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Do they have CW in mind when balancing tanks ?

Balance CW

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shane73tank #1 Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:12 AM

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lots of posts re the balance to NATO mediums this year and quite often in them someone mentions how these tanks are not viable in competitive games , some never were (leopard) some were once (E50M) but not anymore. 

 

It got me thinking , wouldn’t it be nice if the balance departments goal at T10 was to address this, most will still be fine in randoms  but it would give more variety to CW and encourage a more varied map design to accommodate them.

 

it might even encourage more people to play in those game modes, thoughts on a postcard ? 

 


Edited by shane73tank, 17 May 2019 - 06:13 AM.


7thSyndicate #2 Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:23 AM

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Nah, only Russian tanks need to be competitive

chainreact0r #3 Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:30 AM

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In order for a tank to be viable in CW, you need to compare it with 260/907/chieftain. A tank has to be fast, impenetrable hulldown and have trollish armor during a push so you can't snap at it, and RNG sometimes saves you even if enemies aim for weakspots. There are two possible choices(lets take E-50M as example):

1.Buff it so it's on par with 907 DPM and armor and keep the rest of the characteristics, which would result in the most broken tank in the game probably topping off even the 279e

2. Buff some and nerf some in order to bring the stats close to 907, which will only result in a 907 2.0.

Bottom line, you can't make a tank competitive for clan wars without either making it OP or just making copies of the current meta tanks.

 

edit: thought of something else

Take the 260 for example. there are 5 heaviums in the game 260,5A,277,430U,IS-7. The 260 has the best embodiement of the characteristics mentioned above, so its the best and only heavium played(first choice anyway). And btw 260 became the best only after it was buffed, before 277 and 5A were used. So WG already did what you just asked :P .


Edited by chainreact0r, 17 May 2019 - 06:34 AM.


fwhaatpiraat #4 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:04 AM

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View Post7thSyndicate, on 17 May 2019 - 06:23 AM, said:

Nah, only Russian tanks need to be competitive

Basically this.



Cobra6 #5 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:28 AM

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If they actually balanced tanks according to highly competitive modes like CW/Skirmishes they'd balance them according to the more skilled players and thus would end up with far better balanced vehicles then trying to artificially compensate for random 44% players deficiencies in tank balancing.

 

WoT is currently balancing tanks to negate flaws in gameplay by bad players which inherently will end you up with unbalanced/broken/OP vehicles. Balancing according to good/great players that use a vehicle to it's maximum potential ensures that you are not over-correcting balancing.

But then again it would mean that the majority of the player base would become worse in these vehicles as they are no longer compensating for their mistakes.

 

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undutchable80 #6 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:11 AM

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Since we have tanks that can be played only in FL-mode, couldnt WG do the same for CW mode? So if you own an E50M, you get a E50M-CW in your garage, which is rebalanced for that mode and only playable in that mode? Idea?

Geno1isme #7 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:33 AM

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No matter how you balance the tanks, you'll always just see a small fraction in competitive modes. Because there simply are just a few roles, and there will always be a best-in-class tank for those roles.

Homer_J #8 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:45 AM

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The only way to balance tanks for CW is to make them all exactly identical.  Or at least all of a class identical.

 

The slightest minor difference is enough to make one the must have for a specific tactic.


Edited by Homer_J, 17 May 2019 - 08:46 AM.


Sfinski #9 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:52 AM

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They dont Have anything in mind when they balance tanks...

Cobra6 #10 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:25 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 17 May 2019 - 07:45 AM, said:

The only way to balance tanks for CW is to make them all exactly identical.  Or at least all of a class identical.

 

The slightest minor difference is enough to make one the must have for a specific tactic.

 

That is not true though, that just means it's best in class, for instance single-shot medium tank. Minor differences in DPM or armour won't make one vehicle the go-to by default. What does however if one (cough 140) has an effective DPM of something like 3500 while the other has an effective DPM of 2500, that difference is just too big.

 

However, as you can see when playing competitive modes clans with better players generally have a bit more freedom in terms of vehicles. If it comes down to 0,01 dispersion or 100 DPM in a fight it generally is the player skill that decides the outcome.

 

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fwhaatpiraat #11 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:28 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 17 May 2019 - 08:45 AM, said:

The only way to balance tanks for CW is to make them all exactly identical.  Or at least all of a class identical.

 

The slightest minor difference is enough to make one the must have for a specific tactic.

 

Oh no, not at all. But as long as power creep is WG's main strategy, proper balance will never happen. And that's why skirmishes and cw battles have the same setups most of the time.

If_I_Die_You_Die_Too #12 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:35 AM

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If you want balance then you have single type tank battles with exactly the same loadouts and crews

 

edit: and no mods


Edited by If_I_Die_You_Die_Too, 17 May 2019 - 09:36 AM.


shane73tank #13 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:55 PM

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View Postchainreact0r, on 17 May 2019 - 05:30 AM, said:

In order for a tank to be viable in CW, you need to compare it with 260/907/chieftain. A tank has to be fast, impenetrable hulldown and have trollish armor during a push so you can't snap at it, and RNG sometimes saves you even if enemies aim for weakspots. There are two possible choices(lets take E-50M as example):

1.Buff it so it's on par with 907 DPM and armor and keep the rest of the characteristics, which would result in the most broken tank in the game probably topping off even the 279e

2. Buff some and nerf some in order to bring the stats close to 907, which will only result in a 907 2.0.

Bottom line, you can't make a tank competitive for clan wars without either making it OP or just making copies of the current meta tanks.

 

edit: thought of something else

Take the 260 for example. there are 5 heaviums in the game 260,5A,277,430U,IS-7. The 260 has the best embodiement of the characteristics mentioned above, so its the best and only heavium played(first choice anyway). And btw 260 became the best only after it was buffed, before 277 and 5A were used. So WG already did what you just asked :P .

Well I guess my point is more along the lines of why are not the E5, and other T10 heavies viable and yes why make a 260 better than the others so that we are now down to a single tank preference - btw I do like that the S.conq is also an option 

 

 

View PostHomer_J, on 17 May 2019 - 07:45 AM, said:

The only way to balance tanks for CW is to make them all exactly identical.  Or at least all of a class identical.

 

The slightest minor difference is enough to make one the must have for a specific tactic.

 

I'd like them to accept the more difficult challenge of making maps more varied too so you have a wider combination of maps/tanks that are viable - I think WG have things easy and lazy today with there being a hull down meta. Whatever happens up to T10 could be different but at T10 you've grinded quite a bit to get there, make getting there worthwhile for all lines - purty please 

 



LordMuffin #14 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:40 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 17 May 2019 - 08:45 AM, said:

The only way to balance tanks for CW is to make them all exactly identical.  Or at least all of a class identical.

 

The slightest minor difference is enough to make one the must have for a specific tactic.

No, there is no truth to this. 

 

You can make different tanks being good at different aspects and still have all of them being viable in CWs.

 

But it would require WG to actually balance the tanks and understand how tanks interact in competetive modes.



Schepel #15 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:43 PM

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The only way to make more tanks relevant for competitive modes is to introduce more varied maps.

LordMuffin #16 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:45 PM

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View PostSchepel, on 17 May 2019 - 10:43 PM, said:

The only way to make more tanks relevant for competitive modes is to introduce more varied maps.

And not have tanks which are plain superior to most other tanks in every single different role that tank can fulfill.







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