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WG, can you fix the Conqueror's turret please?


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blockypanzer #1 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:12 AM

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Pretty much, fix the damn conqueror turret. It's supposedly got spaced armour on it, and the gun amntle is supposed to act as spaced armour but has nothing behind it. Neither of these works. When you're losing trades at range to an Object 257, because he just shits HEAT into your turret front and pens 100% reliably, that's a balance issue. I'm talking HEAT penning through the spaced armour on the cheeks, HEAT penning right through the gun mantle, HEAT penning through the most angled part of the cupola, HEAT penning through the optic to the right of the turret roof... etc. 

 

Spaced armour vs HEAT only seems to work until it's RASHA HEAT да!



Jauhesammutin #2 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:15 AM

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View Postblockypanzer, on 17 May 2019 - 07:12 AM, said:

Pretty much, fix the damn conqueror turret. It's supposedly got spaced armour on it, and the gun amntle is supposed to act as spaced armour but has nothing behind it. Neither of these works. When you're losing trades at range to an Object 257, because he just shits HEAT into your turret front and pens 100% reliably, that's a balance issue. I'm talking HEAT penning through the spaced armour on the cheeks, HEAT penning right through the gun mantle, HEAT penning through the most angled part of the cupola, HEAT penning through the optic to the right of the turret roof... etc. 

 

Spaced armour vs HEAT only seems to work until it's RASHA HEAT да!

 

Use your gun depression. I had no problems with Conq turret.

Sfinski #3 Posted 17 May 2019 - 08:58 AM

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Its how turrets should Be balanced. Weakspots included obviously. No need For s. Conq like turrets.

Japualtah #4 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:01 AM

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I'm all for a SConq turret revamp.

 

Put an E5-like turret on it this time, and do the same for the Cranewagen, and the IS-7 and... well all other tanks.

Every single tank should have a weak spot, period.



Moomiss #5 Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:54 PM

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i thought he super conquer was a good tank maybe your using it wrong

pecopad #6 Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:57 PM

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View PostMoomiss, on 17 May 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

i thought he super conquer was a good tank maybe your using it wrong

 

Its the tier 9 he's speaking off. And yes it has a big weakspot on the mantlet which makes it very frustrating to play with.

 

Also the weakspot on the top of the track, that allows players to track, damage and sometimes amorack british tanks, its quite annoying.



friedeggnchips #7 Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:59 PM

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View Postblockypanzer, on 17 May 2019 - 07:12 AM, said:

Pretty much, fix the damn conqueror turret. It's supposedly got spaced armour on it, and the gun amntle is supposed to act as spaced armour but has nothing behind it. Neither of these works. When you're losing trades at range to an Object 257, because he just shits HEAT into your turret front and pens 100% reliably, that's a balance issue. I'm talking HEAT penning through the spaced armour on the cheeks, HEAT penning right through the gun mantle, HEAT penning through the most angled part of the cupola, HEAT penning through the optic to the right of the turret roof... etc. 

 

Spaced armour vs HEAT only seems to work until it's RASHA HEAT да!

 

Yeah and the Centurion 7/1 getting penned through its gun mantlet...

friedeggnchips #8 Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:01 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 17 May 2019 - 07:58 AM, said:

Its how turrets should Be balanced. Weakspots included obviously. No need For s. Conq like turrets.

 

COUGH OBJ 705 OBJ 430/430U 

 



UrQuan #9 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:09 PM

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Conqueror turret is quite strong already. Make use of slopes, hills ridges & that gun depression & your weakspots are very hard to hit and  make for excellent bait to rack up some great blocked damage. And I am positively giddy when they fire ineffectual HEAT at that turret.

Thing is, you got to pay attention to your surroundings. While the turret is strong, it doesn't fare well when people can fire at that turret from a side angle. Got to point that turret in their direction. Also, this tank needs the high ground to be effective. Go to a valley or ditch & you surrender your strongest armor points & giving the enemy free access to your weak points. Rather look for the high ground on maps like hilltops & such & make use of that gun depression & strong turret armor.

 

 

My advice would be to watch replays, see if you can improve your positioning. With the Conqueror small adjustments can mean the difference between 'can't touch this!' and 'No plz, it hurts!'. 



MeetriX #10 Posted 17 May 2019 - 07:13 PM

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Where does it say that HEAT can't pen spaced armor?

LordMuffin #11 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:34 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 17 May 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

 

Its the tier 9 he's speaking off. And yes it has a big weakspot on the mantlet which makes it very frustrating to play with.

 

Also the weakspot on the top of the track, that allows players to track, damage and sometimes amorack british tanks, its quite annoying.

If you put yourself in a position where you can be tracked and damaged, you deserve to be tracked and damaged.

 



sabre_ferret #12 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:37 PM

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Fix the bloody rotation speed of it.  I just snuck up on one facing the wrong way and hit him in his arse (which bounced, naturally) and he turned and shot me as I vanished over the ridgeline in about two and a half nanoseconds.  

friedeggnchips #13 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:48 PM

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1. The Mantlet is a weakspot.. You can shoot straight through it and do damage. 

2. The top of the turret is slanted and extremely thin, so overmatching by even fairly small guns happens all too often.

3. The spaced armour doesnt add any actual spaced armour, it just adds around 20mm extra.

 

Why is it that when i look at the Russian tanks their turrets have literally 0 weakspots? take the Object 705/705a, or 430u for example. Its so annoying to see.



Balc0ra #14 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:15 PM

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View Postblockypanzer, on 17 May 2019 - 08:12 AM, said:

Spaced armour vs HEAT only seems to work until it's RASHA HEAT да!

 

Someone needs to look up HEAT mechanics. As there is no rule saying HEAT won't work vs Spaced armor at all. It just reduces it pen ability if the gap is big enough. As HEAT detonates when it hits the spaced armor. And loses 5% pen for every 10 cm it travels after that. If the pen value when he reaches the armor is still good enough, and the impact angle is less then 85 degrees. Then it will still pen. 

 

View Postblockypanzer, on 17 May 2019 - 08:12 AM, said:

 I'm talking HEAT penning through the spaced armour on the cheeks, HEAT penning right through the gun mantle, HEAT penning through the most angled part of the cupola, HEAT penning through the optic to the right of the turret roof... etc.

 

Again, HEAT mechanics. AP auto bounces at 70 degrees vs that cupola. HEAT doesn't, and will still won't ricochet until 85 degrees with no normalization. And even at that angle, it's around 220mm effective. So HEAT will have no issues vs it most times depending on base pen.

 

As for the rest of the spots you did mention? Well, the mantle area right next to the gun on each side it's 250mm effective iirc, not spaced. Armor behind the optics is 250mm, optics counts as 0mm effective armor with no space iirc. And as for the turret cheeks? Again depending on impact angle and where he hits, as the gap distance will variate. As you don't have to turn your gun far away from his, to give less then 220 effective armor with a small gap.

 

But.. as most have pointed out. It's not a super heavy. It's a support heavy. If nothing could pen that turret with anything with that DPM as it had no weakspots. It would be a tad to broken.

 



m4inbrain #15 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:23 PM

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The problem simply is that people don't understand how HEAT works.

 

HEAT absolutely can pen spaced armour. I feel like people are getting weird expectations due to the Sconq being praised as the end all of everything in regards to turret armor. You just need high enough punch on your premium ammo to punch through spaced armour, and rasha ammo, well.. What is it, around 320 on the 257, bit more on the T-10? That pen is on par with the really big guns on tier 9 (TDs), or rather, that's more pen than half the TDs on T9. 

 

One can argue if a (rasha, of course) heavy tank needs to have 340 pen on the premium ammo (ST-1, T-10), but here we are. 


Edited by m4inbrain, 17 May 2019 - 11:24 PM.


friedeggnchips #16 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:27 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 17 May 2019 - 10:15 PM, said:

 

But.. as most have pointed out. It's not a super heavy. It's a support heavy. If nothing could pen that turret with anything with that DPM as it had no weakspots. It would be a tad to broken.

 

 

https://tanks.gg/tank/obj-705/model

 

https://tanks.gg/tank/obj-705a/model

 

https://tanks.gg/tank/obj-430u/model

 

https://tanks.gg/tank/is-7/model

 

if nothing could pen the turret, did you say?



NekoPuffer_PPP #17 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:50 PM

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Pro tip: Don't poke out when you know a goldspammer is aiming at you. Period.

 

The Conq's turret is strong, but it's not invincible. Side note, I remember the Obj. 260's gun mantlet being weak, they fixed it because it really was tragic, 250mm flat armor, pennable by SC's standard ammo....



m4inbrain #18 Posted 18 May 2019 - 12:20 AM

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Quote

 If nothing could pen that turret with anything with that DPM as it had no weakspots. It would be a tad to broken.

 

Ahm.. Did i miss something? If Conqueror DPM was broken without weakspots, what about the Emil II? The 705? The T-10? M4-51? M103? All those (and others, with certain guns) have more DPM than a Conqueror, and every single one has a better turret. 2100 DPM isn't gamebreaking (especially compared to almost 2600 on the Emil II that has higher alpha AND autoloader). Hell, even with the biggest guns, like the 705 which has a virtually (it's actually literally, only with russian HEAT you have a slight chance of penning if you're on level ground - if the 705 has elevation, even 340 heat pen is a guaranteed bounce) impenetrable turret, you lose 100 DPM but gain 160 alpha over the Conqueror. 

 

Lets be real here. I know you're trying to make this a Super Conqueror issue, but this isn't about the super conqueror. The Conqueror doesn't have great DPM (it's mid field, and on top of that with low alpha, so you can't outtrade anything). 

 

To be clear, i absolutely think that the Conqueror (and the Super Conqueror) should have a weakspot in the turret. But before you complain about anything in regards to the Conq (or Sconq, for that matter) turret, lets fix the bunkers sitting on top of russian heavies for almost a decade first. 


Edited by m4inbrain, 18 May 2019 - 12:23 AM.


wEight_Tanker #19 Posted 18 May 2019 - 01:33 AM

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Nope. Never have I ever overplayed a Conqueror in my 257 while its hiding its hull. APCR, HEAT, even HE does 0 damage. The cupola on Conqueror either turns clipping off, absorbs my shells or takes only critical.

gbp2016 #20 Posted 18 May 2019 - 10:26 AM

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Cromwell turret MK I and Mk IV is the same... still I have to spend 4200 exp. to obtain MK IV ????




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