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An idea for ranked battles (The OP tanks problem)


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Ey_Devastor #1 Posted 30 May 2019 - 02:08 PM

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This topic is focused on the OP tanks in the ranked battles, mostly the Obj. 907 and T95/FV4201(Chieftain). To make things clear I am NOT the owner of these tanks so thats why I have a problem (hopefully I am not alone). 

 

To the point. The ranked battles is a gamemode where you should show your skill to punch your way to the top but there is a problem. The skill sometimes doesnt matter at all. All you need is a good clan that participates in global map and you will recieve chevrons just by standing. The 907 is not that big of a problem because of the cupola but what we are supose to do againts the Chieftains ? I know it has cupola aswel but you can barely see it while the chieftain is peeking. The tank has extremely good turret, gun, dpm and overall armor making it pretty OP againts the tech tree tanks. Also with the new role system the combination of blocked and dealt damage bring this tank always to the top of the leaderboard. 

 

So my ideas to fix this problem: 

1. Exlude tanks that a basic player cant recieve so everyone have same chance in the battle (this not include the reward tanks from the missions Obj. 260 and Obj. 279e)

2. Make the tanks rentable for the duration of the season

3. Or at least create a teams that have same amount of those vehicles

 

I know that the owners of those tanks fought hard to earn them but keep them away from the gamemodes where the skill is required. (Also had an idea how would tier 8 rankeds goes) Thanks for reading and dont forget to laugh on me in the comments how I cry about it bacause I dont have them ;) peace.



pecopad #2 Posted 30 May 2019 - 02:12 PM

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Just make ammo free, or at least make it impossible to lose money in ranked, and I will gladly play tier 10...

 

Paying 50K a game to be a HP piñata, no thanks, but for free I will do it, I will even buy some Tier X's to play there.


Edited by pecopad, 30 May 2019 - 02:13 PM.


BlackBloodBandit #3 Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:00 AM

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View PostEy_Devastor, on 30 May 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

This topic is focused on the OP tanks in the ranked battles, mostly the Obj. 907 and T95/FV4201(Chieftain). To make things clear I am NOT the owner of these tanks so thats why I have a problem (hopefully I am not alone). 

 

To the point. The ranked battles is a gamemode where you should show your skill to punch your way to the top but there is a problem. The skill sometimes doesnt matter at all. All you need is a good clan that participates in global map and you will recieve chevrons just by standing. The 907 is not that big of a problem because of the cupola but what we are supose to do againts the Chieftains ? I know it has cupola aswel but you can barely see it while the chieftain is peeking. The tank has extremely good turret, gun, dpm and overall armor making it pretty OP againts the tech tree tanks. Also with the new role system the combination of blocked and dealt damage bring this tank always to the top of the leaderboard. 

 

So my ideas to fix this problem: 

1. Exlude tanks that a basic player cant recieve so everyone have same chance in the battle (this not include the reward tanks from the missions Obj. 260 and Obj. 279e)

2. Make the tanks rentable for the duration of the season

3. Or at least create a teams that have same amount of those vehicles

 

I know that the owners of those tanks fought hard to earn them but keep them away from the gamemodes where the skill is required. (Also had an idea how would tier 8 rankeds goes) Thanks for reading and dont forget to laugh on me in the comments how I cry about it bacause I dont have them ;) peace.

First you complain about 907, then you say it's not a big deal.. :facepalm:

 

1 not much chance to have an Object 260 or something on an account like mine, with so few amount of battles, so I wouldn't call that "same chance in the battle"

3 is a must in my opinion. I've had several times that my team got only 2 of that kind of tanks and enemy gets 5. Add a few monkeys that either have no clue how to play at all/redline campers and it's instant loss.



tajj7 #4 Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:17 AM

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Wg could just balance them, they are reward tanks, not premiums, they can and should be nerfed. 

ValkyrionX #5 Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:26 AM

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View PostEy_Devastor, on 30 May 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

This topic is focused on the OP tanks in the ranked battles, mostly the Obj. 907 and T95/FV4201(Chieftain). To make things clear I am NOT the owner of these tanks so thats why I have a problem (hopefully I am not alone). 

 

To the point. The ranked battles is a gamemode where you should show your skill to punch your way to the top but there is a problem. The skill sometimes doesnt matter at all. All you need is a good clan that participates in global map and you will recieve chevrons just by standing. The 907 is not that big of a problem because of the cupola but what we are supose to do againts the Chieftains ? I know it has cupola aswel but you can barely see it while the chieftain is peeking. The tank has extremely good turret, gun, dpm and overall armor making it pretty OP againts the tech tree tanks. Also with the new role system the combination of blocked and dealt damage bring this tank always to the top of the leaderboard. 

 

So my ideas to fix this problem: 

1. Exlude tanks that a basic player cant recieve so everyone have same chance in the battle (this not include the reward tanks from the missions Obj. 260 and Obj. 279e)

2. Make the tanks rentable for the duration of the season

3. Or at least create a teams that have same amount of those vehicles

 

I know that the owners of those tanks fought hard to earn them but keep them away from the gamemodes where the skill is required. (Also had an idea how would tier 8 rankeds goes) Thanks for reading and dont forget to laugh on me in the comments how I cry about it bacause I dont have them ;) peace.

 

rental tanks?

 

NO THANKS

 

they did it in the past with RAMPAGE mode and it proved to be a failure as even inexperienced players , who have never played a tier X game , can access modes that are too high for their capabilities

 

absolutely NO



Geno1isme #6 Posted 31 May 2019 - 10:36 AM

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All reward tanks should be completely excluded from this mode.

eldrak #7 Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:00 AM

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View PostValkyrionX, on 31 May 2019 - 09:26 AM, said:

 

rental tanks?

 

NO THANKS

 

they did it in the past with RAMPAGE mode and it proved to be a failure as even inexperienced players , who have never played a tier X game , can access modes that are too high for their capabilities

 

absolutely NO

 

The ones inexperienced at tier X quickly disappeared after they realised the costs of playing tier X.

 

Largest failures of Rampage has been adressed: Too good price (OP T-22) at the end, no curfew (made rigging easy during low server pop) .



tajj7 #8 Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:07 AM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 31 May 2019 - 09:36 AM, said:

All reward tanks should be completely excluded from this mode.

 

Restrictions on reward tanks being used in various modes makes those reward tanks rather pointless, seen the same thing argued that CW reward tanks should not be allowed in randoms, its a pretty nonsense argument.

 

It just smacks of a 'I don't have it, so no one should' attitude.

 

Just simply these tanks need balancing properly, no one is going to turn around and complain about M60s, T95E6s, 121bs etc. being used in randoms and ranked, because they are not that good.

 

Even the 260, which is good, is not that good and is not really much different from what you can get in the tech tress (i.e 277 and IS7).

 

Very simply the 279e, T95/FV4201 and Obj. 907 are just too good currently, along with the 430U. Those 4 tanks represent the most commonly seen and most successful tanks in ranked, and it is not because 3 of them are reward vehicles, its just because they are too strong and are too well rounded with not enough weaknesses. 

 



Balc0ra #9 Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:23 AM

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The issue then is that if you put all on the same ground, and add rentals for everyone on such tanks. Then that's what everyone will play.

 

View Posttajj7, on 31 May 2019 - 10:17 AM, said:

Wg could just balance them, they are reward tanks, not premiums, they can and should be nerfed. 

 

Tell that to WG about the 907. I know it's mostly just played by good players, thus the stats vs other tier X meds will be higher to get comparable data vs say the T-62A etc. But still. 



Geno1isme #10 Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:28 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 May 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

Just simply these tanks need balancing properly, no one is going to turn around and complain about M60s, T95E6s, 121bs etc. being used in randoms and ranked, because they are not that good.

 

It's not just about balancing, but also the crew aspect. In a 907 one can cherry-pick the best crewmembers from up to 16 tanks at no cost, which is a significant advantage compared to people that actually have to assign a dedicated crew to each of their T10 tanks. Similar for 260, 279 and VK72, and to a lesser degree the Chieftain.


Edited by Geno1isme, 31 May 2019 - 11:30 AM.


tajj7 #11 Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:36 AM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 31 May 2019 - 10:28 AM, said:

 

It's not just about balancing, but also the crew aspect. In a 907 one can cherry-pick the best crewmembers from up to 16 tanks at no cost, which is a significant advantage compared to people that actually have to assign a dedicated crew to each of their T10 tanks. Similar for 260, 279 and VK72, and to a lesser degree the Chieftain.

 

People should have 3-5 skills by the time they get to tier 10 and if they don't they are doing something wrong, beyond that you really don't need many crew skills as they don't make much difference, especially for heavies who don't need camo and generally have more crew members so have crew skills distributed amongst usually 5+ people, like sit awareness on the radio operator. 

Japualtah #12 Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:42 AM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 May 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

 

Restrictions on reward tanks being used in various modes makes those reward tanks rather pointless, seen the same thing argued that CW reward tanks should not be allowed in randoms, its a pretty nonsense argument.

 

 

You call nonsense what others call logic mate.

 

It doesn't matter whether equipment is better or worse, if it's designed for a mode it can only be used in that mode.

That's how it goes in all PvP games worth their salt.



tajj7 #13 Posted 31 May 2019 - 11:54 AM

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View PostJapualtah, on 31 May 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

 

You call nonsense what others call logic mate.

 

It doesn't matter whether equipment is better or worse, if it's designed for a mode it can only be used in that mode.

That's how it goes in all PvP games worth their salt.

 

its not logic at all. 

 

Why would anyone bother to play modes for reward tanks if those rewards were not usable in the whole game, when ALL these modes essentially play the same way and use the same rules as the rest of the game.

 

There is no difference in how ranked works, compared to how randoms works, compared to how CWs work.

 

Its two teams of 15 v 15 players, in tier 10 tanks, playing on the same maps, using the same penetration, damage, armour, camo, movement etc. mechanics. Until this season, the same XP and credit system as well. Same in game objectives as well, kill an enemies or cap the base. 

 

The only differences are in reality cosmetic and post game, the whole ranked thing has very little do with gameplay, you still shoot tanks and play as you do randoms. 

 

And the reward tanks are not designed for that mode, they are rewards for that mode, they are designed for the game in general. 

 

I mean the 279e and 260 are earned in randoms, they are designed for the whole game, as are all the other tanks, you get your Super Conqueror or E100 or whatever by playing randoms in the main, so by your 'logic' none of the tier 10 tanks should be able to be used in ranked and none of the tier 8 tanks should be used in Frontlines because they were earned in randoms.

 

Top logic :rolleyes:

 

Its a nonsense argument that is spawned of jealousy because people have not earned those tanks, largely through lack of effort. 


Edited by tajj7, 31 May 2019 - 11:55 AM.


demon_tank #14 Posted 31 May 2019 - 12:06 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 May 2019 - 09:17 AM, said:

Wg could just balance them, they are reward tanks, not premiums, they can and should be nerfed. 

They should but they probably wont.

 

View PostGeno1isme, on 31 May 2019 - 09:36 AM, said:

All reward tanks should be completely excluded from this mode.

Then i want the 430U and a couple of other standard tanks gone as well.

Plus im collecting SirFoch tears so  idont want to stop playing my Chieftain.


Edited by demon_tank, 31 May 2019 - 12:07 PM.


shikaka9 #15 Posted 31 May 2019 - 12:12 PM

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12 points goes to

 

View Postpecopad, on 30 May 2019 - 01:12 PM, said:

Just make ammo free, 

 



BrinklyWollox #16 Posted 31 May 2019 - 12:12 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 May 2019 - 10:54 AM, said:

Why would anyone bother to play modes for reward tanks if those rewards were not usable in the whole game, when ALL these modes essentially play the same way and use the same rules as the rest of the game.

 

Why would anyone bother to play modes for reward tanks if those rewards weren't strong tanks? If the Object 907 was no better than an Object 140 (admittedly that's still pretty good), how many players would stop bothering with clan wars?



Cobra6 #17 Posted 31 May 2019 - 12:44 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 May 2019 - 09:17 AM, said:

Wg could just balance them, they are reward tanks, not premiums, they can and should be nerfed. 

 

But then no-one will play CW anymore as very little players want to sacrifice 3 full weeks of time for a lousy reward.

 

But yeah, a nerf would not be a bad idea even though my Obj907 seems to miss all that armour everyone is complaining about. I must have a fauly Chinese knock off tank.

 

Cobra 6



Japualtah #18 Posted 31 May 2019 - 01:48 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 May 2019 - 11:54 AM, said:

 

I mean the 279e and 260 are earned in randoms, they are designed for the whole game.

 

That's nitpicking mate :playing:

 

We all perfectly well know those tanks, especially the 279e, are not meant to be obtained by everybody.

Now, if you allege Ranked is not meant to be played by everybody, we can agree.

 

As we probably will agree that any kind of competition means fighting on equal grounds.

Unless we support Lance Armstrong or Carl Lewis, of course.

 



tajj7 #19 Posted 31 May 2019 - 01:48 PM

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View Postr00barb, on 31 May 2019 - 11:12 AM, said:

 

Why would anyone bother to play modes for reward tanks if those rewards weren't strong tanks? If the Object 907 was no better than an Object 140 (admittedly that's still pretty good), how many players would stop bothering with clan wars?

 

View PostCobra6, on 31 May 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

 

But then no-one will play CW anymore as very little players want to sacrifice 3 full weeks of time for a lousy reward.

 

But yeah, a nerf would not be a bad idea even though my Obj907 seems to miss all that armour everyone is complaining about. I must have a fauly Chinese knock off tank.

 

Cobra 6

 

There is strong, and then there is OP.

 

I mean WZ-111-5A is strong, but then there is T95/FV4201 -

 

Posted Image

 

I mean people complain about the Super Conq being too good, but then the T95 takes the Super Conq, makes it mobile like a med, gives it more alpha and a better turret. Its a bit absurd.

 

Also the 907 was IIRC a slightly worse Obj. 140, loads of people still did CWs and chose it, it was hardly a bad tank and there is prestige/special element that people go for, like the rarity. 

 

The tanks can still be competitive without being this good. The 907 just needs that silly side armour buff reversing, it was totally unneeded, the t95 I have no idea how to nerf it but it needs one and would still be massively strong.

 

And the 279e needs to go back to its original form, with the weakspot and far worse gun, absolute absurd decision by WG to buff that tank after only like a few hundred people had played it. 

 

View PostJapualtah, on 31 May 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

That's nitpicking mate :playing:

 

We all perfectly well know those tanks, especially the 279e, are not meant to be obtained by everybody.

Now, if you allege Ranked is not meant to be played by everybody, we can agree.

 

As we probably will agree that any kind of competition means fighting on equal grounds.

Unless we support Lance Armstrong or Carl Lewis, of course.

 

 

It's not nitpicking, its the crux of your argument, and who gets them is irrelevant, everyone has access to them and the chance to get them. 

 

Like I said by your logic no tank earned or obtained by playing randoms should be in ranked and no one would have any tanks to use. 

 

 


Edited by tajj7, 31 May 2019 - 01:50 PM.


BrinklyWollox #20 Posted 31 May 2019 - 02:12 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 31 May 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

Also the 907 was IIRC a slightly worse Obj. 140, loads of people still did CWs and chose it, it was hardly a bad tank and there is prestige/special element that people go for, like the rarity.

 

I agree with your wider point about strong tanks but there's still a number of players now who want a 907 because it's been over-buffed and those players weren't saying much when the 140 was the stronger tank. I'm pretty sure I remember reading multiple threads about buffing the 907 for exactly that reason!

 

There'll always be people who'll play clan wars regardless of the rewards because they want the challenge of it, it's a different mode, it's a more balanced mode (i.e. all the same tier), tactics can be applied much easier than in randoms, etc. That doesn't change the fact that more players want the buffed 907, which is the point I was making earlier.

 

FWIW I think that if you're prepared to put in the time and effort, you should get a decent reward for it. But then I don't play clan wars or ranked or much stuff at higher tiers so it's not really something I encounter regularly.






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