anyways, use their [edited]money and make better maps instead and bring back good old maps   [edited]retarded wg, and  after this im prob gonna be baned but who the [edited]cares  plenty of other games to play

 

You do deserve to get banned for providing "feedback" in such civilized manner. 

 

On topic:

 

I'm not really sure where you're going with these changes. If STB is meant to fight at medium to close range then these changes are questionable

  • hydropneumatic suspension feels unresponsive especially since armor on STB is not as good as the one on Udes so more movement is required. In current implementation suspension "works" below 10 km/h, it stays "active" but doesn't move until 20 something km/h and afterwards it turns off. I think it would be better to increase speed where suspension "works" which will make whole ridge line fighting much smoother. With the current hp/t STB quickly shoots over 10 km/h forward and reverse. 
  • turret feels like it's as strong as Pattons which means its effective until HEAT starts flying around and this poses a problem especially paired with my previous point. 
  • gun handling has improved but not really. Dispersion values for tank traverse and movement are better but dispersion for turret traverse (the most important one) stayed the same so overall gun handling doesn't feel that much better and that is quite weird for a tank that's supposed to fight at medium to close range.
  • with all changes combined STB is kind of in the same position as old Kranvagn. It's good at ridge line fighting but absolutely horrendous at everything else. Bad turret dispersion paired with low shell velocity and mediocre accuracy means STB is quite bad at sniping. Lower alpha, paper hull armor, lack of any ability to side scrape means that STB is in a disadvantage when trading.

 

Overally I'd say that STB-1 feels like a worse Udes at the moment


Edited by Warzey, 17 May 2019 - 09:41 PM.


bbmoose #14 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:08 PM

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What about AMX30B?

LordSkyFury #15 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:38 PM

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Or you could change give it -8° without siege mode where you loss 2° on sides to get 2° in front, than it would be fair, but los 4° on sides to gain just 2° on front is not that good.

_AceDane_ #16 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:43 PM

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Once again WG. Last time you tried this rebalance people werent happy. whats different from the last iteration? will you at least act like you listen to what we actually want?. the hydrpneumatic suspension is gonna effectively nerf the gundepression since its situational. the lower dmg per shot but faster reload is basically a neutral change. might as well not change that. the nerf in accuracy is just complete BS it is the exact opposite of what people wanted. the gun stabillisation buff is sorta good but it comes with such a big nerf to acc that is probably will make no difference anyways. the nerf in penetration is just retarded. (Sorry not sorry because it really is. I mean you would have to litterally have a piece of lettuce for a brain to think that is a good idea with all the super heavily armored tanks derping around at top tiers FIX THIS IMMEDIATLY)

 

It all can basically be summed up like this.

 

1. You can give the STB the hydropneumatic suspension but pls implement it better than this (other people have already given you the material for that in this thread. also this is effectively a nerf to the tanks depression so this also counts as the argument for the next lines.)

2. Dont touch the gun other than giving it better stabilisation (Faster reload is "a"ids to play against and the lower pen, acc and dmg will make it "a"ids to play with as well.)

3. Buff the turret. (Because this is litterally the only outright good thing about the change.)

4. Speed nerf? Are you high? With all the other things effectively getting nerfed with these changes? - Leave the speed alone if anything that needs a buff in either HP or top speed (Pls dont EVER make this pass. speed nerfs kills mediums when you cant even run form heavies.)

 

There! That is litterally all you have to "f"loody do. stop trying the force this exact version of the tank. We have alraedy made it clear through polls etc. that this change will do nothing but make the STB EVEN LESS ENJOYABLE and far worse 

 

HAVE A GOOD "H"ECKIN DAY AND PLS FOR THE LOVE OF HIS ALMIGHTY HOLYNESS PLS RECONSIDER.


Edited by _AceDane_, 17 May 2019 - 08:47 PM.


LordSkyFury #17 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:09 PM

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I am still testing this tank and it still gives me mixed feelings. The gun, mobility and agility changes are really cool, but the siege mode is just weird.

Wildcatze #18 Posted 18 May 2019 - 01:48 AM

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The STB-1 is absolutely a monster, I got 4100 DMP on this tank and boy the pneumatic suspension is amazing, works good from what I've experienced so far.

You have done a very good job with the STB, the armor works good, the gun seems to be a lot better now and may I say, better than on the obj 140.

I am affraid that the rusky tanks will have a true competitor now :D



PhilKingz #19 Posted 18 May 2019 - 02:17 AM

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View PostWildcatze, on 18 May 2019 - 01:48 AM, said:

The STB-1 is absolutely a monster, I got 4100 DMP on this tank and boy the pneumatic suspension is amazing, works good from what I've experienced so far.

You have done a very good job with the STB, the armor works good, the gun seems to be a lot better now and may I say, better than on the obj 140.

I am affraid that the rusky tanks will have a true competitor now :D

 

No, as a competitor for the russians the STB-1 is still not armored enough, even though it is better now. Yet, i agree that STB-1 will be a Monster in the right hands, not mine for sure as im a noob and handling ridgelines and the hydro.susp needs more skill than i have.

But that does not change the fact that it is so much stronger now. I dont know what the people above are critizising in terms of those "slight buffs" and "heavy nerfs". Are they talking about  an old iteration? Cause the STB-1 on the testserver has comparable gunhandling to the Patton, without the need of stabilizer and while beeing faster and having a lot more DPM. You can even take improved vents on this thing. The armorbuffs make it a bit more consistent and the suspension is a nice addition. 5 more HP/t ratio is godlike.People saying that this tanks is worse than the old STB-1 cannot be helped. It is still not noobfriendly for people like me, but it will murder things in the hands of good players.

 

Im also fine with the STB-1 theme - very mobile ridgeline warrior with extreme gunhandling and DPM - this is a good package and consistent package.

I want to see more of this stuff for other tanks. It also makes the AMX30B kinda obsolete. I quess that is the reason why the 30B is not released yet,

cause it gets another overhaul.


Edited by PhilKingz, 18 May 2019 - 02:21 AM.


Wildcatze #20 Posted 18 May 2019 - 02:24 AM

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Hello again,

 

After testing the STB for a few more battles, this is what I've concluded:

- the mobility is better than before because even if the top speed dropped by 3 km/h, it gains more by having better acceleration and it is overall reaching positions much faster than before;

-the gun behaves very good not, it is not a problem that the alpha damage dropped, because it reloads much faster and all the other aspects are very good now, the gun stabilization is on par and the aiming time is also amazing now;

-the armor is better and it is observable, it helps you fight more safely in the ridge lines now, while also maintaining he overall balance by having the rest of the places paper like;

-the pneumatic suspension: from what I've observer, you first have to stop in order for it to engage, and it does have some delay in the activation, and overall feels like something is wrong. I saw an image above with the tank being able to use the pneumatic suspension in the side ways too, and I believe that if you can engineer it in this game too, it would be quite a neat feature to the tank. Just refine it a bit;

-the traverse speed for the chassis and the turret is very fast, especially on the turret, makes it very dangerous for the enemy when you are flanking them, and it helps when trying to aim for the tracks of the tanks when circling them; 

-the view range drop is not significant since it can be easily increased with better crew and equipment;

-the increase in HP is good but not necessary;

 

Overall, the STB-1 performs a lot better than before because the gut handling is very much better and it does have some level of better protection in the turret, as an STB-1 fan, I am satisfied. <3 

01:28 Added after 3 minutes
Just as a small addition, I've been left alone on a flank in Pilsen against a full hp STB and a full HP AMX M4 (the tier 10 heavy), and by correctly using the tracking damages and the ridge lines, I have absolutely murdered them, while I have survived with 80% hp. You can not do that with too many tanks in the current patch. Having 4100 DMP with 95% of the shells actually pennign the enemy is absolutely frightening for the enemy.





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