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Does anyone else find the 'Black Market' event ethically wrong?.


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Riggerby #1 Posted 27 May 2019 - 05:18 PM

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Ever since i seen this event announced, It just leaves such a sour taste in the mouth, I really don't understand it?, It literally just feels like a cash grab with unbalanced tanks as the lure.


I've seen alot of people speculate that this is Wargamings way of... ''culling'' credits and gold from the server to give more incentive to grind, thus play or pay more to replenish, But it's just the way theyre doing it.

 

I mean, Besides the fact the 59G price was literally sickening, The cost of 2 or 3 Triple A games, The 183.... It was literally removed from the tech tree as it was deemed unhealthy for the server... why sell it again ...? I don't care that it costs almost 4 times the original amount, why absolutely flood the server with a broken tank?.  Now the Pz2j. I personally obtained this tank years ago, and when its top tier, it is genuinely disgusting. Literally unkillable and if you load a fair bit of APCR. You're just invincible. WHY SELL IT ENMASSE TO THE SERVER!?. Low rank is literally destroyed now, 

 

Its genuinely going to be weeks until people get bored of playing these rare broken tanks they have spent fortunes on, You've literally crippled the state of gameplay for months just to make some money.

 

I swear to god, If E25 or Chrysler gets released.. ugh.. i don't even want to think about it... Please stop releasing broken tanks in this event. Its so so so so so so so unhealthy for the state of gameplay. I'm fed up of playing matches with 3 183's per team, 3 Caern AX's per team, And now low rank will just be a slew of immortal 2J's... ugh...

 

I really wouldn't care if this event was just with balanced premiums or obscure long removed tanks that were healthy in the game, But literally adding in tanks that were solely removed for being unbalanced to the quickest bidder is just awful. 


Edited by Riggerby, 27 May 2019 - 05:20 PM.


barison1 #2 Posted 27 May 2019 - 05:20 PM

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pz2j lost its OPness quite some tho, more and more high pen tanks got added in the years

 

 



pecopad #3 Posted 27 May 2019 - 05:21 PM

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Yes its unethical, the name should be a tell...

 

Idiotic idea



FrantisekBascovansky #4 Posted 27 May 2019 - 05:21 PM

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PZ II J ain't immortal at all. It's just a slow meatball for APCRs and HEATs.

Riggerby #5 Posted 27 May 2019 - 05:22 PM

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View Postbarison1, on 27 May 2019 - 05:20 PM, said:

pz2j lost its OPness quite some tho, more and more high pen tanks got added in the years

 

 

 

I agree its not OP in the uptier, As it literally cannot pen tanks like Hetzer which also in return just mince meat it. but, When she is top tier she is still absolutely dominant.
16:23 Added after 1 minute

View PostFrantisekBascovansky, on 27 May 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

PZ II J ain't immortal at all. It's just a slow meatball for APCRs and HEATs.

 

HEAT..... At tier 2-3......Not only do most tanks at that range fail to have gold ammo which can pen an angled 2J, You're not even taking into account the fact most players in that bracket are newbies who literally cannot afford to fire gold. They physically don't have the credits in their account. The moment you consider a tank to be balanced by merely reccomending people fire gold at it, You're literally admitting its OP to the poorer / f2p players. 

Edited by Riggerby, 27 May 2019 - 05:24 PM.


BlackBloodBandit #6 Posted 27 May 2019 - 05:27 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 27 May 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

Now the Pz2j. I personally obtained this tank years ago, and when its top tier, it is genuinely disgusting. Literally unkillable and if you load a fair bit of APCR. You're just invincible.

Quite ironic isn't it, that you bought it yourself as well, though it was years ago. Now you complain about the fact they sell it again. Yes I agree that it's disgusting they sell it, but doesn't it leave a sour taste in your mouth to talk about something like this, while you have it yourself? That's disgusting to me as well..

 

View PostRiggerby, on 27 May 2019 - 05:22 PM, said:

HEAT..... At tier 2-3......Not only do most tanks at that range fail to have gold ammo which can pen an angled 2J, You're not even taking into account the fact most players in that bracket are newbies who literally cannot afford to fire gold. They physically don't have the credits in their account. The moment you consider a tank to be balanced by merely reccomending people fire gold at it, You're literally admitting its OP to the poorer / f2p players. 

I've met enough newer players who spam gold already at tier 1, so don't get started about this..


Edited by BlackBloodBandit, 27 May 2019 - 05:29 PM.


Riggerby #7 Posted 27 May 2019 - 05:41 PM

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View PostBlackBloodBandit, on 27 May 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

Quite ironic isn't it, that you bought it yourself as well, though it was years ago. Now you complain about the fact they sell it again. Yes I agree that it's disgusting they sell it, but doesn't it leave a sour taste in your mouth to talk about something like this, while you have it yourself? That's disgusting to me as well..

 

I've met enough newer players who spam gold already at tier 1, so don't get started about this..

 

I have rarely played my 2J. In the years i have owned it i have 55 battles in it. I think i bought it around 2014ish, So what's that, 11 battles per year?. I do not enjoy playing it, It just feels like clubbing really. I purchased it more for the collectors element of owning it, as at the time it was literally beyond rare. 

 

Don't get me wrong, this post is not some type of ''I dont want anyone else to own the special tanks i own because i earned them long agoooooo and theyre special to me waa waa waa''. This is about not wanting broken tanks to be brought back, And the 2J is broken!. If they released an update tomorrow saying they would ban 2j from MM but still allow us to keep it in the carousel i'd be perfectly happy with that myself. 

 

What's an example.. uh.. Like, I own a Kv5 which is semi rare i guess, I wouldn't care if they released KV5 in this event because its not broken. I also own an E25 but i would care if that was released because it is broken.

 

I am not complaining about rare tanks being sold again and how it lessens their rare value, i literally just dont like broken tanks being played or sold, even the ones i own.



Balc0ra #8 Posted 27 May 2019 - 05:45 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 27 May 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:


I've seen alot of people speculate that this is Wargamings way of... ''culling'' credits and gold from the server to give more incentive to grind, thus play or pay more to replenish, But it's just the way theyre doing it.

 

 

I suspect it's more of a way to finance their other branches. As the last time they did something like this. It was to fund one of their recent games. As besides WOT, they have a fair few studios they bought over the years making games, and not making money off them yet, as they have nothing to sell yet. Tho in fairness I suspected nothing but gold deals. So surprised to see some tier 8 prems for silver too.

 

View PostRiggerby, on 27 May 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

I mean, Besides the fact the 59G price was literally sickening, The cost of 2 or 3 Triple A games, The 183.... It was literally removed from the tech tree as it was deemed unhealthy for the server... why sell it again ...? I don't care that it costs almost 4 times the original amount, why absolutely flood the server with a broken tank?.  Now the Pz2j. I personally obtained this tank years ago, and when its top tier, it is genuinely disgusting. Literally unkillable and if you load a fair bit of APCR. You're just invincible. WHY SELL IT ENMASSE TO THE SERVER!?. Low rank is literally destroyed now,

 

Keep in mind the 183 is a special tank. Not a premium. If the planned changes to the tier X TD's happens. He will be smacked just as hard on his AP alpha, not just the gold HESH like the other FV.  And the II J is not that good anymore. Meta has changed even on tier III. And most newer lights gun even can deal with it. As I did see a II J platoon just now. They were the first 3 to die. So I would not say invincible.

 

View PostRiggerby, on 27 May 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

I swear to god, If E25 or Chrysler gets released.. ugh.. i don't even want to think about it... Please stop releasing broken tanks in this event. Its so so so so so so so unhealthy for the state of gameplay. I'm fed up of playing matches with 3 183's per team, 3 Caern AX's per team, And now low rank will just be a slew of immortal 2J's... ugh...

 

Tbh I won't be surprised if the E25 is in there leaks aside not saying it. But will it make such an impact when you see 2-3 of them in each tier 7 game as is? They hardly sold 5000 of them the last time, and you did not even notice it. And the Chrysler? Suffers the same way the II J does. Can't even pen himself. Thus why you don't see too many of them. It's broken, but not that kind of broken. It's why most avoided it in the first place. And it's not like the few you see are dominating as is. It's why it's been in last place on every "what to sell next" poll when WG did those. I'm willing to bet that if it appears. It will struggle to sell like the Alpine Tiger.

 

And like when any new premium sold, good or bad. It will be like that for a day or two that it's tier MM has a few of them on each team. I'm sure it will die out in less than a week like always.



FrantisekBascovansky #9 Posted 27 May 2019 - 05:53 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 27 May 2019 - 05:22 PM, said:

 

 

HEAT..... At tier 2-3......Not only do most tanks at that range fail to have gold ammo which can pen an angled 2J, You're not even taking into account the fact most players in that bracket are newbies who literally cannot afford to fire gold. They physically don't have the credits in their account. The moment you consider a tank to be balanced by merely reccomending people fire gold at it, You're literally admitting its OP to the poorer / f2p players. 

 

First, I don't believe there are any new players to this game (not counting rerolls en masse).

Second, gold spam in lowtiers is already real thing. There's even more gold spam in tier 2 than in tier 3 imho (T2 or M2 Light platoons with full gold loadout says hello, all those PzIC, Pz 38t, Pz S35, T127 full gold platoons says hello). These tryhards are often spamming gold even on paper tanks they can easily pen with standard at a fraction of cost. But hey, if they can afford to lose 50k or more per lowtier battle, why not.

But, I agree Pz2J (and FCMpak) are OP vehicles in tier 3.



mortalsatsuma #10 Posted 27 May 2019 - 05:55 PM

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Pz II J hasn't been OP for years now. When I got mine it used to wreck face but it's been gathering dust now for years as there's so much at tier 3 than can kill it and if you get tier 4 mm, GG, you can't pen some tanks. 

Strizi #11 Posted 27 May 2019 - 06:09 PM

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They should do even more unethical things. Sell 907 and this chieftain monstrosity for 1 million and see the matchmaking burn :D:D

Steve8066 #12 Posted 27 May 2019 - 06:18 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 27 May 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

Ever since i seen this event announced, It just leaves such a sour taste in the mouth, I really don't understand it?, It literally just feels like a cash grab with unbalanced tanks as the lure.


I've seen alot of people speculate that this is Wargamings way of... ''culling'' credits and gold from the server to give more incentive to grind, thus play or pay more to replenish, But it's just the way theyre doing it.

 

I mean, Besides the fact the 59G price was literally sickening, The cost of 2 or 3 Triple A games, The 183.... It was literally removed from the tech tree as it was deemed unhealthy for the server... why sell it again ...? I don't care that it costs almost 4 times the original amount, why absolutely flood the server with a broken tank?.  Now the Pz2j. I personally obtained this tank years ago, and when its top tier, it is genuinely disgusting. Literally unkillable and if you load a fair bit of APCR. You're just invincible. WHY SELL IT ENMASSE TO THE SERVER!?. Low rank is literally destroyed now, 

 

Its genuinely going to be weeks until people get bored of playing these rare broken tanks they have spent fortunes on, You've literally crippled the state of gameplay for months just to make some money.

 

I swear to god, If E25 or Chrysler gets released.. ugh.. i don't even want to think about it... Please stop releasing broken tanks in this event. Its so so so so so so so unhealthy for the state of gameplay. I'm fed up of playing matches with 3 183's per team, 3 Caern AX's per team, And now low rank will just be a slew of immortal 2J's... ugh...

 

I really wouldn't care if this event was just with balanced premiums or obscure long removed tanks that were healthy in the game, But literally adding in tanks that were solely removed for being unbalanced to the quickest bidder is just awful. 

 

its a desperate attempt to gain cash.

Kartoshkaya #13 Posted 27 May 2019 - 06:25 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 27 May 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

Yes its unethical, the name should be a tell...

 

Idiotic idea

 

Triggered ?

Catn1p #14 Posted 27 May 2019 - 06:25 PM

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Yes, very unethical. It should be named Colored Market.

KanonenVogel19 #15 Posted 27 May 2019 - 06:36 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 27 May 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

The 183.... It was literally removed from the tech tree as it was deemed unhealthy for the server... why sell it again ...?

 

You're wrong. The Deathstar was not removed from the tech tree because it was considered unhealthy for the game, but rather because WG stumbled upon the idea of "branch consistency". They didn't like the fact that almost every tank in that branch was a turretless TD with frontal heavy armor and quickfiring low alpha gun, while the tier 10 was completely different compared to that. That's why they replaced it with the Badger that is much more consistent with the rest of the branch. Now I'm not defending this idea of branch consistency, I'm just telling you what their official explanation was.

 

The Deathstar and old Foch will propably be sold again once they announce the bonds shop.


Edited by KanonenVogel19, 27 May 2019 - 06:37 PM.


Dorander #16 Posted 27 May 2019 - 06:58 PM

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For it to be unethical, it has to be somehow morally wrong for these tanks to exist in an entertainment product that you participate in voluntarily, rather than merely being a bad business decision. So no, this is decidedly NOT unethical.

 

As for it being a potentially bad business decision, there's the question of whether it's bad for business for these tanks to be sold, or for these tanks to exist in the first place and be in the hands of the lucky few who got them. For them to be problematic, they have to be objectively overpowered. Are they?

 

The PzIIJ might have been, but that'd been accessible for a very long time to anyone willing to fork over a 100 euros. It's nothing to do with the black market. The FV is broken just like the current FV4005, not overpowered, it never has been. The Blackdog is a tier 8 premium light and just like most lights isn't likely to carry games on its own, unless you are one of those players who can make use of the high skill ceiling. It's not some noob-proof OP tank. What else got sold that's supposedly overpowerd? I know the Type 59 isn't, no matter what colour you paint it. The Caern AX was achievable through a marathon and is a very solid tank....... if it's allowed to hulldown all game. That's about it. It's not even rare, it was offered plenty before this.

 

Honestly this Black Market is pretty not noteworthy. Good if you can grab something you wanted if you have excess currency.



vixu #17 Posted 27 May 2019 - 07:03 PM

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well... since players are ready to pay 15k gold for tier 3 tank.... this event seem to be hitting the mark.

lonigus #18 Posted 27 May 2019 - 07:40 PM

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Not a single tank sold was OP in the slightest. Pz2j lost its OPness long time ago, FV183 is a joke now in the current meta and other tanks were not even that rare at all with the exception of the golden type, but if anyone wants to spend 100 Euro for a golden ugly af skin then he can be my guest. 1000 more types wont do any difference.

HugSeal #19 Posted 27 May 2019 - 07:46 PM

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View PostRiggerby, on 27 May 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

I mean, Besides the fact the 59G price was literally sickening, The cost of 2 or 3 Triple A games, The 183.... It was literally removed from the tech tree as it was deemed unhealthy for the server... why sell it again ...? I don't care that it costs almost 4 times the original amount, why absolutely flood the server with a broken tank?.  Now the Pz2j. I personally obtained this tank years ago, and when its top tier, it is genuinely disgusting. Literally unkillable and if you load a fair bit of APCR. You're just invincible. WHY SELL IT ENMASSE TO THE SERVER!?. Low rank is literally destroyed now, 

 

Its genuinely going to be weeks until people get bored of playing these rare broken tanks they have spent fortunes on, You've literally crippled the state of gameplay for months just to make some money.

 

I swear to god, If E25 or Chrysler gets released.. ugh.. i don't even want to think about it... Please stop releasing broken tanks in this event. Its so so so so so so so unhealthy for the state of gameplay. I'm fed up of playing matches with 3 183's per team, 3 Caern AX's per team, And now low rank will just be a slew of immortal 2J's... ugh...

 

I really wouldn't care if this event was just with balanced premiums or obscure long removed tanks that were healthy in the game, But literally adding in tanks that were solely removed for being unbalanced to the quickest bidder is just awful. 

 

I don't see a problem with the type 59 price, not sickened at all. It is a silly pompous skin and if people feel they can pay that money for a flashy somewhat vulgar skin then eh, let them.

 

How many 183's were sold? Did they really flood the server with them? Yeah it was removed and selling it again is questionable but we already have the fv4005 that anyone can get.

 

The pz2j is very far from literally unkillable. The armour is still good and there are still tank that simply cannot pen it. 

 

But look at this list:

https://tanks.gg/list/stats/pen?ti=3&sh=standard

There are a tonne of tanks with pen enough to contest the pz2j nowadays and that armour is the only thing it has going for it.

 

tl;dr

The pz2j is a ghost of its former brokenness and it isn't even close to be an unkillable beast with all the high pen guns driving around.



Gruff_ #20 Posted 27 May 2019 - 08:03 PM

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Events like this bring out the sort of human behaviour that is generally unhealthy to oneself and ones community.




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