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RNG.... not that bad is it?

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Lagalaza #1 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:38 AM

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Hi folks,

 

I've seen a lot of stuff in chat and in the forums with people talking about "rigged" and "unfair" RNG. Is it as bad for some people as they say?

 

I ask because it seems to work exactly as it says on the tin to me. In a Matilda yesterday firing at a target and the recticle covered nearly all of it. Fired ten shots, standard ammo, six pens, three non pens and one miss. RNG working as it should. This seems to me to be the norm. If i go out in a KV85 I hit more often than not... good gun. If I go out in an O-I, it's possible to miss from 2 metres away!! All this seems to fit with the stats for the various guns and with the crew abilities. RNG works fine. I have made a couple of great shots in the T-29 yesterday, hitting the cupola on a Leo hiding behind a ridge from 200 metres away. Thirty seconds later I fire at him again after he exposed the side of his tank above the ridge line... shot flies high and completely misses!! To me, it appears as if this is what people are moaning about but surely that's just the nature of the beast. It's random. Pleased as punch with the first two hits, annoyed as hell with the miss that would have got me the kill. That's the game.

 

Is it just a case, as it seems to be in life, of people only remembering when things go badly and not all the times when it goes well or are there players who genuinely have really bad RNG results for whatever reason? Am I missing something in gameplay that has an affect on shots that I don't know about? What do others think?

 



Captain_Kremen0 #2 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:45 AM

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Miss shot = RNG

Hit a worldy from 400m = skillz

 

 



4nt #3 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:48 AM

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People who claim rigged or constant bad RNG are... Well, let's say they have selective memory, so that I won't get a warning point.

Brownape #4 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:04 AM

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gotta love the fresh perspective of non frustrated players

StinkyStonky #5 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:16 AM

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View PostLagalaza, on 17 May 2019 - 09:38 AM, said:

All this seems to fit with the stats for the various guns and with the crew abilities. RNG works fine.

 

OP is spot on.

 

Aiming shouldn't be perfect.  Some shots should miss.

Penetration shouldn't be a pre-determined certainty.  Some shots should bounce off.

Damage shouldn't be a fixed number.  There's an element of luck.

Module damage shouldn't be guaranteed.  There should be a random element.

 

There is one aspect of the RNG where I think WG is guilty of undocumented Shenanigans and that is in the very end game.

When the result of the battle becomes a forgone conclusion, when the one remaining tank has no chance against the remaining 6 or 7, I'm convinced that the RNG does change in order to guarantee that the game ends promptly.  For the wining team, all shots hit and pen and do criticals.

 

I could be guilty of "Tin foil hat confirmation bias", but I don't think so. 



shikaka9 #6 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:18 AM

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View PostCaptain_Kremen0, on 17 May 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

Miss shot = RNG

Hit a worldy from 400m = skillz

 

 

 

Miss shot from 20 m = RNG

Hit from 400 m to 10 mm wide frontal weakspot = LOL GG WG

 

:trollface:



pecopad #7 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:21 AM

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We don't know if RNG is "rigged" or not, and we will never know...
 
RNG is a source of frustration, and IMHO its clear that In WoT has too much of an influence because its cumulative, dispersion+pen+damage, so it ends being too much and should be reduced.
 
And by the way, I do not think the shot compensation mechanism is  working has it should, leading players to hit much more times than it should in very small areas of exposed tanks.
 
 

Edited by pecopad, 17 May 2019 - 11:24 AM.


malachi6 #8 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:27 AM

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As far as most people are concerned.  The RNG is rigged because it has a negative aspect.  This is easily provable, as not once in all the years of this game being out, has anybody complained about one shots, miracle hits or bouncing a shot that kills them.

 

Basically, the majority of people complaining about rigged RNG, want it rigged.  Just in their favour.  That or positive RNG does not exist because of skill.


Edited by malachi6, 17 May 2019 - 11:28 AM.


pecopad #9 Posted 17 May 2019 - 11:35 AM

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View Postmalachi6, on 17 May 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

As far as most people are concerned.  The RNG is rigged because it has a negative aspect.  This is easily provable, as not once in all the years of this game being out, has anybody complained about one shots, miracle hits or bouncing a shot that kills them.

 

Basically, the majority of people complaining about rigged RNG, want it rigged.  Just in their favour.  That or positive RNG does not exist because of skill.

 

I honestly do not think players think like that... rigged RNG, what does that even mean?

 

We complain about aimbots and cheats, which is not the same thing

 



Ggorc #10 Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:34 PM

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RNG is rigged, the game bribes you with good wins from time to time to create addiction(punishment/reward) where everything happens magically and my 400 mediocre damage per game player makes 5k damage and is invincible.

Edited by Ggorc, 17 May 2019 - 01:38 PM.


Moomiss #11 Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:51 PM

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RNG what

 



pecopad #12 Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:54 PM

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View PostMoomiss, on 17 May 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

RNG what

 

 

Can you explain why in most of this kind of shots the player never stays in sniper mode after he shoots?

Moomiss #13 Posted 17 May 2019 - 01:57 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 17 May 2019 - 12:54 PM, said:

 

Can you explain why in most of this kind of shots the player never stays in sniper mode after he shoots?

 

when i took the shot i wasn't planing on hitting him i was just pissed off and fired my gun randomly at him lol the chances of ti actually hitting where insane

NUKLEAR_SLUG #14 Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:00 PM

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View PostLagalaza, on 17 May 2019 - 10:38 AM, said:

 

Is it just a case, as it seems to be in life, of people only remembering when things go badly and not all the times when it goes well or are there players who genuinely have really bad RNG results for whatever reason? Am I missing something in gameplay that has an affect on shots that I don't know about? What do others think?

 

 

Selective memory coupled with a good dose of it being a convenient mechanic to blame when they fail to perform to the level that they feel they are entitled to.

pecopad #15 Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:01 PM

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View PostMoomiss, on 17 May 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

 

when i took the shot i wasn't planing on hitting him i was just pissed off and fired my gun randomly at him lol the chances of ti actually hitting where insane

 

It was you replay... Ok... I love those shots...

although I confess that I usually get more P**** with the teammates that let enemies fire from that position  without any punishment, so i usually shoot at them...

13:05 Added after 3 minutes

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 17 May 2019 - 02:00 PM, said:

 

Selective memory coupled with a good dose of it being a convenient mechanic to blame when they fail to perform to the level that they feel they are entitled to.

 

Its not selective memory... I think anyone who plays WoT for some time knows that many times its easier to hit a tank with a small part exposed than a particular weakspot. I think its due to the shooting compensation mechanics, don't think its made on a purpose.

 

I don't think that there are many players who think RNG is "rigged", although there is nothing extraordinary about that,if you stop to think a little about it, other games have this tweaking features.


Edited by pecopad, 17 May 2019 - 02:08 PM.


NUKLEAR_SLUG #16 Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:06 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 17 May 2019 - 02:01 PM, said:

Its not selective memory... I think anyone who plays WoT for some time knows that many times its easier to hit a tank with a small part exposed than a particular weakspot. I think its due to the shooting compensation mechanics, don't think its made on a purpose.

 

I don't think that there are many players who think RNG is "rigged", although there is nothing extraordinary about that,if you stop to think a little about it, other games have this tweaking features.

 

It's no more or less difficult to hit a cupola on a ridgeline than it is to hit any other equally sized part of a tank. What part of a tank you aim at has absolutely no bearing on the dispersion of your shots. Aim compensation relates only to distance and is only a problem when you mouse over the skybox and it throws your aim off. If you're aiming at a tank it'll go where you aim it.

FryTheFly #17 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:47 PM

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RNG oh mighty RNG, I pray you, I go down on my kneels in front of you, please be on me on next battle and after that. Oh mighty RNG, can you see this herd I sacrifice for you, please be on my side.

Oh mihghty RNG, I want to be unicum, I pray you please make me unicum.



MeetriX #18 Posted 17 May 2019 - 09:54 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 17 May 2019 - 06:06 PM, said:

 

It's no more or less difficult to hit a cupola on a ridgeline than it is to hit any other equally sized part of a tank. What part of a tank you aim at has absolutely no bearing on the dispersion of your shots. Aim compensation relates only to distance and is only a problem when you mouse over the skybox and it throws your aim off. If you're aiming at a tank it'll go where you aim it.

 

So true.

No matter how big a target is, the center is always the same size.



AP507b #19 Posted 17 May 2019 - 10:28 PM

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Ever had a battle where almost every aimed shot you have fired has missed? KV1 with something like a 60% accuracy & 20 shots all missed once. Next battle back to aimed shots hitting. If that isn't something server side saying that its your turn to have the game from hell I don't know what is?

WojtekTheBear #20 Posted 18 May 2019 - 12:12 PM

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People tend to notice negative stuff more than positive one that's a given. In other case we wouldn't be talking here, we would be eaten by a tiger in the woods which happens to lie next to a beautiful bed of flowers.
Human nature needs to be taken into account when designing game mechanics and if this game mechanic is not compatible with human nature then it's a bad mechanic. In the way that WoT is constructed, some RNG is probably necessary for it to be "fun" at all. If you changed the core concepts of the game, you could eliminate the RNG but it wouldn't be WoT, it would be a different game. In CS for example, there is no RNG. Even the recoil patterns are precalculated and you can learn them. Competitive games shouldn't be based on RNG. 
That being said, even if RNG is neccessary for this game to what it is, I still think there is too much of it. 25% of volatility in both directions is simply too much. If you have 200 pen, you can do 150 - 250. It's crazy. The aiming reticle is also quite annoying, the amount of times you shoot fully aimed shots and they go nowhere is very noticable. Yes, people complain less about positive outcomes of the RNG, but that is a human nature, and you can't design game mechanics against it.

 

I think the solution would be to:

1. reduce the RNG from 25% to something less, maybe 15%?

2. rig the RNG in players favor.

What I mean in point 2. I mean that if you shoot someone for X amount of damage and you low roll and leave him on (let's say) 5% hp (or less) than your nominal damage, then the game should behind your back round it up (but no higher than your nominal damage). It would eliminate those situations where you low roll and the enemy is left on 2HP and then kills you which is annoying and at the same time would have no impact on shots that are closer to the nominal damage and would not enchance the high rolls. The same could be done with pen and so on. They could also introduce a better accuracy each time you shoot the same (more or less) spot. And so on. This way it wouldn't impact the game that much, but it would eliminate those most annoying situations.

 

Also let's not forget that RNG is part of monetization strategy. There are ways of mitigating the RNG to some extend: gold ammo and food, both require you to spend a lot of credits and so incentivize you to buy premium account and premium tanks, making this game a pay to win in some aspects.







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