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Why was the WT Auf E100 considered OP?

WT Auf E100 WTE100 WTF100 Foch B WTE100 OP

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DarkAngel666nl #1 Posted 28 May 2019 - 06:00 AM

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Since the start of the Black Market, there have been rumors about the WT E100 making a reappearance, although I do take these with a grain of salt, as it is unlikely that the tank will be reintroduced. If they would reintroduce it, I would almost certainly try to get my hands on it, but I don't think WG would. Anyways, I have always wondered what made the WT E100 so OP in the eyes of many players, at least, in such a way that it couldn't be rebalanced?

To clarify my point, if the time it had between shots was to fast, why not make it a little slower (for example, from 2 to 3 seconds, I can't remember what it was, since I never had one), only give it 4 shots, only give it the option for the 128mm gun and not the 150mm, etc etc. Also, its turret was a major weak point that could easily be penetrated by tier 8 HE and which would be devastated by the deathstar/shitbarn using HESH.

A second argument could be made about the Foch B, which replaced the Foch 155, and that thing has a 6 round drum, with 400 alpha, IIRC, more armour, better mobility, better speed and better camo-rating. Why is the Foch B not regarded the same, when compared to the WT. I would argue that the WT would at least be playable, with a few tweaks, and not be more OP than the Foch B.

Suurpolskija #2 Posted 28 May 2019 - 06:07 AM

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It wasn't overpowered as much as broken or situational. It could clip 2x tier x tanks in it's prime with one clip. 

 

There's a take from "a professional streamer and a youtuber" 

 

 


Edited by Suurpolskija, 28 May 2019 - 01:53 PM.


HugSeal #3 Posted 28 May 2019 - 06:11 AM

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Only giving it the 128mm gun wouldn't help since that gun was the broken part with it. You had a 6 shot 590 alpha gun with awesome gun handling. That is a lot of pain to throw out.

 

And nerfing it wouldn't help the game much. You either have a silly paper tank with insane damage as its one redeeming factor or you have a silly glass cannony paper tank that doesn't even have that redeeming quality making it pretty much useless.

 

It will be broken either way, the only thing that would change is if it's op or useless.



superdashi #4 Posted 28 May 2019 - 06:20 AM

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would be great to have that back in the game tbh

TankkiPoju #5 Posted 28 May 2019 - 06:32 AM

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View PostSuurpolskija, on 28 May 2019 - 06:07 AM, said:

It could clip 2x tier x tanks in it's prime with one clip. 

 

Pretty sure you couldn't.

DarkAngel666nl #6 Posted 28 May 2019 - 06:55 AM

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View PostSuurpolskija, on 28 May 2019 - 05:07 AM, said:

It wasn't overpowered as much as broken or situational. It could clip 2x tier x tanks in it's prime with one clip. 

 

There's a take from "a professional streamer and a youtuber" 

 

 

 

I have seen QBs videos about it, but even with 6 shots, I can't remember it being strong enough to clip 2 full health tier 10s.

 

View PostHugSeal, on 28 May 2019 - 05:11 AM, said:

Only giving it the 128mm gun wouldn't help since that gun was the broken part with it. You had a 6 shot 590 alpha gun with awesome gun handling. That is a lot of pain to throw out.

 

And nerfing it wouldn't help the game much. You either have a silly paper tank with insane damage as its one redeeming factor or you have a silly glass cannony paper tank that doesn't even have that redeeming quality making it pretty much useless.

 

It will be broken either way, the only thing that would change is if it's op or useless.

 

The 128mm gun has the 560 alpha gun, yes, but that is why I said, bring down the amount of shots, give it 4, not 6 (also, when they nerfed it, they brought the clip for the 128mm down to 5 shot, iirc). Another option could be, to give it 490 alpha, with 5 shots, that amounts to 2450 average clip damage. Now Compare that to the Foch B's 2400 average clip damage. I would not say that the WT is more OP than the Foch and that things is still in the game, although, in my opinion much more annoying to deal with (You need to aim at weakspots from the front, has similar burst damage, but a 36 second reload, compared to the 56 seconds on the Waffle, Although it has weakspots, they aren't as big as the circus tent on the back of the Waffle and it get's around better). If the Foch isn't considered OP or Broken, why should the Waffle be?


Edited by DarkAngel666nl, 28 May 2019 - 07:01 AM.


fwhaatpiraat #7 Posted 28 May 2019 - 07:04 AM

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It had 420 base view range. So with coated optics and crew skills and maybe even food it had a crap ton of view range, while moving. If something shot at it, it could probably spot it and kill it. Ofcourse not when bushes are in play but if you were semi-capable you could abuse this feature, especially in the end-game.

 

It had a turret. So peaking around corners can be done really quickly. To do the same in an Object 263, 268 or Foch 155 took much longer, giving the enemy time to shoot and fall back. This feature in combination with the next feature proably made it that OP.

 

The gun. It had 6 shells in the clip, with 2s reload between shells. So that is 6x560=3360 damage in 10 seconds. Sturdy vehicles like the Maus or E100 could be deleted from full hp in 10 seconds. Really broken. It also had 352 (iirc) APCR shells. It had 0.29 accuracy. It had really good gun handling/aim time, although I don't remember the bloom values. The aim time was 1.5 seconds. That gun handling made it possible to shoot continuously without losing accuracy or to shoot really quickly after driving.

 

 

Compared with those monstrosity, the Foch B has a far worse performing gun: way worse alpha and clip potential (400 vs 560, 2400 vs 3360), worse penetration (257 vs 276, 325 vs 352), worse aim time (2.21), worse accuracy (0.33 vs 0.29) and probably worse bloom values, although I don't know for sure. Add to that the lack of a turret, which is a MASSIVE difference. Not just in cities, but also when runnning away or so, you can't shoot back. You are relocating and something gets spotted on your flank? In the WT, you just stopped and starting shooting, in the foch you stop and turn, then you have to aim and then you can start shooting your worse gun. If you want to continue driving, you have to turn first, costing a lot of (valuable) time.

 

And last but not least, the Foch B exists right now in the game. The WT auf E100 got introduced to the game at the end of 2013, five and a half years ago! Back then the IS-7's mobility was truly horrendous, and so was it's gun handling. Can hardly be compared with the current tank, so much worse it was. It also had less hp, just 2150. Back then the E-100 was considered stong, the 113 was a potato tank and nobody had ever heard of the Object 260, 277, 907, 430U, 268v4, WZ-111-5a. Back then the T110E5 was considered a balanced, all round tank, despite the fact it had a weak cupola AND a much weaker lower glaces plate. The FV215b heavy tank was seen as a good tank and the FV4202 also was in game. No one had ever heard of the Super Conqueror or imagined the Chieftain-T95 being in the game. That was the time that the WT was in the game, and I assume tells you the answer to your question, OP.



HugSeal #8 Posted 28 May 2019 - 07:05 AM

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View PostDarkAngel666nl, on 28 May 2019 - 06:55 AM, said:

The 128mm gun had 490 alpha, not the 560 the Jagdtiger has. And the amount of shots is why I said, give it 4, not 6 (also, when they nerfed it, they brought the clip for the 128mm down to 5 shot, iirc). Even if it has 5 shots at 490, that amounts to 2450 average clip damage. Now Compare that to the Foch B's 2400 average clip damage, which has higher penetration, by 11mm. I would not say that the WT is more OP than the Foch and that things is still in the game, although, in my opinion much more annoying to deal with (You need to aim at weakspots from the front, has similar burst damage, but a 36 second reload, compared to the 56 seconds on the Waffle, Although it has weakspots, they aren't as big as the circus tent on the back of the Waffle and it get's around better). If the Foch isn't considered OP or Broken, why should the Waffle be?

 

Yeah, that wa a typo on my part. 490, not 590.

 

Comparing it to the foch falls on the fact that a turret is such a huge boon for a tank. pretty much any tank gets a LOT better if you slap a turret on it. The waffle also had the best accuracy in the game which does a lot to boost actual penchance.

 

And as I said: sure, you ould reduce the mag to 4 shots, but then we would probably had a mediocre broken tank that could pop up and clip tier 8's in 6 seconds and then hide for a reload ala the two 183mm brits.

 

The waffle was always a big mememachine, hope you dont get artied and hope you get to clip someone before they react.



DarkAngel666nl #9 Posted 28 May 2019 - 07:16 AM

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View PostHugSeal, on 28 May 2019 - 06:05 AM, said:

 

Yeah, that wa a typo on my part. 490, not 590.

 

Comparing it to the foch falls on the fact that a turret is such a huge boon for a tank. pretty much any tank gets a LOT better if you slap a turret on it. The waffle also had the best accuracy in the game which does a lot to boost actual penchance.

 

And as I said: sure, you ould reduce the mag to 4 shots, but then we would probably had a mediocre broken tank that could pop up and clip tier 8's in 6 seconds and then hide for a reload ala the two 183mm brits.

 

The waffle was always a big mememachine, hope you dont get artied and hope you get to clip someone before they react.

 

I was wrong too, in QBs video, it showed that it has 560 with 5 shots. And sure the Turret will add a lot of benefits, but it was also the weakest part of the tank. I will go back to comparing it to the Foch, why not change the gun to have 490 alpha with 5 shots (2450 clip potential) with 246 penetration (so the Maus gun), which would be offset by the 2400 clip potential and 257 penetration of the Foch B. Also, decrease the intra-clip reload to 2.5s, instead of 2s and the aimtime to 2 seconds, which makes it a little less strong when it comes to clipping other tanks. It is still less mobile than other TDs, has a massive paper turret, but isn't as OP as the first or second iteration of the vehicle, but more on par with the Foch B.

gopez #10 Posted 28 May 2019 - 07:17 AM

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accuracy was another problem. I remember myself clipping a bc-25t cuppola, just the cuppola in test from 200m+.

to be honest never had it in regular server.

 


Edited by gopez, 28 May 2019 - 07:17 AM.


Balc0ra #11 Posted 28 May 2019 - 07:21 AM

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Burst damage. It could clip a Maus with both guns. They did nerf the 12.5 cm down to 5 rounds iirc with the same 55 sec reload. But then most used the faster reloading 15cm instead of running full gold. It only had 4 rounds. But with 750 alpha it did not care. As that's 3000 burst damage exactly. And when you can clip a Maus in less than 10 seconds.

 

Tho besides the gun and the view range "pre nerf TD camo and view range". It was terrible at everything else. It was huge, had no armor and terrible camo for a TD even then. As if your gunner did sneeze on an open map. You suddenly got hit by 15 HE shells. But if you were allowed to stay hidden at the back in a tier X game? Then you could demotivate most to try and push up.

 

View PostDarkAngel666nl, on 28 May 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

To clarify my point, if the time it had between shots was to fast, why not make it a little slower (for example, from 2 to 3 seconds, I can't remember what it was, since I never had one), only give it 4 shots, only give it the option for the 128mm gun and not the 150mm, etc etc. Also, its turret was a major weak point that could easily be penetrated by tier 8 HE and which would be devastated by the deathstar/shitbarn using HESH.

 

They did test with giving it more time between shots etc on super test. But they were not happy with anything. So in the end, they removed it. Foch 155 has 5 seconds between each of his 3 shots. So he takes a bit longer to get his clip out. But he doesn't have a massive profile and paper armor everyone can HE pen. So he can take his time with each shot. Balancing that around the WT with the massive size and no armor I suspect did not work the same way.

 

 Tho this comes to mind. He ran full HE on that clip.

Spoiler

 

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 28 May 2019 - 07:24 AM.


tajj7 #12 Posted 28 May 2019 - 07:29 AM

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I've seen quite a few people who think it wouldn't be OP in the current meta, but I think they are forgetting how stupidly strong some of the bushes are, even with its terrible camo there are loads of spot where it would be able to ambush people and wreck them.

 

I think if it came back with its old stats, in the current campy meta it would be OP again, not just broken. The gun was just not balanced and there was no real way to balance it.

 

The Grille 15 is a much better addition to the game, they just need to buff it a little IMO. Like give it a full turret and less punishing gun handling. 



DarkAngel666nl #13 Posted 28 May 2019 - 07:31 AM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 28 May 2019 - 06:04 AM, said:

It had 420 base view range. So with coated optics and crew skills and maybe even food it had a crap ton of view range, while moving. If something shot at it, it could probably spot it and kill it. Ofcourse not when bushes are in play but if you were semi-capable you could abuse this feature, especially in the end-game.

 

It had a turret. So peaking around corners can be done really quickly. To do the same in an Object 263, 268 or Foch 155 took much longer, giving the enemy time to shoot and fall back. This feature in combination with the next feature proably made it that OP.

 

The gun. It had 6 shells in the clip, with 2s reload between shells. So that is 6x560=3360 damage in 10 seconds. Sturdy vehicles like the Maus or E100 could be deleted from full hp in 10 seconds. Really broken. It also had 352 (iirc) APCR shells. It had 0.29 accuracy. It had really good gun handling/aim time, although I don't remember the bloom values. The aim time was 1.5 seconds. That gun handling made it possible to shoot continuously without losing accuracy or to shoot really quickly after driving.

 

 

Compared with those monstrosity, the Foch B has a far worse performing gun: way worse alpha and clip potential (400 vs 560, 2400 vs 3360), worse penetration (257 vs 276, 325 vs 352), worse aim time (2.21), worse accuracy (0.33 vs 0.29) and probably worse bloom values, although I don't know for sure. Add to that the lack of a turret, which is a MASSIVE difference. Not just in cities, but also when runnning away or so, you can't shoot back. You are relocating and something gets spotted on your flank? In the WT, you just stopped and starting shooting, in the foch you stop and turn, then you have to aim and then you can start shooting your worse gun. If you want to continue driving, you have to turn first, costing a lot of (valuable) time.

 

And last but not least, the Foch B exists right now in the game. The WT auf E100 got introduced to the game at the end of 2013, five and a half years ago! Back then the IS-7's mobility was truly horrendous, and so was it's gun handling. Can hardly be compared with the current tank, so much worse it was. It also had less hp, just 2150. Back then the E-100 was considered stong, the 113 was a potato tank and nobody had ever heard of the Object 260, 277, 907, 430U, 268v4, WZ-111-5a. Back then the T110E5 was considered a balanced, all round tank, despite the fact it had a weak cupola AND a much weaker lower glaces plate. The FV215b heavy tank was seen as a good tank and the FV4202 also was in game. No one had ever heard of the Super Conqueror or imagined the Chieftain-T95 being in the game. That was the time that the WT was in the game, and I assume tells you the answer to your question, OP.

 

No tank, besides lights should have 420 meters of view range, so that can easily be nerfed to 390. Still, if you use the right skills and equipment, you will be able to get a super view range, but not as OP as with 420m.

It has a turret, yes, but only -5 degrees of depression. and the forehead of the turret was so large, that everbody could easily snipe it, if it tried to crest a ridge. Other than that, you are saying that tanks like the T57, Kranvagen and AMX 50B have the same advantage, only with fewer shots.

Your next point is kind of old. It had 6 shots with 560 alpha in its first installment. When it was removed, it only had 5 shots at 560, and I would not be against it, if they would bring it back with 5 shots at 490. Even the intraclip reload can be altered a little. Make it 2.5 or even 3 seconds for a 5 round clip. So it would be 8 seconds for 2450 damage or 12 seconds for 2450 damage. The AMX 50 Foch B does about the same in 10 seconds with 6 shots. And when you change the intraclip reload, you can also change it's aimtime to 2 seconds (still fast enough for it to fully aim between shots, but slower when you need to re-engage a target or need to aim after moving). If you would replace the Jagdtiger gun for the Maus Gun, you would also lose penetration (560 with 276 to 490 with 246), which would offset the higher damage output for lower penetration compared to the Foch B. And sure, the turret has some advantages when relocating, but again, at only 20mm thick at its thickest, it is also the major downside of the vehicle.

For your last point, I would argue that the WT E100 would actually be a decent tank at this moment, considering all the OP vehicles we see now, especially if it would be changed as I outlined (not as OP as it's first iteration, but still usable and competitive).
06:36 Added after 4 minutes

View Posttajj7, on 28 May 2019 - 06:29 AM, said:

I've seen quite a few people who think it wouldn't be OP in the current meta, but I think they are forgetting how stupidly strong some of the bushes are, even with its terrible camo there are loads of spot where it would be able to ambush people and wreck them.

 

I think if it came back with its old stats, in the current campy meta it would be OP again, not just broken. The gun was just not balanced and there was no real way to balance it.

 

The Grille 15 is a much better addition to the game, they just need to buff it a little IMO. Like give it a full turret and less punishing gun handling. 

 

So, if ambushing people is the problem, surely the Foch B must be broken too? I mean, 2400 damage is nothing to scuff at and only the strongest tier 10 heavies can take a clip of that and not die.

tajj7 #14 Posted 28 May 2019 - 07:56 AM

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View PostDarkAngel666nl, on 28 May 2019 - 06:31 AM, said:

 

No tank, besides lights should have 420 meters of view range, so that can easily be nerfed to 390. Still, if you use the right skills and equipment, you will be able to get a super view range, but not as OP as with 420m.

It has a turret, yes, but only -5 degrees of depression. and the forehead of the turret was so large, that everbody could easily snipe it, if it tried to crest a ridge. Other than that, you are saying that tanks like the T57, Kranvagen and AMX 50B have the same advantage, only with fewer shots.

Your next point is kind of old. It had 6 shots with 560 alpha in its first installment. When it was removed, it only had 5 shots at 560, and I would not be against it, if they would bring it back with 5 shots at 490. Even the intraclip reload can be altered a little. Make it 2.5 or even 3 seconds for a 5 round clip. So it would be 8 seconds for 2450 damage or 12 seconds for 2450 damage. The AMX 50 Foch B does about the same in 10 seconds with 6 shots. And when you change the intraclip reload, you can also change it's aimtime to 2 seconds (still fast enough for it to fully aim between shots, but slower when you need to re-engage a target or need to aim after moving). If you would replace the Jagdtiger gun for the Maus Gun, you would also lose penetration (560 with 276 to 490 with 246), which would offset the higher damage output for lower penetration compared to the Foch B. And sure, the turret has some advantages when relocating, but again, at only 20mm thick at its thickest, it is also the major downside of the vehicle.

For your last point, I would argue that the WT E100 would actually be a decent tank at this moment, considering all the OP vehicles we see now, especially if it would be changed as I outlined (not as OP as it's first iteration, but still usable and competitive).
06:36 Added after 4 minutes

 

So, if ambushing people is the problem, surely the Foch B must be broken too? I mean, 2400 damage is nothing to scuff at and only the strongest tier 10 heavies can take a clip of that and not die.

 

Not really, less alpha, less pen, worse gun handling, less accurate and crucially no turret.  Foch B is awkward, has poor gun arc, and only basically has the 50b's gun, so whilst its clip is 2400, it takes 10s to do its full clip, whereas a Walffle E100 could do 1100 in just 2s and that is already 50% plus of the HP of most tier 10 tanks. Foch B has only done 800 in that time, you have a better chance of bouncing some of those shots because of the pen/accuracy and if you move then the Foch's bloom is terrible and it'll have re-aim to have any chance of hitting the next shots, by which time most targets are back in cover.

 

Autoloaders work on being able to dish their burst damage quickly and reliably against targets before they can get back into cover, Waffle E100 did that so much better than the Foch B can. 

 

 

 

 

 



DarkAngel666nl #15 Posted 28 May 2019 - 08:08 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 28 May 2019 - 06:56 AM, said:

 

Not really, less alpha, less pen, worse gun handling, less accurate and crucially no turret.  Foch B is awkward, has poor gun arc, and only basically has the 50b's gun, so whilst its clip is 2400, it takes 10s to do its full clip, whereas a Walffle E100 could do 1100 in just 2s and that is already 50% plus of the HP of most tier 10 tanks. Foch B has only done 800 in that time, you have a better chance of bouncing some of those shots because of the pen/accuracy and if you move then the Foch's bloom is terrible and it'll have re-aim to have any chance of hitting the next shots, by which time most targets are back in cover.

 

Autoloaders work on being able to dish their burst damage quickly and reliably against targets before they can get back into cover, Waffle E100 did that so much better than the Foch B can. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is why I suggest either giving it a 4 clip autoloader with the Jagdtiger gun, or a 5 clip with the Maus Gun. Then the clip potential will be either 2240 (jagdtiger gun) or 2450 (Maus gun), which is pretty in line with the Foch B. I am not suggesting to bring the Waffle back how it was, but that, in my opinion, if they would tweak it (less view range, other set up of gun, longer intraclip reload with potentially a shorter overall reload (2.5 to 3 seconds intraclip and 45 seconds overall, maybe), maybe some tweaks to gun handling) it could actually fit, especially when you consider tanks like the Obj 430U, Obj 268 V4 and several others have been introduced.

fwhaatpiraat #16 Posted 28 May 2019 - 08:28 AM

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View PostDarkAngel666nl, on 28 May 2019 - 07:31 AM, said:

 

No tank, besides lights should have 420 meters of view range, so that can easily be nerfed to 390. Still, if you use the right skills and equipment, you will be able to get a super view range, but not as OP as with 420m.

It has a turret, yes, but only -5 degrees of depression. and the forehead of the turret was so large, that everbody could easily snipe it, if it tried to crest a ridge. Other than that, you are saying that tanks like the T57, Kranvagen and AMX 50B have the same advantage, only with fewer shots.

You and many more people assume it is easy to kill a WT auf E100, which is correct, but based on a potato playing the tank. Once a capable player is driving the tank, it won't be driving through open fields anymore. On city maps (even on Live Oaks, Lakeville and such maps) it just comes around a corner and screws you over. And yes, ofcourse tanks like the 50B and T57 heavy have the advantage of having the turret. It creates much more flexibility I can hardly describe it. It would be interesting to see how many times I am shooting targets that are right in front of me, compared to shooting at targets on the right or left of me or even behind me. In many (if not most) cases it is probably best to have the target at 45 degrees, because of moving back into cover again. Tank destroyers with limited arc are in 9 out of 10 moments clumsier than turreted vehicles, resulting in taking damage, getting detracked, missed opportunities and so on. Difference like day and night.

 

I have played a few battles with the WT auf pz IV, albeit not on my account. Just because it has a turret, I could 'amush' people next to a corner and immediately drive into safety after dealing 560 damage. Also, it is easily possible to peak around a corner, shoot and fall back in less than a second. If I wanted to do that in an Object 704 (which I do have played on my own account), it takes MUCH more time and is less reliable in doing damage that way. The tier x WT could also poke around a corner like that, it is such a strong feature, how can you not see that?


Your next point is kind of old. It had 6 shots with 560 alpha in its first installment. When it was removed, it only had 5 shots at 560, and I would not be against it, if they would bring it back with 5 shots at 490. Even the intraclip reload can be altered a little. Make it 2.5 or even 3 seconds for a 5 round clip. So it would be 8 seconds for 2450 damage or 12 seconds for 2450 damage. The AMX 50 Foch B does about the same in 10 seconds with 6 shots. And when you change the intraclip reload, you can also change it's aimtime to 2 seconds (still fast enough for it to fully aim between shots, but slower when you need to re-engage a target or need to aim after moving). If you would replace the Jagdtiger gun for the Maus Gun, you would also lose penetration (560 with 276 to 490 with 246), which would offset the higher damage output for lower penetration compared to the Foch B. And sure, the turret has some advantages when relocating, but again, at only 20mm thick at its thickest, it is also the major downside of the vehicle.

It always had the insane 560 alpha - 276/352 penetration gun, so that's why I based my answer on that. It wouldn't even matter that much if it had 'only' 5 shells. It would still have an amazing gun, with 40% higher dpm (during shooting) than a T57 heavy or TVP 50/51, that is insane.

For your last point, I would argue that the WT E100 would actually be a decent tank at this moment, considering all the OP vehicles we see now, especially if it would be changed as I outlined (not as OP as it's first iteration, but still usable and competitive).

It would still be really broken, it can't compete at all with all the strong hull down tanks from now, so on maps like Prokhorovka and Malinovka it will be camping. In CQC combat it would still be extremely (gamebreakingly) strong.

Well, you asked why the WT auf E100 was considered OP, and I answered it quite well imo.

 

 

 

View PostDarkAngel666nl, on 28 May 2019 - 07:31 AM, said:

So, if ambushing people is the problem, surely the Foch B must be broken too? I mean, 2400 damage is nothing to scuff at and only the strongest tier 10 heavies can take a clip of that and not die.

Again, moving into a bush, shooting and retreating is so much easier in a turret vehicle than in a non-turreted vehicle.

 

Honestly, not wanting to insult you, but it seems like you don't really understand how to make your gun work effectively in a battle. Ofcourse you can sit in the back (not saying you are doing that) and farm easy damage once the important flank (and the battle) is lost. No problem, but to carry a game your positioning and timing is really, really important. The clumsyness of certain tank destroyers make it impossible to play on certain positions, making the vehicles next to useless. Once the big boys like Chieftain-t95, Russian heavy tanks or other tanks like that have won the game, it is time to farm the TDs. This happens in most of the games I am in.


Edited by fwhaatpiraat, 28 May 2019 - 08:31 AM.


white66666 #17 Posted 28 May 2019 - 08:34 AM

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If it would be a Russian tank... it would still be in the game (maybe even buffed) :popcorn:

tajj7 #18 Posted 28 May 2019 - 08:42 AM

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View PostDarkAngel666nl, on 28 May 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:

 

That is why I suggest either giving it a 4 clip autoloader with the Jagdtiger gun, or a 5 clip with the Maus Gun. Then the clip potential will be either 2240 (jagdtiger gun) or 2450 (Maus gun), which is pretty in line with the Foch B. I am not suggesting to bring the Waffle back how it was, but that, in my opinion, if they would tweak it (less view range, other set up of gun, longer intraclip reload with potentially a shorter overall reload (2.5 to 3 seconds intraclip and 45 seconds overall, maybe), maybe some tweaks to gun handling) it could actually fit, especially when you consider tanks like the Obj 430U, Obj 268 V4 and several others have been introduced.

 

1. Basically what Fwhaat said, you are under playing the importance and flexibility of a turret on a TD.

 

2. The clip potential is less the issue its more that its a high pen, high alpha, fast firing autoloader, pretty much all the other autoloaders are smaller alpha, like 320, 390, 400 and have medium/heavy pen, not TD pen. Or they are the Foch 155 which has 5s between each shot and no turret.

 

3. Just because the 430U and Bobject exist it doesn't mean we should bring in other tanks that are not well balanced to 'out break' them, its not like every Waffle would just be fighting 430Us, you just make the game worse for all the people driving E5s and E50Ms etc. Tier 10 balance is not great as it is, we've finally had the Type 5 and Fv4005, two of the more broken tanks on tier 10 that ruined the meta, rebalanced (not brilliantly but certainly enough so there are less of them about and they are far less effective) adding the Waffle E100 back in some form would just be silly.  Tanks like the 430U just need nerfing, simple as that, tier 10 powercreep needs toning down, not more unbalanced tanks to the mix. 

 

Even with 490 alpha the tank would IMO be too hard to balance. If it had low pen like the Maus, people would just spam APCR

 

 

I just dont see any need or good reason for it to come back, it was removed because WG simply couldn't balance it well, and not much as changed, the Grille 15 is a much more health tank for the game and much easier to balance, it just needs as it said a few buffs to make it competitive again. 

 



pallie_the_artillerist #19 Posted 28 May 2019 - 08:57 AM

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It made games boring as hell because noone was willing to move for being at risk of being dead 6 seconds later. Just like 183 and 4005 can deny huge areas of a map really.

Laatikkomafia #20 Posted 28 May 2019 - 09:08 AM

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Why?

 

 

For once WG knew they had Kappa'd up and actually did something.


Edited by Laatikkomafia, 28 May 2019 - 09:13 AM.





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