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friedeggnchips #1 Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:11 PM

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Hello mods, before you lock this thread id like to say this is not about changing arty it is more about the people that play arty.

 

So, im in a battle, pushing a flank and im about to kill an enemy who i am face hugging. But oh, nevermind, the friendly arty has decided he wants a kill as well, two apparently. He doesnt really care if the second kill is a teamkill, same thing really. 

 

This has happened countless times, and it is almost as if arty cannot see i am on the map. My point is if you do play arty, support your team instead of scrambling to kill anyone you see no matter who else is nearby.


Edited by friedeggnchips, 17 May 2019 - 02:13 PM.


shikaka9 #2 Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:15 PM

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and the struggle continues, there is no fate :bajan:

 



Kartoshkaya #3 Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:18 PM

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I suggest removing arty from the game as the only decent solution to this matter

friedeggnchips #4 Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:20 PM

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View PostKartoshkaya, on 17 May 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

I suggest removing arty from the game as the only decent solution to this matter

 

Try and keep this thread about the players, dont want it getting taken down by the mods :child:
13:21 Added after 1 minute

View Postshikaka9, on 17 May 2019 - 01:15 PM, said:

and the struggle continues, there is no fate :bajan:

 

 

Either be killed by enemy arty or your own teams. hiding isnt even an option anymore :bush:



Miepie #5 Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:43 PM

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View Postfriedeggnchips, on 17 May 2019 - 02:11 PM, said:

 

 

This has happened countless times, and it is almost as if arty cannot see i am on the map. 

 

Open the .config file of your Invisibility mod in a text editor and change "VisibleToTeam = 0" to "VisibleToTeam = 1". :great:

AP507b #6 Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:51 PM

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Maybe if arty didn't have sniper like accuracy a player wouldn't be tempted to try such a shot? Way too accurate for my liking with way too smaller target circle. You being team killed by a clicker is just another symptom off all the problems present with the class.

 

I played a battle once on Lakeville where my one Wespe secured the valley against oncoming enemy tanks. Wound up getting mastery with a barely trained crew. Talk about an overpowered weapon.



WilhelmII #7 Posted 17 May 2019 - 02:59 PM

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View Postfriedeggnchips, on 17 May 2019 - 01:11 PM, said:

Hello mods, before you lock this thread id like to say this is not about changing arty it is more about the people that play arty.

 

So, im in a battle, pushing a flank and im about to kill an enemy who i am face hugging. But oh, nevermind, the friendly arty has decided he wants a kill as well, two apparently. He doesnt really care if the second kill is a teamkill, same thing really. 

 

This has happened countless times, and it is almost as if arty cannot see i am on the map. My point is if you do play arty, support your team instead of scrambling to kill anyone you see no matter who else is nearby.

 

I can only Agree / Disagree with you dependent on the following, if you had no warning of the Arty intention to fire on the same vehicle as you, then YES he is in the wrong and should be given a warning.

 

All Arty are supposed to give warning of intention, to fire on a target at "Danger Close" to friendly forces, they do this by pressing F2, this shows up on the mini map as the intended target, but more importantly it places a ringed splash area Arty marker on the map, However if you are one of those who never look at their mini map, then at least you will have a big set of yellow markers on your actual battle map, which makes it YOUR responsibility to get out of the immediate splash area, which still will not stop you from engaging the enemy tank, but will put you out of the stun area, if arty gave you this warning and you did not move outside the splash area ring, then it becomes your fault not Arties, Both parties have a resposibility.

 

To the arty that fires danger close and gives no warning thereby causing stun to friendly forces then I would hope that an algorithm could be produced by WG/WOT to confirm whether arty gave warning or not, if not Arty gets a warning screen popup, if Arty does this 1 or 2 times more ( to be decided by WG) then he gets kicked just like anyone else performing team Bleeding or Kills  which I think would fairly solve everything and make Arty more accountable for their actions, and others for moving not moving out of the splash area. SIMPLE!!

 

View PostKartoshkaya, on 17 May 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

I suggest removing arty from the game as the only decent solution to this matter

 

Don't be ridiculous, Arty is TOTALLY essential to this game, I suggest you only reason for your comment is arty manages to take you out a lot and stops you doing what you like as far as movement at long range is concerned , Live with it, IMO if Arty is taken out close down the game. 

friedeggnchips #8 Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:14 PM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 17 May 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

All Arty are supposed to give warning of intention, to fire on a target at "Danger Close" to friendly forces, they do this by pressing F2, this shows up on the mini map as the intended target, but more importantly it places a ringed splash area Arty marker on the map, However if you are one of those who never look at their mini map, then at least you will have a big set of yellow markers on your actual battle map, which makes it YOUR responsibility to get out of the immediate splash area, which still will not stop you from engaging the enemy tank, but will put you out of the stun area, if arty gave you this warning and you did not move outside the splash area ring, then it becomes your fault not Arties, Both parties have a resposibility.

 

To the arty that fires danger close and gives no warning thereby causing stun to friendly forces then I would hope that an algorithm could be produced by WG/WOT to confirm whether arty gave warning or not, if not Arty gets a warning screen popup, if Arty does this 1 or 2 times more ( to be decided by WG) then he gets kicked just like anyone else performing team Bleeding or Kills  which I think would fairly solve everything and make Arty more accountable for their actions, and others for moving not moving out of the splash area. SIMPLE!!

 

No, they never give warnings. 
Also, it would still be their fault if they did hit a friendly whilst shooting an enemy. Artillery is there for support not as a way to farm kills. Why should tanks on the frontline have to let artillery shoot at targets while they sit back? The game needs more players to be active, not sit and wait for artillery.

 

Also your idea for a warning/ban system is stupid. Youre assuming that arty will actually bother to give a warning and also that if a player moves into an arty shot after a warning is given then they should be banned? When i am trying to keep myself alive and also destroy enemy tanks i dont want to have to worry about a clicker who wants a bit of damage.


Edited by friedeggnchips, 17 May 2019 - 03:20 PM.


SaintMaddenus #9 Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:27 PM

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"No, they never give warnings. 
Also, it would still be their fault if they did hit a friendly whilst shooting an enemy. Artillery is there for support not as a way to farm kills. Why should tanks on the frontline have to let artillery shoot at targets while they sit back? The game needs more players to be active, not sit and wait for artillery."

Yes some do, trouble is many arty don't realise that the game in a fast tank is more intense and you may miss the message of "firing here" or "aiming at" messages.  Too many arty don't get it.    They have to hold back their shots to see what will happen.  Personally I'd rather avenge a player than "save" them from the enemy by taking away a ton of my teammates health.   Unfortunately the game doesn't reward this behaviour nor does it punish those that harm teammates enough..



WilhelmII #10 Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:34 PM

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View Postfriedeggnchips, on 17 May 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:

 

No, they never give warnings. 
Also, it would still be their fault if they did hit a friendly whilst shooting an enemy. Artillery is there for support not as a way to farm kills. Why should tanks on the frontline have to let artillery shoot at targets while they sit back? The game needs more players to be active, not sit and wait for artillery.

 

Then those Arty that never give warnings should be both kicked and eventually banned if they just carry on just like everyone else. Arty is not just for support at all it is also used to pave the way forward for friendly forces,  For Real Arty do this in Battle to give warning to friendly forces to enable them to take safety measures before the arty strike, if no warnings are given , guess what would happen, but if you have the warning then you don't just carry on and say to hell with it I am going in no matter what, then who's fault would that be at the Court Marshal???  But in this GAME if you have been given the warning and the splash rings are on the ground and you stay within them then YOUR FAULT, why do you think it has been designed this way.

 

No one is saying you sit and wait for arty, but if arty is to support you then they are also allowed to fire on the same target as you, because no one can claim sole rights on any target, the mere fact that you know Arty is firing on your target is because they also are being active just like you so, LOOK out for the Arty warning splash rings because when I give it I will give you a small time to move to the outer ring then I fire, if you are still inside it tough YOUR FAULT as you have ignored the warning.

 

 


Edited by WilhelmII, 17 May 2019 - 03:43 PM.


friedeggnchips #11 Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:45 PM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 17 May 2019 - 02:34 PM, said:

 

Then those Arty that never give warnings should be both kicked and eventually banned if they just carry on just like everyone else. Arty is not just for support at all it is also used to pave the way forward for friendly forces,  For Real Arty do this in Battle to give warning to friendly forces to enable them to take safety measures before the arty strike, if no warnings are given , guess what would happen, but if you have the warning then you don't just carry on and say to hell with it I am going in no matter what, then who's fault would that be at the Court Marshal???  But in this GAME if you have been given the warning and the splash rings are on the ground and you stay within them then YOUR FAULT, why do you think it has been designed this way.

 

No one is saying you sit and wait for arty, but if arty is to support you then they are also allowed to fire on the same target as you, because no one can claim sole rights on any target, the mere fact that you know Arty is firing on your target is because they also are being active just like you so, LOOK out for the Arty warning splash rings because when I give it I will give you a small time to move to the outer ring then I fire, if you are still inside it tough YOUR FAULT as you have ignored the warning.

 

No, they shouldnt. No one listens to the warnings even if they are made, which is very rare anyway. Banning anyone for accidental team damage is not the way to go, nor is introducing some complicated system that just confuses arty and the friendlies they are trying to help and causes tension between players. Im just sick of mindless drones aiming straight at the tank in front of me without realising or even caring how it affects me.

WilhelmII #12 Posted 17 May 2019 - 03:56 PM

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View Postfriedeggnchips, on 17 May 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:

 

No, they never give warnings. 
Also, it would still be their fault if they did hit a friendly whilst shooting an enemy. Artillery is there for support not as a way to farm kills. Why should tanks on the frontline have to let artillery shoot at targets while they sit back? The game needs more players to be active, not sit and wait for artillery.

 

Also your idea for a warning/ban system is stupid. Youre assuming that arty will actually bother to give a warning and also that if a player moves into an arty shot after a warning is given then they should be banned? When i am trying to keep myself alive and also destroy enemy tanks i dont want to have to worry about a clicker who wants a bit of damage.

 

Ref my idea Warning /Ban read it again stupid, I said if arty fails to give a warning Arty gets the warning, and if Arty does it 1 or 2 times more then Arty gets kicked and if they carry it on in future games they get a ban, I never said at any time that a tank should get any form of official warning or ban, My method mean ARTY MUST in all cases give warning, if not they get warned, so you saying if Arty bother, well my way they will have to, Me personally I always give warnings and I always watch to see if friendlies are moving out of any rings before I fire, I don't just warn and fire immediately I give friendlies time to react, and if their reaction is I am going nowhere, then tough, they get stunned and damaged just like the enemy, because it is their fault for not moving which is stupid in itself.

WilhelmII #13 Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:11 PM

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View Postfriedeggnchips, on 17 May 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

No, they shouldnt. No one listens to the warnings even if they are made, which is very rare anyway. Banning anyone for accidental team damage is not the way to go, nor is introducing some complicated system that just confuses arty and the friendlies they are trying to help and causes tension between players. Im just sick of mindless drones aiming straight at the tank in front of me without realising or even caring how it affects me.

 

Then by your comment you lose the argument, by your own words you choose to ignore the warning rings, YOUR FAULT, Banning for an Arty Player would only happen if a person playing Arty was team bleading / team killing in every game in the same way bans are calculated for other players in other vehicles, it is not accidental when warnings are not given, and your fire causes damage to friendlies and this carries on and on and on and on in future battles then it is upto WG to decide what to do with the player concerned.

I introduce no new systems as they already exist in the game, (enabling Arty to give both warning and position of intended Arty strike)(F2), I am just suggesting a way of letting the Arty player know that he has not given out a warning and friendly damage has resulted and that he should give warnings in the future, if he does all is well, if he does not then his life becomes hell instead, just like anyone else in any other vehicle 1 shot into a friendly is an accident, 2 is negligent, 3 is unacceptable in any one battle, why should it not be the same for Arty?



friedeggnchips #14 Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:13 PM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 17 May 2019 - 02:56 PM, said:

 

Ref my idea Warning /Ban read it again stupid, I said if arty fails to give a warning Arty gets the warning, and if Arty does it 1 or 2 times more then Arty gets kicked and if they carry it on in future games they get a ban, I never said at any time that a tank should get any form of official warning or ban, My method mean ARTY MUST in all cases give warning, if not they get warned, so you saying if Arty bother, well my way they will have to, Me personally I always give warnings and I always watch to see if friendlies are moving out of any rings before I fire, I don't just warn and fire immediately I give friendlies time to react, and if their reaction is I am going nowhere, then tough, they get stunned and damaged just like the enemy, because it is their fault for not moving which is stupid in itself.

 

its a bad idea, end of. Warnings because you accidentally forget to click f2 before firing, and how would the game distinguish if the arty player was defending himself next to a teammate? it is too confusing to implement.
15:16 Added after 2 minutes

View PostWilhelmII, on 17 May 2019 - 03:11 PM, said:

 

Then by your comment you lose the argument, by your own words you choose to ignore the warning rings, YOUR FAULT, Banning for an Arty Player would only happen if a person playing Arty was team bleading / team killing in every game in the same way bans are calculated for other players in other vehicles, it is not accidental when warnings are not given, and your fire causes damage to friendlies and this carries on and on and on and on in future battles then it is upto WG to decide what to do with the player concerned.

I introduce no new systems as they already exist in the game, (enabling Arty to give both warning and position of intended Arty strike)(F2), I am just suggesting a way of letting the Arty player know that he has not given out a warning and friendly damage has resulted and that he should give warnings in the future, if he does all is well, if he does not then his life becomes hell instead, just like anyone else in any other vehicle 1 shot into a friendly is an accident, 2 is negligent, 3 is unacceptable in any one battle, why should it not be the same for Arty?

 

Right, this is an awful idea and you are just getting really salty now.

I never said that i ignore arty warnings, i said that arty decide to shoot when players are next to the target.

Like i said though, many players dont listen to warnings and if your idea was implemented it would mean that arty could give out a warning, and then purposefully shoot at friendlies without any sanctions...



WilhelmII #15 Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:35 PM

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View Postfriedeggnchips, on 17 May 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

 

No, they shouldnt. No one listens to the warnings even if they are made, which is very rare anyway. Banning anyone for accidental team damage is not the way to go, nor is introducing some complicated system that just confuses arty and the friendlies they are trying to help and causes tension between players. Im just sick of mindless drones aiming straight at the tank in front of me without realising or even caring how it affects me.

 

View Postfriedeggnchips, on 17 May 2019 - 03:13 PM, said:

 

its a bad idea, end of. Warnings because you accidentally forget to click f2 before firing, and how would the game distinguish if the arty player was defending himself next to a teammate? it is too confusing to implement.
15:16 Added after 2 minutes

 

Right, this is an awful idea and you are just getting really salty now.

I never said that i ignore arty warnings, i said that arty decide to shoot when players are next to the target.

Like i said though, many players dont listen to warnings and if your idea was implemented it would mean that arty could give out a warning, and then purposefully shoot at friendlies without any sanctions...

 

YOUR words "NO ONE LISTENS TO WARNINGS" YOUR WORDS and now you say " I never said that I ignore Arty warnings" please which one is it??

 

As it currently stands Arty can do just that!  fire on friendly targets without giving a warning and all that happens is that they pay for the damaged caused to the friendly, my way suggests they have no choice other than to give a warning or they get warned and so on, no one is getting salty I have not called you anything you did not call me first, I really don't care what happens mine was just a thought one way, as it is I give warnings every time and give people time to move to those that don't BOOOM !!! serves them right, they will not lay sole claim to any target, BOOOM !! again up to you if you stay there, while the target is there, then they are fair game to anyone that can get him.  END OF


Edited by WilhelmII, 17 May 2019 - 04:37 PM.


Retro_Drops #16 Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:36 PM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 17 May 2019 - 02:59 PM, said:

 

I can only Agree / Disagree with you dependent on the following, if you had no warning of the Arty intention to fire on the same vehicle as you, then YES he is in the wrong and should be given a warning.

 

All Arty are supposed to give warning of intention, to fire on a target at "Danger Close" to friendly forces, they do this by pressing F2, this shows up on the mini map as the intended target, but more importantly it places a ringed splash area Arty marker on the map, However if you are one of those who never look at their mini map, then at least you will have a big set of yellow markers on your actual battle map, which makes it YOUR responsibility to get out of the immediate splash area, which still will not stop you from engaging the enemy tank, but will put you out of the stun area, if arty gave you this warning and you did not move outside the splash area ring, then it becomes your fault not Arties, Both parties have a resposibility.

 

To the arty that fires danger close and gives no warning thereby causing stun to friendly forces then I would hope that an algorithm could be produced by WG/WOT to confirm whether arty gave warning or not, if not Arty gets a warning screen popup, if Arty does this 1 or 2 times more ( to be decided by WG) then he gets kicked just like anyone else performing team Bleeding or Kills  which I think would fairly solve everything and make Arty more accountable for their actions, and others for moving not moving out of the splash area. SIMPLE!!

 

 

Don't be ridiculous, Arty is TOTALLY essential to this game, I suggest you only reason for your comment is arty manages to take you out a lot and stops you doing what you like as far as movement at long range is concerned , Live with it, IMO if Arty is taken out close down the game. 

 

So if you are face hugging an enemy to not give them a shot on your weak shots but arty decides he wants to shot them and marks the area you are meant to back off so you are exposed? i dont think so. arty has no rights to fire anywhere near a team player in any situation 

Sirebellus #17 Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:44 PM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 17 May 2019 - 03:56 PM, said:

 

My method mean ARTY MUST in all cases give warning, if not they get warned,

 

I would think most Arty players have no idea how to mark where they are shooting...
And marking where you are shooting is pointless anyway - in arty you are aiming for where you think the enemy tank might be four seconds after you click your mouse...this may be nowhere near where you marked the ground a few seconds before that, and you can't just keep marking the ground every time you readjust your aim because an enemy tank has moved...
 


 



friedeggnchips #18 Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:46 PM

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View PostWilhelmII, on 17 May 2019 - 03:35 PM, said:

 

 

YOUR words "NO ONE LISTENS TO WARNINGS" YOUR WORDS and now you say " I never said that I ignore Arty warnings" please which one is it??

 

As it currently stands Arty can do just that!  fire on friendly targets without giving a warning and all that happens is that they pay for the damaged caused to the friendly, my way suggests they have no choice other than to give a warning or they get warned and so on, no one is getting salty I have not called you anything you did not call me first, I really don't care what happens mine was just a thought one way, as it is I give warnings every time and give people time to move to those that don't BOOOM !!! serves them right, they will not lay sole claim to any target, BOOOM !! again up to you if you stay there, while the target is there, then they are fair game to anyone that can get him.  END OF

 

WHY ARE WE USING CAPS? You need to calm down dude, i said most players dont listen to warnings. You have completely swayed the point of the discussion as well, we are talking about arty players firing at targets who are close to teammates, not arguing over who is in the right. Also your logic makes no sense. You said if the player is in the way of the arty shot then it is the players fault, so does that mean we should all camp behind arty? Damn maybe that is a good idea actually, turn every map into a prohorovka type camp fest and use the artillery as a meatshield :medal:
15:47 Added after 0 minutes

View PostSirebellus, on 17 May 2019 - 03:44 PM, said:

 

I would think most Arty players have no idea how to mark where they are shooting...
And marking where you are shooting is pointless anyway - in arty you are aiming for where you think the enemy tank might be four seconds after you click your mouse...this may be nowhere near where you marked the ground a few seconds before that, and you can't just keep marking the ground every time you readjust your aim because an enemy tank has moved...
 

 

Another good point, didnt think of that actually.



WilhelmII #19 Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:51 PM

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View PostRetro_Drops, on 17 May 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

 

So if you are face hugging an enemy to not give them a shot on your weak shots but arty decides he wants to shot them and marks the area you are meant to back off so you are exposed? i dont think so. arty has no rights to fire anywhere near a team player in any situation 

 

OK yes you are totally right, I can only base what I say on assuming people in the game would treat it as real when making their choices, when I am playing as Arty I base my target decisions on what I would do in real life, would I just go a head and bomb my own, just for the reason as I want that target? NO I would Not, If I see friendlies pinned down because of an enemy threat, YES I would as I would choose the target and give the warning of intention because that is my job to support where I can, I allow friendlies to move to safe out of rings then I fire not before, if their are a group of friendlies and none move back I will not fire, but they had better not moan about lack of Arty support, if the group move back but one stay in rings then Boom to the Fool, I am not in this game for Win this and that I don't give a damn about stats because to me they are meaningless I will grind at the pace I am able to if I don't perform "I mussy killy ally" then I am OK with that I play for the fun of it ,as everything else about it is just a game NO ONE REALLY DIE's  

Dorander #20 Posted 17 May 2019 - 04:58 PM

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View PostAP507b, on 17 May 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

Maybe if arty didn't have sniper like accuracy a player wouldn't be tempted to try such a shot? Way too accurate for my liking with way too smaller target circle. You being team killed by a clicker is just another symptom off all the problems present with the class.

 

I played a battle once on Lakeville where my one Wespe secured the valley against oncoming enemy tanks. Wound up getting mastery with a barely trained crew. Talk about an overpowered weapon.

 

If arty actually had high accuracy this scenario wouldn't be a problem, because you could aim the shot to hit the enemy and not risk the ally. Artillery is wildly inaccurate so that's not an option.

 

 

OP is right, it's a player decision to take risky shots. It's nothing to do with artillery's (lack of) accuracy. The leeway for TK damage on artillery is too high and it's a player's responsibility to try to be as careful as possible. That said, there are equally people who facehug opponents for no other reason than to deny artillery the ability to fire safely, just like people frequently get in each other's way (and guns) to get the last shots in on the remaining enemy at the end of a game. When people start playing like that getting accidental TK damage is entirely their own fault.






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