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Did WG mentioned that they will remove penalty for retraining crew?


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dzonis2606 #1 Posted 28 May 2019 - 02:48 PM

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As much as I can remember, WG mentioned that they will remove penalty for retraining crew when moving to a higher tier tank within tree line.

 

Anyone remembers this ?



Dorander #2 Posted 28 May 2019 - 02:50 PM

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I vaguely remember something about the crew not losing the skills of a tank they've formerly been trained for, but haven't heard anything tangible recently.

dzonis2606 #3 Posted 28 May 2019 - 03:28 PM

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View PostDorander, on 28 May 2019 - 02:50 PM, said:

I vaguely remember something about the crew not losing the skills of a tank they've formerly been trained for, but haven't heard anything tangible recently.

That might be the one... would be nice...



jack_timber #4 Posted 28 May 2019 - 03:37 PM

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View Postdzonis2606, on 28 May 2019 - 02:28 PM, said:

That might be the one... would be nice...

 

Yes it would be nice rather than crew having a bout of amnesia every time you move them...

Kozzy #5 Posted 28 May 2019 - 03:40 PM

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If I remember it correctly it was a video, possibly a developer diary, where one of the dudes chatting said something like "we understand that players find it frustrating that IS7 crew forgets how to drive an IS3" or something.  Not sure what they can do as a better system though, especially as they are out to make money...

PowJay #6 Posted 28 May 2019 - 04:05 PM

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The problem with letting crews remember previous vehicles without penalty is two-fold for WG. 1. No need to buy crew training (to drop back down the tiers). 2. No real need for Premium tanks for this reason.

 

It could cost WG a fortune, all over a relatively small player frustration.


I believe that there is some (loose) basis in real life in this matter. I understand that as a pilot, you are only allowed to be "current" on a limited number of aircraft. I guess that if you want to swap an aircraft that you are qualified to fly, then you do a refresher and lose one of those that you are current on.

 

Might I suggest that WG offer a "refresher" course for experienced crew. 100 Gold to retrain 100% on a tank that they have already used in the past, or 20,000 credits to return to the previous level of qualification on that tank (if it was less than 100%), as examples.


Edited by PowJay, 28 May 2019 - 04:09 PM.


pecopad #7 Posted 28 May 2019 - 04:25 PM

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View PostPowJay, on 28 May 2019 - 04:05 PM, said:

The problem with letting crews remember previous vehicles without penalty is two-fold for WG. 1. No need to buy crew training (to drop back down the tiers). 2. No real need for Premium tanks for this reason.

 

It could cost WG a fortune, all over a relatively small player frustration.


I believe that there is some (loose) basis in real life in this matter. I understand that as a pilot, you are only allowed to be "current" on a limited number of aircraft. I guess that if you want to swap an aircraft that you are qualified to fly, then you do a refresher and lose one of those that you are current on.

 

Might I suggest that WG offer a "refresher" course for experienced crew. 100 Gold to retrain 100% on a tank that they have already used in the past, or 20,000 credits to return to the previous level of qualification on that tank (if it was less than 100%), as examples.

 

Crews should retain the tank training, so if you move crews to a new tank you would still have a 20% penalty, but once its trained on that tank, no penalty should apply, or maybe a cool off of 5 games, so people don't move around crews like equipment and cammo.

PowJay #8 Posted 28 May 2019 - 04:30 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 28 May 2019 - 03:25 PM, said:

 

Crews should retain the tank training, so if you move crews to a new tank you would still have a 20% penalty, but once its trained on that tank, no penalty should apply, or maybe a cool off of 5 games, so people don't move around crews like equipment and cammo.

 

But WG will NOT implement that because it will cost them. They might, but surely it's a great source of income in Gold.

 

If they offered refresher for 100 Gold, then players might be more inclined to spend that, rather than a quantity of credits for 90% retraining. That is the point.



pecopad #9 Posted 28 May 2019 - 04:32 PM

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View PostPowJay, on 28 May 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:

 

But WG will NOT implement that because it will cost them. They might, but surely it's a great source of income in Gold.

 

If they offered refresher for 100 Gold, then players might be more inclined to spend that, rather than a quantity of credits for 90% retraining. That is the point.

 

Maybe make it a premium account perk.. 

Rimtu #10 Posted 28 May 2019 - 04:40 PM

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It would be nice if you could train crew for new vehicle but they don't forget the vehicle they drove before that...

So you could have crew member trained in let's say 5-6 tanks... but not all

Bordhaw #11 Posted 28 May 2019 - 06:34 PM

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View Postdzonis2606, on 28 May 2019 - 01:48 PM, said:

As much as I can remember, WG mentioned that they will remove penalty for retraining crew when moving to a higher tier tank within tree line.

 

Anyone remembers this ?

 

No, but in the next patch you can spend 2 million credits and increase crew skills by 150% with Crew Books.
17:35 Added after 1 minute

View PostRimtu, on 28 May 2019 - 03:40 PM, said:

It would be nice if you could train crew for new vehicle but they don't forget the vehicle they drove before that...

So you could have crew member trained in let's say 5-6 tanks... but not all

 

WG answered that before and said it would take too much resource to track and remember.



Balc0ra #12 Posted 29 May 2019 - 05:28 AM

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View Postdzonis2606, on 28 May 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:

As much as I can remember, WG mentioned that they will remove penalty for retraining crew when moving to a higher tier tank within tree line.

 

Anyone remembers this ?

 

They have talked about it a few months ago. But never said they would remove it. Just explained why it's not done.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/b758uu/russian_developer_stream_qa_add_unwanted_maps_to/

 

Question 15 from that Q&A

Block Quote

 Question about crew for IS-7 forgetting how to drive IS-3. This is a technical problem. Storing information about all tanks a crew can drive will significantly increase amount of data that is needed to be stored. Database/backup costs are real and they don't see that as a positive change for now.

 

So it's basically a server storing issue. As if you double or triple the size of each profile now due to it. You need 3x the server space for it vs now. As for one profile it's not gonna be much of a difference. But when you all every single profile in the game so far... It's suddenly a fair bit more.



Kozzy #13 Posted 29 May 2019 - 08:21 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 29 May 2019 - 04:28 AM, said:

 

They have talked about it a few months ago. But never said they would remove it. Just explained why it's not done.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/b758uu/russian_developer_stream_qa_add_unwanted_maps_to/

 

Question 15 from that Q&A

 

So it's basically a server storing issue. As if you double or triple the size of each profile now due to it. You need 3x the server space for it vs now. As for one profile it's not gonna be much of a difference. But when you all every single profile in the game so far... It's suddenly a fair bit more.

 

 

I call BS on what WG are saying here.  Modern SQL/Oracle databases can be absolutely enormous and not have a noticeable impact on performance.  Also, the amount of data we are talking about is an added tank id (GUID) for each crew member.  The extra data for each tank would be hundreds of bytes to a few KB.

 

The real reason is money, that's fine - they are are a company after all but I fell they are stretching the truth here.



r00barb #14 Posted 29 May 2019 - 10:23 AM

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View PostKozzy, on 29 May 2019 - 07:21 AM, said:

I call BS on what WG are saying here.  Modern SQL/Oracle databases can be absolutely enormous and not have a noticeable impact on performance.  Also, the amount of data we are talking about is an added tank id (GUID) for each crew member.  The extra data for each tank would be hundreds of bytes to a few KB.

 

The real reason is money, that's fine - they are are a company after all but I fell they are stretching the truth here.

 

I'm with Kozzy on this, something's definitely fishy about that answer. What puzzles me is what's the major difference in gameplay terms between an IS-3 and IS-7 that would require all this additional information to be stored on a crew profile? It's not as though you'd want to drop repairs for camo on all your crew when you move them between tanks, all you need to do is change the tank qualification from a single identifier to a list - "IS-7" becomes ["IS-7", "T-10", "IS-3", etc.].

 

What else is stored on a crew profile anyway? Skills should be recorded as an adjustment to the tank's base stats, there's no reason to store individual tank details on a crew profile.



Kartoshkaya #15 Posted 29 May 2019 - 01:13 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 29 May 2019 - 08:21 AM, said:

 

 

I call BS on what WG are saying here.  Modern SQL/Oracle databases can be absolutely enormous and not have a noticeable impact on performance.  Also, the amount of data we are talking about is an added tank id (GUID) for each crew member.  The extra data for each tank would be hundreds of bytes to a few KB.

 

The real reason is money, that's fine - they are are a company after all but I fell they are stretching the truth here.

 

Well the thing is you need to join those tables. This is not about the storage space, it's about performance of indexes, wich ones can be heavily impacted by the number of records stored in each tables to join.



Kozzy #16 Posted 29 May 2019 - 01:24 PM

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View PostKartoshkaya, on 29 May 2019 - 12:13 PM, said:

 

Well the thing is you need to join those tables. This is not about the storage space, it's about performance of indexes, wich ones can be heavily impacted by the number of records stored in each tables to join.

 

A simple lookup table for each account is all you need.  That will have a few hundred rows with just two columns.  Virtually no impact on modern relational database.

Dorander #17 Posted 30 May 2019 - 02:57 PM

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View Postr00barb, on 29 May 2019 - 09:23 AM, said:

 

I'm with Kozzy on this, something's definitely fishy about that answer. What puzzles me is what's the major difference in gameplay terms between an IS-3 and IS-7 that would require all this additional information to be stored on a crew profile? It's not as though you'd want to drop repairs for camo on all your crew when you move them between tanks, all you need to do is change the tank qualification from a single identifier to a list - "IS-7" becomes ["IS-7", "T-10", "IS-3", etc.].

 

What else is stored on a crew profile anyway? Skills should be recorded as an adjustment to the tank's base stats, there's no reason to store individual tank details on a crew profile.

 

I don't get it either. Honestly I wouldn't even care about a specific skill profile per tank. All I care about is the major qualification. I'd be fine training up a few crews per nation depending on what exact skillset I want them to have, based on the playstyle of the tanks they'll be driving, but I'm getting tired of starting new crews from scratch every time I want to try out a new line and keep a few tanks along the way.

 

In a case like me it wouldn't be an income loss either, I've never paid gold for crew (re)training and I never will.



Kozzy #18 Posted 30 May 2019 - 03:49 PM

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View PostDorander, on 30 May 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

 

I don't get it either. Honestly I wouldn't even care about a specific skill profile per tank. All I care about is the major qualification. I'd be fine training up a few crews per nation depending on what exact skillset I want them to have, based on the playstyle of the tanks they'll be driving, but I'm getting tired of starting new crews from scratch every time I want to try out a new line and keep a few tanks along the way.

 

In a case like me it wouldn't be an income loss either, I've never paid gold for crew (re)training and I never will.

 

Hmm that's an interesting idea - if I've read it correctly.

 

You could have a crew that is 100% trained to, say, the Centurion Mk 1 and Centurion Mk 7/1.  They would have 100% main qualification they wouldn't be red when swapping between and they would have no penalty to main skill BUT their skills would be different for each tank?  So Tank Commander Smith could have 6th sense and Camo at 65% when driving the Centurion Mk 1 but have 6th sense and repairs at 45% when driving the Centurion Mk 7/1.  They could only skill-up on each tank individually?



misterslate #19 Posted 30 May 2019 - 05:40 PM

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View PostDorander, on 30 May 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

In a case like me it wouldn't be an income loss either, I've never paid gold for crew (re)training and I never will.

 

The problem is that hundreds, if not thousands of players do buy crews and retrain them for gold.



Dorander #20 Posted 30 May 2019 - 09:38 PM

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View Postmisterslate, on 30 May 2019 - 04:40 PM, said:

 

The problem is that hundreds, if not thousands of players do buy crews and retrain them for gold.

 

Probably, since there's millions of players. I'm just loathe to make a value judgement on that supposed loss compared to making this game less grindy and subsequently less frustrating, especially for newer players, and flat out claiming it costs too much when we don't even know the first thing about it: how many players even do.




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